Entertainer Archive
Thread: Petition to have buffbots defined as griefing
JohnMarble
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:04 am
#40
oops sorry, I was just using your quote and didn't remove the name. Sorry, just so excited yesterday it was like I was drunk. I'll edit it.
Soulburner69
Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:04 am
#41
not a problem, just figured i would alert you to the mistake 
Kershakk
Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:31 pm
#42
While I prefer to get entertained by a real entertainer over a buff-bot, I play from Australia and during my evenings I don't think I have run into an entertainer at keyboard for the last 8 months.
You can allude to it as kill-stealing if a buff-bot is taking your business, but you can hardly call it that when there's no contest to begin with. If you're an entertainer who plays on Gorath during the hours of Shutdown minus 4 hours til shutdown, and are at keyboard, say the word 
Otherwise calling a buff-bot a kill stealer when you're not evenavailable is saying that someone's stealing your krayts when you're offline. Re-terating I prefer live performances over buff-bots but sometimes some of us have no choice.
Just a thought.
nodoubt1
Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:04 am
#43
you may have a point for buffbots in major cities.....but in player cities they rock......sorry but unless you want to work in the player cities 24/7 you cant complain about this
Drygo
Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:17 pm
#44
PhoenixStar wrote:
What about people that offer free buffs while you're in the cantina? I always give my buffs away and I won't charge for them. Is that the same thing? When I do it I usually run my macro and walk away to do something else while everyone is getting buffed. Then I come back and invite new people, rinse and repeat. Is that griefing too?
Nah. That's your choice. I don't agree with the choice because I don't think you should be undercutting other people like that and making it difficult for others to make a living from the skills on their chosen profession. But, you're free to do what you want with your time, I suppose. I also know that you aren't going to be there 23/7. And, neither will other live players. There are a lot more options for an entertainer who wants to sell mindbuffs, and a lot of venues when everyone's doing it live and competing with each other. These options are taken away when 95% of the population gets buffs either from their Cantina guildbot or the bots in the big cities or adventure planet outposts.
Beery
Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:16 am
#45
"What about people that offer free buffs while you're in the cantina? I always give my buffs away and I won't charge for them. Is that the same thing? When I do it I usually run my macro and walk away to do something else while everyone is getting buffed. Then I come back and invite new people, rinse and repeat. Is that griefing too?"
Yes. In my opinion that's griefing. Clearly, you don't need to make money from entertaining, but many entertainers don't have that luxury - they don't havesecondary jobs that pay the bills. Many can't stand crafting or combat, and for these folks, you present a deadly threat to their livelihood. Whenever you're around you destroy their chances of making a living from the only money-making tool an entertainer has at his command. It's never right to undercut the market. What you're doing is just like sitting outside a Droid Engineer's store and selling droids for free. Do you think that would be right?
Let me ask you this: if someone wasgiving away for freethe goods you sell as your primary means of making money, what would your response be? Would you welcome that person to your profession with open arms as you find your profits slowing to a crawl, or would you be upset that someone was destroying your ability to make a living at the job you prefer to do?
Message Edited by Beery on 08-08-2004 07:24 AM
hawkbatleader1
Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:20 pm
#46
Beery wrote:
"What about people that offer free buffs while you're in the cantina? I always give my buffs away and I won't charge for them. Is that the same thing? When I do it I usually run my macro and walk away to do something else while everyone is getting buffed. Then I come back and invite new people, rinse and repeat. Is that griefing too?"
Yes. In my opinion that's griefing. Clearly, you don't need to make money from entertaining, but many entertainers don't have that luxury - they don't havesecondary jobs that pay the bills. Many can't stand crafting or combat, and for these folks, you present a deadly threat to their livelihood. Whenever you're around you destroy their chances of making a living from the only money-making tool an entertainer has at his command. It's never right to undercut the market. What you're doing is just like sitting outside a Droid Engineer's store and selling droids for free. Do you think that would be right?
Let me ask you this: if someone wasgiving away for freethe goods you sell as your primary means of making money, what would your response be? Would you welcome that person to your profession with open arms as you find your profits slowing to a crawl, or would you be upset that someone was destroying your ability to make a living at the job you prefer to do?
Message Edited by Beery on 08-08-2004 07:24 AM
Sorry beery...your opinion is wrong.
All this player is doing is undercutting the market...and thats not griefing.
Your arguement is incredibly selfish, don't you think?
For instance...I create a novice artisan...and spend all my time crafting cdef weapons.
Does the fact that no one wants to buy my weapons constitute griefing, since its the only way I have of making money? Nope.
I have lots of other skill points that can allow me to earn money...and so do you.
face it...you dont even produce a tangible product.
Entertainer buffs COST NOTHING TO PRODUCE! you should not even charge for the service.... Doctor buffs are quite expensive to produce....and the buff packs can sell for tons, because the effort andcost of production is high.
entertainers have no such costs required.
Stop whining about this beery...you are giving other entertainers a bad name
Beery
Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:50 pm
#47
Sorry. Double post.
