Entertainer Archive
Thread: I am TIRED of hearing that AFK Macro doesn't hurt other entertainers
I see this as a simple fix. If the afk or auto afk flagis on then the action whether Dance or playing music stops. You can not be afk and do any action simple or complex. You have to come out of afk to do any action. I have seen people hunting with afk on. LOL. AFK on should lock all commands so no action can be done until afk flag is off. this will work with the auto afk. It would stop the micros too auto afk is based off key stroke or mouse movement of clickes. But I do not know how hard it is to program but that sounds like an easy fix.
Snowloc
On Bria and other servers.
Chessack, I think your making a huge assumption. I couldnt honestly care if an entertainer is afk or not, I dont tip em if they are, but if theyre afk I do the same thing. Sitting in the cantina for 30 minutes is called downtime, and in every mmo ive played this far downtime is when i take care of chores or odd and end things around the apartment/house. *shrug*
I dont think afk peeps are hurting your profession, because I think a lot of people dont care honestly.I think theyre hurting the roleplayers yes, and something should be done, but if you want your profession to have more bite then you need to do more than heal mind, because I dont need someone engaged in conversation to do that, and even if all the non conversationalist get frustrated and quit theres always going to be someone to take care of it. The ironic thing here is that one of my friends I was planning on dancing/music'ing (if thats a word)with is quitting the business I think now, and Im probably going to ditch the skills unless I get a second account, I have nothing to gain/lose here, and Im in full support of increasing an entertainers, espically non afk entertainers usefullness. Doesnt anyone hav any suggestions other than a hammer?
to moonlilly, you can't shut down peoples arguments by shaking your head, and you've done nothing to counter some very good points. Waving your hand isnt going to make it go away or justify your frankly rude and bitter comments. I doubt anyone in this discussion is your real enemy and yet you treat them as such.
You spend a half hour in a cantina?
Try watching/listening to masters. Oh wait, they've all left because a cantina full of LAMErs who 'aren't doing any harm' is a BORING place to play in.
The people that *I* heal are ready to leave in about 3 mins, max. What are you doing to spend a half hour in there, going in with 3k battle fatigue and watching some noob dancing basic in her underwear? 
Master Dancers and Musicians actually give a mind buff, I think it lasts for something like 15 minutes, depending on how long you watch. There's a whole thread on this in the dance forum.
I'm sorry that you find the cantina boring but some of us like it -- or we would, if the LAMErs weren't ruining it. You complain about the lousy atmosphere in cantinas. Guess who contributes to that? Yup... LAMErs.
If the cantina were full of active and social RPers, it would be a much more enjoyable place to hang out for everyone. But ooops! The LAMErs have chased all the social RPers away.
C
You are right. It sucks when the entire group has to be punished for the sins of a few.
However, the fact remains, nerfs would not occur unless people abused something.
The same is true with the AFK macro situation. When a few people did it here and there it was an odd curiosity. Now that it is making the cantinas in most of the large venues unpalatable to large chunks of people (and you're not correct, it's NOT just roleplayers -- lots of grinders feel like they will only tip other grinders who are at keyboard just like they are, even though there is no RP interest at all for them), it might be getting to the point where something needs to be done.
Again, there is the unassailable logic of the long term view of the game. For now, for right now, in the short term, "LAME" types (Long-term Afk Macro Entertainers) might seem not to be harming and even to be helping ("hey, there's no one else there to heal me so I will take what I can get"). But this is a short-term thing. Eventually those LAMErs are going to hit Master. What then? Oh, a few might stick around, but the vast, VAST majority of them are going to move on to something else. Why? They have absolutely zero invested in the class, so why keep playing it? Their only interest is the grind, and now that is over, so it is time to find something else to grind in. I have seen this over and over again. After all the LAMErs are gone, that leaves only one type of entertainer who might be sticking around in the cantina for the long term, for many months -- us, the dedicated performers who do this for the love of it not the grind and the title.
Here's the problem -- if the LAMErs drive the dedicated performers to small, out of the way places, and eventually even out of those, into another class entirely out of sheer frustration, then who will be left for the long term, after the LAMErs finish levelling up and leave the cantinas? Answer: No one.
It's in the interest of every player, on every server, to see to it that the dedicated perfomers are kept as fat and happy being dedicated performers as they can possibly be. In the long run, you're going to need us. The LAMErs don't give two hoots about your healing, not really. Oh they might say it and even think it, but the bottom line is when their grind is over they will vanish like so much Jawa juice. And if you've already allowed the dedicatd performers to be driven off, that leaves zero performers behind. What, you think the LAMErs are going to sacrifice grind time in another profession for you, when they don't need healing XP any more? Ha! They won't... they've alraedy proven their selfishness with their "I'm AFK macroing and *BLEEP* you!" attitude. You think now that they're masters suddenly they will grow a generosity gene? Keep dreaming.
No, no... the LAMErs won't help you in the long run. The dedicated performers are your only hpe in the long run. It's simple logic.
C
Here's the point, though - If the ability to macro is removed from the game, this will encourage people to use third-part macro programs. Which leads to *real* cheating.
From a game design standpoint, any action that is simple and repetitive enough that it can be automated should have an in-game mechanic to automate it. Therefore the answer is NOT to prevent macroing, or to stop AFKMs from getting XP. The answer is to insert a game mechanic that rewards those who are working at their profession, or to add complexity and detail to entertaing to the point where it cannot be automated - but this should NOT be pointless dialogs that force us to click every x minutes for no good reason.
