Entertainer Archive
Thread: BuffBots, are they really the problem?
Groovymarlin wrote:
If it were possible to completely automate doctor buffs, and suddenly doctor buffbots sprung up all over the place, there would be an outcry. If it were possible to completely automate slicing, and slicing bots sprung up, there would be an outcry.
This is OUR outcry.
You will never see a massive amount of botting by these other professions because they take resources, there is no way someone will take the chance of getting stiffed 
So they cannot properly be compared.
However, docbots are in game in player cities. Why do people prefer to even go all the way to a major city rather then resort to the docbots in their hometown? The docbot buffs arent as strong as the guy in theed who canuse a robot and recharge its battery, they arent as strong as the doc that will take bivoli to make his buffs stronger before he buffs people.
I dont think my suggestion is too much for people to take into consideration as a fix to the problem the hologrind has caused within this profession.
And yet it gets ignored, because people are angry.
And when people are angry they dont think about fixing problems, they just want to be un-angry. And the easiest way to be un-angry is to point fingers. So instead of fixing the real problems people cry nerf. It happens in all professions.
And if any of you think taking the macro line out of entertainer will make a significant difference you are mistaken. Majority of the people that play buffbots(if you can call it that) would use an out of game program to just click what is needed.
Again, I am not saying choosing a buffbot over an atktainer is ok, im saying taking the buffbot out of the equation will not solve the problem entertainers face in this game. It will only solve the symptom.
AnakinSWG wrote:
PistolDance wrote:
Actually I really dont know your history on chilastra
And entertainers do have my support, they get my tips before the buffbots, that does not mean doing away with buffbots is the answer. But thanks for following me to another professions boards, its quite affectionate of you
These are my profession boards.
<---- Master Dancer
I read these forums quite often hon
Oh crap Til, thought you were paribus for some reason You guys keep changing your board accounts 
I dont appreciate you mocking my knowledge of this subject btw
PistolDance wrote:
Drygo wrote:
Wrong again.
No Drygo, you left because of it. And I see you did not include that you left because of buffbots, but instead, because of the hologrind. There are some that left for your reasons and there are some that left long before Holocrons were even put in.
I can assure you that there are many many people who left entertaining solely because of the afk and buffbot situation. You may not believe it, but that does not negate the reality. The fact of the matter is, regardless of a perceived lack of content or not, there would be more live entertainers and mind buffers around if the buffbots didn't exist. Also, I'm not sure where I didn't include that I left because of buffbots. I clearly stated in this thread, and the post you are quoting, that I left because of buffbots. The truth of the matter is, while there are a lot of things relating to afk and macro that displease me, it's the buffbots that killed me. And, I'll repeat what I said above. If tomorrow buffbots were gone, I would absolutely resubscribe. Also, in my "goodbye" post on the day I cancelled, I made it pointedly clear that buffbots were the reason that I was leaving.
First, the entertainers started hanging out in the Cantinas less and less due to afk. People started dropping the professions because of afk because the Cantinas were no longer enjoyable. The afk came first, no doubt about it, exacerbated by the hologrind. I and countless others dropped the professions or left the game because of the buffbots. It's a fact. The more afk and the more buffbots that come into existence, the more entertainers leave the Cantinas, drop the professions, or leave the game. For some it might be due to lack of content. But, these days, for most it's because our profession has been decimated by afk and buffbotting.
If afk and macro and buffbots had never existed, we would still be there. *I* would still be there.
Thats great, where were you when I needed a buff? Where were all the entertainers whenpeople needed a buff?