Nevertheless this will, I'm sure, be one-starred by whoever it is that is so obsessedwith me that he follows me around, one-starringall my posts. Hehe, I love having a fan club (or is that a stalker club? LOL.)
I guess some folks have some serious issues.
Message Edited by Beery on 08-08-2004 09:18 PM
Beery
Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:16 pm
#48
"Sorry beery...your opinion is wrong."
Well, you would say that, now wouldn't you. Sadly (for you)your opinion doesn't outweigh mine purely because you say so. You need facts and reasonto back it up, things your posts lack. Your latest one is full of bias and prejudice against a class of player you will never understand, but as usual, it lacks botha coherent messageand a reasoned argument.
Also, it's kinda strange that you think this way, yet you added your name to the petition. Not that I mind.
Xamot1
Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:25 pm
#49
/don flame resist armor
buff-bots = griefing?!?!?
Griefing refers to the act players take for the sole purpose of discomforting other users. Such actions include kill stealing, Player Killing, stealing dropped items from a kill or during inventory reorganization or a mistake, harassment.
Saying "buff-bots = griefing" is silly, guys. I understand the buff-bot issue needs to be addressed, but going as far to say these bots are deliberately harassing people is quite a stretch and IMO desperate.
Beery
Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:29 pm
#50
"Griefing refers to the act players take for the sole purpose of discomforting other users."
Griefing is any act done with the purpose of discomforting other users. Whether or not it's the 'sole' purpose is irrelevant. It's clear from many posts I've seen that many of the buffbots are in service in part to make entertainers lose money. That is their purpose (whether it's their 'sole' purpose or not)and that is their effect. If you don't think so, then you seriously underestimate how much certain players hate having to go to cantinas to get healed and buffed.
"Saying "buff-bots = griefing" is silly, guys. I understand the buff-bot issue needs to be addressed, but going as far to say these bots are deliberately harassing people is quite a stretch and IMO desperate."
So we're silly and desperate, huh?Hmm. You're wearing your flame-proof armour, but you didn't warn me to put mine on. What is the 'silly and desperate' comment- a pre-emptive strike?
If I was going to flame a segment of the community so blatantly, I guess I'd put on my flame-proof armour too. If WE'RE the desperate ones, why is it thatyou're the first to start flaming? One would think that the most desperate party would be the one to break out the flamethrowers. I guess if there was any doubt about who the desperate people are, you've put that doubt to rest quite nicely. 
Plus, why on Earth would WE be the desperate ones? We're going to get what we want. Buffbots will be no more very soon - or at least their effect onour professionwill become negligible. The developers are going to get rid of buffbots after publish 10. What have we gotto be desperate about? All we have to do is wait. I can see why buffbot owners and users would be desperate at this stage, but entertainers? No way. Methinks thou dost protest too much.
Message Edited by Beery on 08-08-2004 10:49 PM
kirah_ashlin
Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:13 am
#51
While I'm sorry you have had problems finding live entertains during the hours you are playing the game, I have to disagree with you. That buffbot isn't just on while you are on. They are there 23/7, so yes - it is akin to a killsteal because they are not just there during what is generally considered "non-peak" times, but ALL the time - including when I, a live entertainer,am on.
Kershakk wrote:
While I prefer to get entertained by a real entertainer over a buff-bot, I play from Australia and during my evenings I don't think I have run into an entertainer at keyboard for the last 8 months.
You can allude to it as kill-stealing if a buff-bot is taking your business, but you can hardly call it that when there's no contest to begin with. If you're an entertainer who plays on Gorath during the hours of Shutdown minus 4 hours til shutdown, and are at keyboard, say the word
Otherwise calling a buff-bot a kill stealer when you're not evenavailable is saying that someone's stealing your krayts when you're offline. Re-terating I prefer live performances over buff-bots but sometimes some of us have no choice.
Just a thought.
hawkbatleader1
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:11 pm
#52
the problem is.... removing recursive macros will not stop buff bots.... It will merely make the macro strings a bit more work to tie togethor...
the fact is, that the entertainer communities cry for NERF is nerfing every character class in this game...by making the dev's force a quick fix thru nerfing recursive macros...
Your cries of NERF BUFFBOTS have game wide implications....AND will still not fix your problem...
There will still be afktainers, and buff bots...and you will still not be necessary...
and a lot of the community will take this out on the entertainers...
-----
I find your attitude and your goal griefing...because it has the potential to interferes with MY game play..... and cause me great discomfort.
and to directly respond to a few statements....
It's clear from many posts I've seen that many of the buffbots are in service in part to make entertainers lose money.
Hah! please point those posts out to me. Not one buff bot owner runs a bot to cause you a monetary loss. You have no product, no resources required for your service.. how could an entertainer operate at a loss?
Plus, why on Earth would WE be the desperate ones? We're going to get what we want.
Hah! if you weren't desperate, why the cries for the nerf? and be careful what you ask for...its more likely to backfire in your face, than improve your class, your community involvement, or your attitude.
AND ATTITUDE IS BEERY'S #1 PROBLEM!