Entertainer Archive

i fail to see what is wrong with entertainers getting exp while afk or artisans collecting resourses while afk......these are the most boring things in the game and to force someone to watch a screen doing so is abusive. regarding tips, i only tip entertainers who are not afk.

welp, i gave what i think is a considerate and viable suggestion and its just ignored by whining and complaining. Im done, i have nothing to gain here and most peeps want to b*tch more than offer some considerate discussion

good luck resolving your issues. Sorry to see so many willing to screw others without even trying to explore alternatives though.

and i try to watch the non afk entertainers

Well, I think Waho summed it up perfectly. Thanks Waho.

As for me and my AFK... I am not actually one of the AFK entertainers you are all so open to complain about. I have spent perhap 95% or more of the time I gained exp as a entertainer at my keyboard. Yes, I have walked away a few times, I think the longest was 15 minutes (though one night I fell asleep). I had to do something and did not think it mattered so much, still don't. Again, that isless than 5% of the time AFK. I enjoy the music and hitting buttons to play around with it. I have never shut off my auto afk, don't even know how. Wouldn't if I could. I don't wish to try and fool anyone... if I am afk, I am afk, plain and simple.

But, I will support the other players who do not wish to play thier game as I do. Let them play anyway they want as long as it is not harmful to any other player. I see many of you saying it is but I do not see it. I see that portion of you wishing only to impose upon others how you think the game should be played. My attempted methods at making my points earlier, however good or bad, did what I wanted. It illustrated that whatever I say, there is alway the other side of the coin and one could see it from as well. There will always be two sides. Your way is not always the right way and people need to be more tolerent of what other people wish to do as well. Again, my hats off to Waho,

Lastly, AFK as an entertainer is not an exploit. It is an game mechanism. Not one AFK entertainer is going to gain a lick of exp at healing unless some other person gives it to them by watching, thus, using the persons skills. I dont know how to macro but I think if macro'ing the.... what ever that fancy stuff is called that makes playing the tunes fun.. that does up your music skill so maybe, yeah, that could be viewed as an exploit but still, I could care less. If that's how they want to do it, so be it.

'nough said, I'm just goin to play, have fun, and let those that wish to get all bent out of shape about it get bent out of shape.

Laters

Ok, here's my take on the whole situation, for what it's worth.

I macro all the time, whether I'm in my house, PA hall, or cantina. When I'm away from the public eye, I just let it sit there and make what little experience it does while I read a book, or watch a DvD or surf the web, always still at the computer looking for /tells. While I'm in the cantina, I macro as well, but it's only so that I don't have to keep hitting my flourish buttons while I actually ENTERTAIN people. I'll chat with folks, greet and smile and wave, and anything else that I can. My macros are set in a specifically chosen way so that I can change the tunes, flourish in specific orders and at specific times, and generally give a better performance than if I had to sit and hit hotkeys. And all the while, I'm interacting with patrons, making it a personal experience for them and for myself.

I don't see where macroes are the issue. They're a tool to be used like all others. It's the AFK that's the issue. Does the macro make it possible to 'exploit' the system? Of course they do, and that's bad. But getting rid of the tool because it can cause damage is just ludicrous. I'm all in favor of adding a pop-up window that queries your character and must be clicked to continue, as long as it doesn't interfere with the timing of my macroes

I personally love the idea mentioned earlier (sorry, forgot who suggested it...) about 'An audience member is enjoying your show. Flourish 4, 6 and 1 for 50 cr' (or something similar). I think this is a GREAT idea, for it leaves the macro 'tool' in place, but gets rid of the AFK problem. I also think that if it's NOT clicked,'An audience member starts to boo you!',and you get less (or even no)experience =)

As for someone's statement about being able to make combat experience while AFK, this is considered by SOE to be an exploit, and they've stated so repeatedly, and also tried to change this in a lot of high-spawn areas. Why is this considered an exploit, but AFK musicianship or dancing is not? That's just the thing; just like being able to make experience in other things while being AFK, and although SOE has never stated one way or the other to my knowledge, AFK dancing and playing SHOULD be an exploit, and I'm sure once they get through with their large plate of other things that they're working on, they'll rectify it.

One last point, near and dear to everyone; money. A lot of non-entertainers take the stance that since there's no risk involved, entertainers shouldn't make good creds, because with risk comes reward (Yeah, try telling that to someone in the military, hehe). I'm almost positive thata lot ofentertainers nowadays IRL make a HELL of a lot of money, and the only thing they risk is the paparazzi. Police Officers, Firemen, Public School Teachers, Postal Workers (just kidding) are very low paying jobs when you look at the risks involved, but more often than not people do them out of a sense of altruism. Risk does NOT equal reward; in MMORPGs, TIME equals reward. Just because I'm an entertainer shouldn't make my time any less valuable than a combat type's time.

Well, I've gone on long enough. In summary, in case anyone actually made it this far, Long live the macro, death to AFK'ers!

Well Cheessack,

I too just got off from playing some tonight. I ended up in a Club, joined a band with a few dancers and guess what, of the 8 members, about 5 of them where afk often, 3 constantly. I was not as were 2 others.

