Entertainer Archive
Thread: Rude?
I was going to pay a trainer for my first skill (Ent Heal I), but needed some cash first. So I went into the cantina to work up some tips. So far every time I have entered there has been a group and I have been immediately invited to join. I can't play what they're playing and I am one of those who does not feel comfortable asking the group to "dumb it down" for me. So I just dance.
Anyway, as I was doing this, one of the other dancers just must have clicked me and hit "train" (I assume you can do this -- She didn't even need to ask if I needed training or in what -- I assume it because as an utterly new player I don't have the ability to train anyone else yet). She just started giving me skills -- Ent. Heal 1, plus a whole butt-load of 0-cost languages. It was really nice of her, and I thanked her...
But I am embarrassed to say it did not occur to me to tip her for the training. In retrospect I guess I should have but it never even dawned on me. Later on when my character grew tired and rested, I did have her listen to and tip the person who had taught me, as a regular tip for entertainment. But at this stage I was pretty broke and could only afford a few measly credits.
Still, next time whatever amount of credits I can afford in terms of tips, I will try to remember to tip to people nice enough to train me for free. It is a good idea and I am sort of ashamed it did not occur to me on its own...
C
Ok
It is ALWAYS nice to tip for training esp for higher level. If you say that you should only train for apprentice xp then what happens when you reach master? So master dancers/entertainers/musicans shouldn't train people anymore? I am full of apprentice xp (meaning I can't get anymore no matter how much I teach others until I reach Master Dancer) does this mean I shouldn't train anyone anymore?
The cost for the high level dance trainer is 1000*level. So for the first level dance skill it costs me 6000, then 7000, then 8000, then 9000 FOR EACH BOX. Especially since there are so few high level dancers, I need to go run missions or rely on tips in order to get trained.
When someone teaches me I always tip 10% (so if the skill costs 1000 I tip 100). Its just a polite, well-mannered thing to do. I don't ask for money butI certainly DO remember who tips me for training. Believe me, when I see them they get personal attention or free action bar heals (I'm also a medic) before I heal any other entertainer. And when you never have to stop dancing/playing music because there's a medic healing you - you really speed up on the xp gain.
I agree and disagree with a lot of what was said here, for sure. I don't really consider it rude when people come in and start playing or dancing while I'm doing the same, because I usually do it as well--but for the purpose of being seen so the current group will invite me to join. Sometimes I'll ask, but there was one point where I asked every few minutes and was blatantly ignored(that pissed me off), so I just started to dance anyway. I don't get annoyed by people who come in and start to dance or play unless I invite them and they're either already in a group, or decline the invitation. I think it's stupid to have two seperate entertainer groups going when you can get more XP by simply combining.
The macroers can annoy me to a degree, but not as much. I hit Dance IV, Ent. Healing IV, and Musicianship II without macroing at all, and that was a pain. Especially when I hit Dancing IV in one day--constant dancing for hours on end, paying attention to the screen, chatting, and getting the flourishes done. But, I still don't think I'd ever use a macro. However, that's just me. So I won't grief those who do use macros harshly.
I have other things I can go off about with rudeness, but my brain is fried right now from reading all the horrid bugs after the recent patch, so I'll sit here and wish I could play but be too afraid to log on, lol. 
In my humble opiion, of which I have many, training should be free. I never pay for it and I never charge for it. If I'm going to pay for trainig, I'll pay an NPC. Now I've only ever paid for Novice training, so it's not that hard to get trained. Find yourself a Master, and be nice to them. Kiss there back side every once in a blue moon. Always be nice, and don't demand to BE TRAINED RITE NOW DARN IT. All things come to those who are patient.
Now I don't see how people make a living as an entertainer. I mean, I suppose it's possible, but not to live in the manor I am accustomed. So pick up a secondary skill. Hey, in the real world almostall entertainers have to have a straight job to make ends meet.
So now it comes to doing your own thing in a Cantina. I can never tell if a Dancer is doing their own thing or in the group, so that doesn't bother me. But musicians shouldn't come in and blast Star Wars 1 when the Band is busy playing Star Wars 3. That's just rude, and it does throw off the esthetic. So just ask politely if the band could posibly change to (list songs you can play) sometime within the next five miutes or so. Now that means, that high level members should stop beeing elitist snobs and go ahead and play down. If your too good to play rock, then your too good to be in a bar band.