I personally don't have a big problem with people who macro. If they're just doing it to make their way to the top so they can achieve something, then they'll be gone soon enough. Otherwise, they're probably doing it for the same reason I did - to get past the boring stuff so they can go have fun with the profession. I mean, come on, how much enjoyment can you get out of playing starwars1 for the 200th time?
I guess my point is, eliminating macros or putting in countermeasures will not solve the greater problem - Entertaining is easily automated, and as long as it remains that way, many people will find a way to do it. Macroing is a powerful and useful feature of the game and it should not be damaged because of this.
Less 'skilled' dancers share in the healing exp as long as they're grouped with the masters. Which happens as long as the group leader has a pair and boots the LAMErs as I, personally, won't help them gain exp.
I have gone to Lok to dance before thinking that the combat types there would be glad to have someone who would get them back out onto the field quickly. Want to know what happened? A large group of people came in and one of them started dancing basic1. The entire group then chose to watch that person. So if you don't want to spend a half hour there, maybe you should get your butt off of the entertainer boards and start educating your combat brethren. I still go dance on 'advanced' planets but I'm getting close to stopping because people, when given the choice, will STILL use their lousy novice entertainer skills instead of getting a fast heal and a mind buff. I didn't go to Lok with tips in mind, I thought it would be helpful to the combat types. Apparently, watching someone with the most basic entertainer skills is fine for them. /shrug their choice
Heres how you AFK dancers are effecting me.
Today, I went into a cantina. There were two people there, one AFK wearing the tag, one not. The AFK one was standing right in front of the cantina door, at the base of the steps. I joined up with the non AFK one.
Someone comes in. Me and the other dancer are both almost out of action. The person that comes in starts watching the AFK person, and tosses a couple heals on them. Out of action, me and the other dancer are forced to stop. Finally rested up we start again. The person visiting finally stops watching the AFK and watches us instead, after the AFK person's macro had them stop and sit down.
As to masters not being in other cantinas.. Now that I'm close to master dancer, I tend to go to less crowded places. I just don't want to deal with all the AFK people, the creature handlers, all the faction pets that people crowd into big city cantinas. Therefore I go to the smaller places. I tried Lok once, but it was late at night and I never saw a single body for an hour. Perhaps people in those far away places should add some entertainers for their friends. If they've got a group needing healing, it's cheaper to pay the entertainer to come out there than to send everyone there somewhere to be healed. I would gladly visit any of the advanced planets if my travel expenses were paid.
thornz0 wrote:
to moonlilly, you can't shut down peoples arguments by shaking your head, and you've done nothing to counter some very good points.
Thornz0, I'll have to disagree with you. I supported my argument against afking macroing just fine in my first post. I mentioned a number of reasons why it shouldn't be allowed, what harm it does, and why it's unfair to players who are willing to actually play the game rather than build a character while they're afk.
You say I've not countered some very good points that have been made in support of afk macroing? Which good points are those exactly? Would that be the, "I want to keep being able tomacro my character skills while I'm away from my computer! And if you don't agree with methen I thinkyou're just a bigwhiner!", point that some are making? Cuz I think that one's a little weak. In fact I haven't seen a single good point madein support of allowingafk macroing to continue at all.In fact,I think it's laughable that you suggest that the subject requires thatanyoneconstruct a wellthought out argument against the notionof playersmacroing up theircharacter skills while they're away from their computers busy doing something else.None the less,Iclearly have already taken the time to construct such an argumentwith regard tohow afk macroingnegativelyimpacts entertainers in SWG.
The bottom line is, theafk macroing up of character skills in any online game I've ever heard ofhas always been frowned upon by both the majority of players and the makers of the game. That you and a few others are unable to see or understand the whys and wherefores of it really doesn't matter much in the scheme of things. This thread is mostly about venting. It'sfrustrated players, who want toPLAY an entertainer,venting about all those lifeless AFKentertainers who completely undermine what the whole profession is about. And in some small way it's about telling the dev's that we'd really like something to be done about all this sooner rather than later. There's no doubt in my mind that the dev's are already aware of the problem and in fact do see afk macroing as a problem, not a game feature. So it's really only a matter of time before this squeeky wheel gets the needed grease.
As to my being rude?Well, shucks. What can I say?I think chronicafk entertainers taking up space in the center of a cantinaare rude. I thinklifeless band members whoare, for hours on end, doing nothing but leaving their charactersto play or dance that singledefault sound or move, while they continue to leech fatigue and wound healing experience, are rude. I think band leaders who leave their band in the lurch by going afk for long periods of time, without the common curtesty of passing the lead to someone else,are rude. I think band leaders who refuse to kick the dead weight out of a full band, allowing their afk friends to continue torun their macros and gain great group experience, while they turn live players away, are rude. I thinkfellowpostersin this forum who arefond oftaking advantage ofafk skill gains but are unable to offer valid reasons as to why it should be allowed to continue, so they insteadcall those who disagree with them whiners, are rude. And I don't feel I owe any ofthem a politeness.
I would suggest everyone who has a problem with AFK entertainers use /bug to report this. Include specific details of how this is causing you a problem. Stuff like I put in my last post.