So what did I do, oh my gosh, over half the entertainers are afk, I suppose I should just bail? No, I played how I wanted to, let them do their thing, everyone got exp, I got some tips, interacted with the crowd, and had a good time. The afk dummer also made the band sound a lot better then when he was not there.

Point is, it is perspective. If you want it to bother you, fine, let it, but it is your attitude that is presenting the trouble, your attitude towards afk entertainers. It is not the entertainers that are afk. It has absolutely no control over whether "I" have a good time or not. "I" have control over that. And in your above situation, try the ignore option if you don't want to hear the person. Take a little initiative with the tool you do have and do go demaining nerf, nerf, nerf...

Night peeps!

I agree 100% Mojo. It's not the ablility to create music or dance macros thatis the problem. I think that's a great feature. In as much as I like to just go ahead and wing it while I'm playing music, I also like to create tunes that I can keep and create macros for. It's nice to be able to share these macros with other musicians as well. This problem is 100% about afk macroing. Not the ablility to create helpful macros that can be used to save music and dance routines on.

It's almost amusing how unwilling you players who are creating your entertainers while you're away from your computers refuse to see how what you do negatively effects others around you.

I think, as has already been suggested, sending /bug reports when you're effected by afkers is a good idea. I also think it's a good idea to be the sort of band leader that you should be whenever you're able to inside the game. Be vocal in your group chat, suggesting that thosewho are going to go afk step off to the side to do so. Don't be afraid to boot afkers from the group. Particularly if you're in a full group and you need to make room for players who are actually among the living.

There's no reason whatsoever that a player should have any expectations that they'll be able to join a band and continue to gain experience after they've gone afk.

Everyone needs to go afk once in awhile. As an entertaineryou shoulddo theright thing.Mention to your group that you're going afk for a moment or two and then move off to the side while you do so. Have a seat in one of the chairs or pull up a floor. If you have the group lead and need to go afk, pass the group to someone else before you leave. Five seconds after a leader goes afk another player may walk in and want an invite to the band. It happens all the time.

I'm sure some in this thread will see this post of mine, where I'm explaining common courtesies as another instance where I'm trying to force a play style onto other players. Well, that's ok. I'm not expecting you chronic afkers to suddenly understand thecourtesies that should be involved here. Not when you can't even begin to understand how discourtiously you've been behaving all along.

I'd like to begin by saying this: Do NOT compare Medics and Doctors to Entertainers. The two do coexist quite well together, BOTH benefit from the experience each gets. The difference, the massive difference between Medics and Entertainers is this -- Medics heal specific people voluntarily. They have to be present to do so. As such, they get tips for taking the time to pay special attention to people. Medics make TONS more money than Entertainers do.

Medics do not require money from Entertainers. Medics who desire money may head back to the Medical Center where it's quiet, boring, and silent to wait for the wounded who adore them and treat them quite well, because where there are large groups of entertainers there are also large groups of people earning no money because they are frankly interchangable for all automatically providing a valuable service to anyone who happens to drop by.

My character took up both Entertainer and Medic skills (as well as every other skill excluding only Brawler) to experience them all so I could get a better idea of what would make the game enjoyable for me. I know of what I speak.

To me, this arguement isn't about tips or money. It's about respect. Medics are respected and treated with consideration why? Because they can choose to withold their services from the 12 year old kid spewing profanity at them. Entertainers may stop performing so as not to heal offending parties - but in doing so, they penalize people who are at the very least able to be inoffensive. This might have some impact on the behavior of those requiring healing of the Mind/BF wounds...save that the AFK Entertainers remain entertaining.

The immature brats and "ub3r l33t" players can simply switch their attention to someone who doesn't have to deal with the less pleasant aspects of entertaining. This means there is no reason for jerks to at least reign in their misbehavior long enough to get their wounds healed.

My main grip with AFK macro entertainers: when my group leader goes LD, more often than not someone who went AFK hours ago ends up as the new group leader. This is frustrating in the extreme. In such situations, 5 of 7 people are AFK, and suddenly those who are left are worried about the loss of experience if they start their own group, as well as neither one wanting the responsibility of being the new group leader.

I like the /deny idea. I like it a lot. People who intend to use it to grief tips out of patrons will likely find that these same patrons will be more likely to tip those who don't /deny indiscriminantly (...sp?). I'd not tip anyone who demands payment up front, just as I elect not to tip those who have pets named PleaseTip or TipMe, people who have a macro that reminds people that tipping is what Entertainers live on, or people who complain about a lack of tips without resorting to a begging macro. I also don't tip Medics who whine about getting no tips from the Entertainers they're healing, and yes, I have crossed such Medics in Cantinas before.



My own ideas regarding a "fix"?

Players should not have the option to turn off any time out which leads up to an AFK flag. If you're AFK for 15+ minutes, you automatically get an AFK flag. Why? BECAUSE YOU ARE AFK.

If you're AFK, you should not be in line to become Group Leader.

