Entertainer Archive
Thread: Upcoming Changes to Entertainer and its Performance-based elites
Myrsan
Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:46 am
#40
Though I'd appreciate a reduction of the skill points costs, I don't want it.
Being entertainer since I'vebegun and starting to enjoy RP after just one month,I've experienced whats thesense of beingof our profs.
It's RP, the bands, the shows, the cantina-evenings, the accompanied wedding and other ceremonnial events. We have/had a more game-based sense when buffing minds and healing mind wounds/BF. But I haven't ever been able to afford a well life from that.
The only thing that was once there and isn't anymore is the request of customers.
Customers who wished a mind buff. What were we exposed to do at that time?
Just start a macro by pushing one button.
Just some mathematic commands to fulfill a small advantage for combat players.
How often had I feeling disturbed by those client requests because I was just RPing with my friends in the cantina.
I buffed them because of the social aspect, nothing more. Neither because of the few tips nor because of an amusement using a mathematic command line.
So these changes don't hurt me, though there is a feeling of uselessness is crawling up my neck.
I love our professions and hold onto them.
It's easier by having a second char, but it works. 
And I have to disagree with your suggestions of removing skill points. Why?
See the politicians. Only thing that keeps that profession alive is the the city building.
They won't get anything new, they are lost.
I don't want to see us getting lost, too.
At the moment the DEVs want to change something, want to give us new things.
I couldwrite a wishlist down which would reach from Naboo to the Outer Rim.
Of course, I don't believe that we're getting many fantastical new things at that time BF will be removed from the game.
But I hold onto the skill points just as a sign for more things for us to come.
darkk1138
Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:45 pm
#41
Don't get things wrong. 
For the combat -- really mandatory buffs you have to acquire from another char are gone. They're welcome, but for a good part of the game you can well live without it. And this is good this way -- a main complaint always was, you login for something, you go to a med buff queue, go to a cantina, ask someone to buff you ... and when you finally have your missions from the term or whatever you plan and your group ready, an hour is already wasted.
I think that it'd not be sensible to wish the old times with the mind buffs would come back. Although it gave me a decent amount of cash, as my toon was present a good part of the time, and I always knew what I was doing, and although it actually made a difference between masters and nubs. But for the sake of the rest of the game, it's IMO better now than it was before.
Inspiration buffs were the totally right thing to do. Great idea. And it also makes much more sense than mind buffs. The way they did it -- spoiled it for the entertainers. Completely transparent for the ent -- no edge for ATK over AFK. Appliance duration being the only difference between higher and lower skills -- no edge for the Master over the Novice.
BF is a big chance for entertainers too. Currently, BF is not gained fast enough except from dying. Currently, BF is also not having much influence. BF is IMO supposed to have an influence so you had to visit the cantina every couple of hours. Now it'll be removed.
They say -- they want players to see an ent because the player wants to, not because the player has to. Good point. I fully support such considerations. Just I doubt it would work.
Would you buy food ingame if you didn't have to?
Would you buy armor ingame if you didn't have to?
Do you see a doc for buffs because you want to -- or is it rather the way that you're pleased because a doc is incidently accompanying your group?
Where's the chance with any new buffs added? Honestly, I'm pessimistic. All what I was afraid of regarding entertainer professions actually happened the way I assumed. Make the new buffs really cool -- they can be considered mandatory which doesn't fit into the concept. Make the buffs welcome but not necessary -- people will grab them whenever they can find an Entertainer near to the location they're currently having business at.
You say it yourself: A feeling of uselessness is crawling up your neck. For good reason, I want to add. All you get for the SP you invest beyond novice entertainer (except for ID, yes) basically just modifies the look of what you are doing.
Now, let's face it: Assume, there is a skill box in rifles you can pick up besides the usual skill tree. It'd cause your attacks to have 4 new animations and you could apply colors to your rifle weapons, but you had to spend 15 SP for it. Would you consider getting it?
I really wish Ents will be getting anything in return for the SP they spend. However, given the concept of the game, I honestly doubt it will ever happen.
Hence I see no other choice than supporting a reduction of skillpoints.
If you're afraid of entertainer inflation -- look at what I suggested for SP reduction, and it won't be that way. With a single Ent Elite Master, you spend 50SP and can still get CL80. However, you are already limited to certain selections, for example, MRifles and MPikes would not work. Also, you can't get CL80 and FS skills. This assures that not everyone can pick up the entertainer skills they would just like but they have to do serious template considerations if they wish to. Still, given what I personally expect it'd be way more fair.
For the combat -- really mandatory buffs you have to acquire from another char are gone. They're welcome, but for a good part of the game you can well live without it. And this is good this way -- a main complaint always was, you login for something, you go to a med buff queue, go to a cantina, ask someone to buff you ... and when you finally have your missions from the term or whatever you plan and your group ready, an hour is already wasted.
I think that it'd not be sensible to wish the old times with the mind buffs would come back. Although it gave me a decent amount of cash, as my toon was present a good part of the time, and I always knew what I was doing, and although it actually made a difference between masters and nubs. But for the sake of the rest of the game, it's IMO better now than it was before.