Were you on Chilastra? If so, I was on a different server. Up until the day I quit, I *still* tried to go into the Cantinas to sell mind buffs. I waited there for *hours* waiting to get a customer. But, did I get any? More often than not the answer was no. Why? Because everybody makes a beeline for that buffbot as soon as they walk in the door. What the hell reason do I have for staying in the Cantina for hours on end to sell mind buffs when nobody buys them from me? The buffbots drive the master dancers and master musicians out because they don't get any business. Believe me, I tried, like an idiot, over and over and over again to go back into those Cantinas to sell my services. Every single time I left asking myself why I wasted so much time in there. Up until that day, I still made sure people knew I could be called upon at any time, even willing to planet hop to go give them a buff. Didn't matter, all the buffbots in the public and private Cantinas were readily available. I asked people in spatial while I was in the Cantinas if they wanted a buff. Their response? No thanks, I'll go use the buffbot. I and many others tried over and over to go be available to other players, only to be met with loss of time and business due to buffbots. So, most of us don't go anymore. Now you tell me...would you keep going to the Cantinas in a situation such as this?
The afk mentality in this game is what ruined it for everyone.
I dont think anyone could deny this
Trust me on this. The afk came first, not the lack of buffing.
The AFK came first because of hologrind, but the prominence of buffbots came from lack of entertainers.
But lack of entertainers came from the afk. Remove the afk, the entertainers will be back.
Message Edited by PistolDance on 07-31-2004 07:35 PM
Drygo wrote:
PistolDance wrote:
Drygo wrote:
Wrong again.
No Drygo, you left because of it. And I see you did not include that you left because of buffbots, but instead, because of the hologrind. There are some that left for your reasons and there are some that left long before Holocrons were even put in.
I can assure you that there are many many people who left entertaining solely because of the afk and buffbot situation. You may not believe it, but that does not negate the reality.
I stated I do believe it, you however refuse to believe entertainers left because of the reasons I stated. Your un-willingness to listen to me is starting to annoy me
For some it might be due to lack of content. But, these days, for most it's because our profession has been decimated by afk and buffbotting.
ah I spoke too soon, thank you for finally conceding that it is even possible someone would leave the profession for reasons other than your own. Again you stated they are leaving because of bots, but why did those bots start in the first place?
The buffbots drive the master dancers and master musicians out because they don't get any business.
Again, people were not being served by entertainers. Thats why the bots moved to npc cities.
If you had indeed been around enough you would have created a personal clientel. It is possible, its been done and people still do it.
I asked people in spatial while I was in the Cantinas if they wanted a buff. Their response? No thanks, I'll go use the buffbot.
Did you ask them why they prefer a buffbot? Perhaps that might shed some light to the dilema.
I wont get into why, because I know it will be taken as an attack.
But lack of entertainers came from the afk. Remove the afk, the entertainers will be back.
I agree this will happen, but at what price? You will lose so many people that feel they need mind buffs to lvl. They will resort to food and drink and hold resentment for your profession.
As it is now, I can buff my mind 3x as strong with food and drink compared to entertainer buffs. And I dont have to take an hour getting them. I dont have to worry about a half buff or no buff at all. What incentive is there for a player to waste time trying to find a mind buff?
There is none, once you see this and understand the type of players you are dealing with you might be able to understand why fixing the AFK problem before fixing the availability problem isnt the right course of action.
Message Edited by PistolDance on 07-31-2004 10:51 PM
Just the fact that you said this makes me take it as a personal attack. You have no idea who I am or how good I am. I'm not going to say something that is obviously going to make me look very pompous. But, I assure you, it had nothing to do with my lack of social or entertaining skills, or my lack of knowledge. It was because buffbots these days often give both buffs, and they give them away for free, as well as the fact that people have gotten used to their immediacy and availability 23/7, of which I cannot possibly compete with. And, I am NOT the only person that this has happened to. Up until this point, I thought you were capable of having an intelligent conversation.
PistolDance wrote:
Did you ask them why they prefer a buffbot? Perhaps that might shed some light to the dilema.
I wont get into why, because I know it will be taken as an attack.