Your in the wrong cantinas buddy.
Over at bestine, we all love eachother.
Heck, i announce ALL the dancers, and musicians, and if someone has an instrument in their hand, or starts dancing, or has a dancing title ,we ask if theyd like to join!
Training? Peh! not a problem. If you dont have the skill, we'll teach you for free (most of us anyway,i sure will)
As for the chipping in to get a skill, weve never seen a skill needs to be learned we aint had there, so never had to do it.. not a bad idea though! ^_^
Of course, Bestine is ruled by the empire.. probebly why it isn as scummy and mean as everywhere else =P
Oh, some people "race" to train em, we see who needs the apprenticeship XP and lets THEM train em, nice and fair, untill theyve got all we need, and off we go to the next.
Go to the bestine cantina weeknights (some weekend nights) and see Teka Kadru and the Holugraphic Experiance!
(gee i cant wait for REAL player-owned cantinas to go in.i /will/ have one.)
Meyekul wrote:I always try to join a band in progress when I go to the Cantina. However, a lot of times the band leader is AFK and just has a macro running to keep doin bandflourishes and no one else can be added to the group till they get back.
Yep, this happens a lot, unfortunately... :-/
The other night on Moenia (Naritus server) the leader went AFK for a while, and several entertainers came in and nobody could join. There were about 9 of us in the group... 4 idled and 5 of us active. So the actives just left the group and started a new one, and the 3 or 4 newcomers joined, and we went on without the AFKers. It felt kind of mean (since they no doubt took an XP hit due to our mass departure) but it would have been even more rude to let the newcomers just stand there.
If you are in a group and you don't want "splinter performances" to interfere with you, invite people in and then it won't be a problem. :-)
As for tipping, maybe entertainers dont tip very well because we're always broke? You know how hard it is to find nice clothes that we can afford?? Personally I run around with about 200 creds in the bank and probably 50-100 on me at all times; just enough to take a couple quick delivery missions if i need cash. I like to do a bit of exploring and combat too, and in order to do that you need to clone and insure the important stuff (instrument, weapon, favorite clothes), which costs over 1000 creds, which is a considerable sum for an entertainer (I usually have to do 2 out of town delivery missions to pay for cloning). Whenever I get someone to train me, I'll throw a couple hundred credits at them, more if I have extra cash and its an important skill, but I'm not going to pay you full price for it when it doesnt cost you anything to click on me and hit teach.
You're quite right... most entertainers are broke.... So when I train them I don't expect anything in return, and if I heal them I don't expect much, if any, tip. Someone on here said a few days ago, "If they are tipping 10 or 20 credits I figure they probably need it more than I do," and that's probably a good rule of thumb. If poor entertainers can only tip you a few credits you should remember that it's the thought that counts.
I have actually had a few people who know I am broke and a n00b to the game, say, "You shouldn't have!" when I tip them, but I feel like it is an obligation.
Us Entertainers have to stick together... Train each other for free, bring each other into groups, and tip each other when and where we can. That way even if the battle-types are stingy, we can still survive at doing what we enjoy.
C
At the cantina that I perform at, I'm currently one of the highest level entertainers in both musician and dancer. I always train for free and never ask for tips, I'll even make what instruments I can and absolutely not ask for payment. When I get tips from my fellow entertainers it actually embarasses me, I feel like us entertainers should be like family and stick together and help each other out. When money for me gets low I end up going out and doing destroy missions, the costs for the upper tier skills just gets so high, but I don't see it as lower levels leaching off of me, I get lots of nice apprenticeship xp, and often they are able to train me in something else, and if not I just enjoy the company of my fellow bandmates, and enjoy it when they finally move beyond that annoying level of starwars I and rock.
I tend not to tip other people for training me, unless they ask and of course I will no problem, I just try to make it understood that I am very grateful and will return the favor if I have the opportunity, or will do anything else for them that it's in my power to do that they might need..
Another observation....generally the entertainers that I have seen that are begging for tips (you know when you see them, they say "Tips," or "TIPS PLZ" but nothing else) are generally players that aren't entertainers for long. The better, more serious entertainers typically are more subtle about the entertainers and make mention of tips in the welcome statements they give to those that arrive at the cantina.