If you dislike AFK Entertainers:

Active group leaders need to take the initiative. If you don't like the way your group members are being treated, start disbanding AFKers. If they come back and want a reinvite so they can get even easier experience than they were already getting AFK, inform them that they are welcome to rejoin only if the go into corners or side rooms whenever they AFK. If they fail to do so once in your group again, kick'em again.

Let people know before/when they join the group that AFK tags in the center of the room are not acceptable and will lead to puntage from the group. If experience isn't easy as heck for AFK Entertainers,perhaps they'll rethink their exp grinding strategy.

If this is about money then there's not much else that can be said. You have Mission terminals that come with a handy Refresh button. Use it to find the Cantina you're already at. Pick up another profession while you're at it.

(Any rambling, nonsensical words, phrases, sentences or paragraphs are the sole responsibility of Insomnia and Lack Of Sleep)

Now explain to me, Baracu... how does someone doing this kind of stupid thing NOT harm other players, exactly? Are you really going to sit there and insist that I was not harmed?

---

You were. However, you were harmed by a player who insisted on yelling. You weren't harmed by AFK and you weren't harmed by the fact that it was a twilek/wookie/rodian/whatever. You don't blame it on the gender, race, dress or gamestate. Blame it on the person. Rude behaviour is a problem in itself. I don't think an AFK macroer would be a problem to you if s/he did it in a backroom or even her own house, quietly.

If I get insulted by a male non-AFK human, I don't blame it on the fact he was male or human or non-AFK either. He's an **edit** and will be as any race, gender or gamestate the game allows.

But by the person being there AFK with the macro running, you have absolutely no recourse. No way to talk to them, and tell them it is bothering you.. Or to /duel them or cuss them off if it's your style.. You either sit there and take it or leave. And if all the cantinas are like this.... Where is there left to go?

Yes, it is the person being rude.. But being AFK and allowing them to macro for xp/tips/whatever during this time just allows them more incentive to be rude. Take away the incentive and they'll go somewhere else, or even better log out so people who actually are at their computer can play.

What I'd love to see is something that automatically disconnects people who are AFK for a half hour, or an hour, or something.

hummm, so if there is an entertainer, not-AFK, and is mouthing off a bunch of crap thatYOU don't want to listen to, andYOUbelieve it is beyondYOUR ability to simply ignore that person, it looks like YOUR saying the resolve is to be rude back and divulgeYOUR dislike.

Now, if I were a one of those people... and do not care what YOU think and wish to conduct myself as I am, regardless ofYOUR like or dislike for it, I don't have to be AFK to shutYOU down. I can just ignore YOU instead, plain and simple. Again, YOUR attempt to have itYOUR way fails.

Ignore them!!! then YOU do have it YOUR way.

Furthermore, you all have choices. If you do not want to group with AFK players, don't. If you do not want to listen to AFK player, don't. You have choices now totake those actions but no, several of you seem to think, and I say it again, thatYOUR way is the only way. You want something that would blantantlydeny another player a way ofgainingbenefit from the game mechanics(not exploits, no where has anyone acknowledge this is an exploit)because that's what you want. That's how you want the game to be. Why?Because you're selfish and are only thinking of me, me, me... Give me an advantage over other entertainer who do not invest in the time like I do... This is exactly the kind of attitude I see inmuch of these complainers of AFK entertainers. You fail to see thatYOU do have an advantage already... you're the one getting the tips (normally), not the AFK person... you're the one getting the full enjoyment from the role by doing your thing and interacting, not the AFK person... The group of 8 entertainers I was in last night with 5 AFK at different times, I did not hear anyone complaining. The fact of the matter is, the EXP was better the more we had in the group, AFK or not. I'll be selfish now and say, ME, ME, ME, I got more EXP that way, still could interact with the crowd, etc, and have fun, etc. Had the 3 non-AFK people booted the 5 AFK people out of the group?... To have done that, who suffers? ME. I suppose I can be selfish too. I get to play how I want and I get to let the other do what they want... This is exactly what I want, me, me, me, for everyone tohave choices and play how they wish. (gee, I feel so ashamed.)

Ok, now I am getting a bit sarcastic so I will stop. Bottom line remains though... the only harm coming to any entertainer is due to thier own attitudes, not the AFK entertainer. Granted, if the group leader is AFK and someone else wants to join in, that's a bit difficults but you still have a choice... you can leave the group, and only group with players that are not AFK. The AFK player accepts that risk by not being there. YOU have that choice. I whould suggest you take that approach instead of dictate to everyone else how they have to play the game.

LONG LIVE THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!!

"Bottom line remains though... the only harm coming to any entertainer is due to thier own attitudes, not the AFK entertainer."

So it was my attitude that people come in, see the AFK entertainer standing in the door, and listen to them/heal them ignoring the other entertainers there?

You are welcome to shout all you want about coming to watch the strippers as long as YOU are at the keys so YOU can listen to the complaints of people wanting to watch the strippers that YOU promised them.

There, I didn't mention 'me' once. If you can't understand how rude that person was being for shouting, I'll go explain 'blue' to a person who has been blind since birth. I might have more success.