Im sorry Zilod, I am having trouble understanding all of what you say, so forgive me if I dont seem to be replying correctly. I know it is a language barrier
Zilod wrote:
yup i'm very angry and full of hatred why?
because ihada lot of fun with entertainer and now i can't play it...
why i can't play it?
because cantinas are full of afkers (expecially buffbots) that prevent (as you also said in your other post) to live the cantina the way it was....
You can still play though. Do you see that you are upset with the way the developers allowed the game to evolve rather than upset with the people that play the buffbots? And by crying for the buffbots to be banished you are hurting the people( your customers)that have learned to rely on them out of the low availability of ATK entertainers?
Why is are there so little ATK entertainers, not now, but before buffbots?
and about external programs... EULA doesn't permit to use them so all peoples using them are subject to ban...
That has never, and never will stop people.
Please do not start with personal attacks, I would hope we could debate on this subject without resorting to such.
Drygo wrote:
PistolDance wrote:
Did you ask them why they prefer a buffbot? Perhaps that might shed some light to the dilema.
I wont get into why, because I know it will be taken as an attack.
Just the fact that you said this makes me take it as a personal attack. You have no idea who I am or how good I am.
Niether do they, thats my point. If you had been as active before buffbots as you were after them, theymight have known.
Message Edited by PistolDance on 07-31-2004 11:03 PM
PistolDance wrote:
Please do not start with personal attacks, I would hope we could debate on this subject without resorting to such.
Drygo wrote:
PistolDance wrote:
Did you ask them why they prefer a buffbot? Perhaps that might shed some light to the dilema.
I wont get into why, because I know it will be taken as an attack.
Just the fact that you said this makes me take it as a personal attack. You have no idea who I am or how good I am.
Niether do they, thats my point. If you had been as active before buffbots as you were after them, they have have known.
Um...I was active before buffbots. Where do you get off implying that I wasn't when you have no freakin' clue? Were you there? Were you on Kettemoor to make such a judgment? Were you on Kettemoor every time I logged on counting how many hours I was or was not in a Cantina doing mind buffs? I highly doubt it.
Excuse me? Who threw the first attack here? I believe it was you...I'll repeat it here in case you've forgotten:
Did you ask them why they prefer a buffbot? Perhaps that might shed some light to the dilema.
I wont get into why, because I know it will be taken as an attack.
You're implying something about my character which you have no knowledge about. It's insulting and it's a personal attack. Of course, I'm going to defend myself.
PistolDance wrote:
Im sorry Zilod, I am having trouble understanding all of what you say, so forgive me if I dont seem to be replying correctly. I know it is a language barrier
Zilod wrote:
yup i'm very angry and full of hatred why?
because ihada lot of fun with entertainer and now i can't play it...
why i can't play it?
because cantinas are full of afkers (expecially buffbots) that prevent (as you also said in your other post) to live the cantina the way it was....
You can still play though. Do you see that you are upset with the way the developers allowed the game to evolve rather than upset with the people that play the buffbots? And by crying for the buffbots to be banished you are hurting the people( your customers)that have learned to rely on them out of the low availability of ATK entertainers?
I play my jedi or my combat, as said above i just log sometimes with my entertainer, just to check the situation... i have done it 4-5 days this month and really after 1-2 hours spent at cantina trying to find some alive players i gave up and gone to play some music at the ID tent or at starport... so no i'm not playing my entertainer cause afkers ruin my play
Why is are there so little ATK entertainers, not now, but before buffbots?
I'm speaking of afk in general, buffbots are the last one and will be probably dominant after publish 10, so your question should be
"Why is are there so little ATK entretainers, not now, but before AFKers?"
response:
there where a lot of ATK entertainers around before AFKers,when afkers started to show and invaded our cantinas ruining atmosphere and enjoyment manyATK entertainers left the profession.
and about external programs... EULA doesn't permit to use them so all peoples using them are subject to ban...
That has never, and never will stop people.
There where a lot of afk looters in some dungeons... i think that, that problem had been mostly resolved.