Most entertainers that have been at it for a while have all maxed out on apprentice xp. Its really easy for an entertainer. Once you have a few skills under your belt, you'll encounter several people every day that need training. If there wasn't a cap, I'd have 10s of thousands of apprentice xp. So, saying that people are being rewarded for training by getting apprentice xp really isn't true.
That being said, I never ask nor expect a tip. My entertainer has been at it long enough, and has enough regular customers not to burden the inexperienced new entertainer character (not the established character that just picked up entertainer as a side profession) with a request for a tip. The best entertainers, in my experience, know how to put on a good show and up their average tips and know who their good customers are, and how to treat them well.
DarthMinos wrote:Another observation....generally the entertainers that I have seen that are begging for tips (you know when you see them, they say "Tips," or "TIPS PLZ" but nothing else) are generally players that aren't entertainers for long. The better, more serious entertainers typically are more subtle about the entertainers and make mention of tips in the welcome statements they give to those that arrive at the cantina.
Personally, I think asking for tips at all is extremely tacky. Think of it this way... Can you imagine a waitress in a restaurant (here on earth in RL), as she brings you your food.. then your coffee or whatever, saying, "Don't forget I work on tips"...? And just how much tip do you think a waitress who asks for it would make relative to one who just served you and did not say anything?
Now, it is true that there are new players out there who do not realize they are supposed to tip, so a little "out of character" reminder occasionally might be OK, but even saying it each time someone walks into the cantina is extremely tacky, IMO.
But maybe that's just me....
C
Chessack, I don't entirely disagree with you.
The "remember, I work for tips," is pretty bad. However, I think a macro that goes something along the lines, "Welcome to the Cantina. Sit back, kick off your boots, and enjoy the show. If you like what you see, let us know by clapping or cheering, and all tips are very much appreciated," isn't so bad. I think it adds to the atmosphere and is infinitely better than the entertainer that just asks for tips.
I've found that such statements aren't needed as much as when the game was in its first week of release, but occassionally, it isn't so bad.
Oh, one other thing, Chessack, I didn't mean for that to be said each time a person walks into the cantina. Its a simple statement that is said every once in a while. My entertainer usually only uses such a statement when I am the leader of a group, and the place is too busy to greet each customer by name as they walk into the cantina. Its kind of a responsibility thing to the group to look after them.
I also agree that in RL, the waitress that doesn't remind the customer about tipping will get more tips, but I don't think that translates to this game real well. A lot of customers will drop into the cantina and run out without tipping, which they would never do in real life, because they are behind the safety of their keyboard.
DarthMinos wrote:Chessack, I don't entirely disagree with you.
The "remember, I work for tips," is pretty bad. However, I think a macro that goes something along the lines, "Welcome to the Cantina. Sit back, kick off your boots, and enjoy the show. If you like what you see, let us know by clapping or cheering, and all tips are very much appreciated," isn't so bad."
OK, this I agree with as long as it is not too frequent.
I have seen dancers over in a corner, AFK, spouting something like that off every 90 seconds on a macro and personally I find it highly annoying. And remember I'm one of the dancers who would benefit from it. I can't imagine a gunfighter would find it less annoying.
I do understand the frustration, trust me. You can see all the healing exp. cranking along, so you know people are out there benefitting from your dancing, and when you come away from the night with 0 credits for all your hard work, flourishes, RPing, flirting, etc, you might get the urge to prod people. You just have to be careful how you ask for tips or it can become so tacky that it reduces them, rather than increases them.
There are, of course, more tactful ways of doing it. There's a coffee place near me with a "tip cup" where you can throw in a tip to the coffee makers if you want. It doesn't ask for tips it just has a little sign on it saying, "Thanks a Latte!"
It's so cute it makes me want to toss in some of my change. :-)
But again, it's important to be tactful. If it makes you look like a beggar, you will end up getting very little.
C
I agree whole heartedly. I always drop AFK entertainers from my group unless they tell me in advance what is going on (such as five minutes away to swap out laundry, whatever), or they are in another room where they won't be "stealing" the rest of the groups tips.
Thats why I can't stand the "TIPS" dialogue that some characters spew out without putting forth any other effort. It gives us all a bad name, and leads to non-entertainers accusing us of complaining about tips too much.