Drygo wrote:
PistolDance wrote:
Please do not start with personal attacks, I would hope we could debate on this subject without resorting to such.
Drygo wrote:
PistolDance wrote:
Did you ask them why they prefer a buffbot? Perhaps that might shed some light to the dilema.
I wont get into why, because I know it will be taken as an attack.
Just the fact that you said this makes me take it as a personal attack. You have no idea who I am or how good I am.
Niether do they, thats my point. If you had been as active before buffbots as you were after them, they have have known.
Um...I was active before buffbots. Where do you get off implying that I wasn't when you have no freakin' clue? Were you there? Were you on Kettemoor to make such a judgment? Were you on Kettemoor every time I logged on counting how many hours I was or was not in a Cantina doing mind buffs? I highly doubt it.
Excuse me? Who threw the first attack here? I believe it was you...I'll repeat it here in case you've forgotten:
Did you ask them why they prefer a buffbot? Perhaps that might shed some light to the dilema.
I wont get into why, because I know it will be taken as an attack.
You're implying something about my character which you have no knowledge about. It's insulting and it's a personal attack. Of course, I'm going to defend myself.
The only reason you would think I was attacking you is if you took what I said personally, which you did. All of your arguments have been attached to you personaly. I knew this would happen during our discussion because of thisand was going to comment on it but I thought you would take it as an attack so I avoided it
How could I even assume to know wether or not you are good at what you do? The fact that you would think I would assume should be proof to you that you might want to take a step back and breathe a bit before continuing.
Zilod wrote:
don't worry my english is really crappy i know
ehm is clear the difference by AFK sympton/cause?
Well considering I dont speak any other languages, your english is just fine for me
I think we might see things the same way on this subject, we both feel AFK is what started entertainers to drop their profession?
If that is what you mean, then I agree with you, however I think it was also lack of content for entertainers as well
My point was buffbots are a symptom of the lack of entertainers. Because majority of entertainers quit because of all the AFK, people were not there to buff. So people made buffbots because AFK made the entertainers quit.
Message Edited by PistolDance on 07-31-2004 11:18 PM
You can still play though. Do you see that you are upset with the way the developers allowed the game to evolve rather than upset with the people that play the buffbots? And by crying for the buffbots to be banished you are hurting the people( your customers)that have learned to rely on them out of the low availability of ATK entertainers?
I know this wasn't a response to me, but I thought I'd interject. Obviously, I'm very upset about how the devs allowed this to evolve. I submitted feedback when I cancelled, and have made many, many posts about how terrible their all encompassing afk macro system was, and that it was a HUGE mistake. I also made it very clear that any game I play in the future, I will check out beforehand, and if there is a macro system in that game like in SWG I will not play it. So, of course, I fault the devs greatly for this.
However, that does not mean that I can't also fault all of the people who run buffbots and exacerbate the problem. To do something like this with so little regard with how they have collectively ruined 2 elite professions (as well as a base profession if we were to include afk in general), is not going to win them favors in my book. There are people out there who have the decency to know that afk'ing and buffbot'ing is not good for the game and our professions and they don't use them. Just because something "bad" is made available to someone does not mean that they are free to make choices that greatly harm the game and not expect some kind of backlash. They are just as at fault for taking advantage of a system that allows them to ruin an entire style of gameplay, one of the supposed 3 main styles in SWG. The people that do this just because "it's allowed" are equally deserving of my frustration and anger as the devs are. The idea that you are "allowed" to do something bad "just because you can" is nothing but gross selfishness.
PistolDance wrote:
The only reason you would think I was attacking you is if you took what I said personally, which you did. All of your arguments have been attached to you personaly. I knew this would happen during our discussion because of thisand was going to comment on it but I thought you would take it as an attack so I avoided it
How could I even assume to know wether or not you are good at what you do? The fact that you would think I would assume should be proof to you that you might want to take a step back and breathe a bit before continuing.