Inspiration buffs were the totally right thing to do. Great idea. And it also makes much more sense than mind buffs. The way they did it -- spoiled it for the entertainers. Completely transparent for the ent -- no edge for ATK over AFK. Appliance duration being the only difference between higher and lower skills -- no edge for the Master over the Novice.
BF is a big chance for entertainers too. Currently, BF is not gained fast enough except from dying. Currently, BF is also not having much influence. BF is IMO supposed to have an influence so you had to visit the cantina every couple of hours. Now it'll be removed.
They say -- they want players to see an ent because the player wants to, not because the player has to. Good point. I fully support such considerations. Just I doubt it would work.
Would you buy food ingame if you didn't have to?
Would you buy armor ingame if you didn't have to?
Do you see a doc for buffs because you want to -- or is it rather the way that you're pleased because a doc is incidently accompanying your group?
Where's the chance with any new buffs added? Honestly, I'm pessimistic. All what I was afraid of regarding entertainer professions actually happened the way I assumed. Make the new buffs really cool -- they can be considered mandatory which doesn't fit into the concept. Make the buffs welcome but not necessary -- people will grab them whenever they can find an Entertainer near to the location they're currently having business at.
You say it yourself: A feeling of uselessness is crawling up your neck. For good reason, I want to add. All you get for the SP you invest beyond novice entertainer (except for ID, yes) basically just modifies the look of what you are doing.
Now, let's face it: Assume, there is a skill box in rifles you can pick up besides the usual skill tree. It'd cause your attacks to have 4 new animations and you could apply colors to your rifle weapons, but you had to spend 15 SP for it. Would you consider getting it?
I really wish Ents will be getting anything in return for the SP they spend. However, given the concept of the game, I honestly doubt it will ever happen.
Hence I see no other choice than supporting a reduction of skillpoints.
If you're afraid of entertainer inflation -- look at what I suggested for SP reduction, and it won't be that way. With a single Ent Elite Master, you spend 50SP and can still get CL80. However, you are already limited to certain selections, for example, MRifles and MPikes would not work. Also, you can't get CL80 and FS skills. This assures that not everyone can pick up the entertainer skills they would just like but they have to do serious template considerations if they wish to. Still, given what I personally expect it'd be way more fair.
Bionic
Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:06 am
#42
It would be nice if we could get some kind of general purpose statement from the developers. Just something to let us know what their ultimate goal (right now) is for us. I can imagine a few possible responses, but hearing from them would make it so much less confusing as far as where Leilani and my band are going. Skill point costs, active abilities, ANYTHING resembling the Newbie Entertainer quests, etc.
Also, I feel that all non-combat skill boxes should give half of the CL bonus that combat skills do. It is sad to me that as a fully templated character, I have barely half the health than players with less than 200 skill points filled merely because some of my skills include the ability to play a few instruments, (Something requiring a bit more training than pulling a trigger on a pistol, to be frank).
Also, I feel that all non-combat skill boxes should give half of the CL bonus that combat skills do. It is sad to me that as a fully templated character, I have barely half the health than players with less than 200 skill points filled merely because some of my skills include the ability to play a few instruments, (Something requiring a bit more training than pulling a trigger on a pistol, to be frank).
Omnipotent-One
Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:37 am
#43
So, what's going to happen with skill tapes for battle fatigue healing? Are they just going to become useless? I recently looted a +25 Battle Fatigue Healing (Dancing) tape, and I'd hate to think it's going to be a useless CA.
Tralmek
Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:41 am
#44
We are hoping the skill enhancing attachments and clothing will be able to convert to something useful for us after the change. If they are converted they will modify the speed, quality, or duration of our new inspirations.
Bionic
Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:01 pm
#45
Tralmek wrote:
We are hoping the skill enhancing attachments and clothing will be able to convert to something useful for us after the change. If they are converted they will modify the speed, quality, or duration of our new inspirations.
That would be nice, as I am still sitting on several broken SEA's (Combat Medic Assembly, etc.) which were not converted with the CU despite assurances they would be.
Panthu
Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:08 pm
#46
Bionic wrote:
That would be nice, as I am still sitting on several broken SEA's (Combat Medic Assembly, etc.) which were not converted with the CU despite assurances they would be.
I hope this isn't a part of our new system just because people have them and want them to still be valuable. I don't think SEAs that modify our new buffs in any way are a good idea if the goal is "entertainment" quality over "functional" quality. SEAs are the stuff bots are made of.
I have a ton of Mind Enhancement and other EH SEAs that I never even used and also a ton of already modded clothes that would have been worth a fortune at one time too. Personally, I'd rather see them converted with an option to either make them something with RP value (a rare wardrobe item to wear or something like a rare painting or something for your house) or a combat SEA or mod.
Options with conversions have been done before. BE Creatures were able to be made either lowered in stats down to their CL or their CL brought up to their stats when that change happened. Post CU armor is able to be converted to a number of different skins.
It's not such a weird thing for us to ask for. I think the mind crystal from the village should be included with this conversion too.
Reachwind
Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:18 pm
#47
I really feel for Sirii, she is a really amazing person and deserves this tiny slice of the game. There is really no other role like entertainer in any game (expect maybe UO's beggar which is my all time favorite profession in a game.) Sadly though gamers don't understand RP and RP based professions. They need buttons to push and need to see results for those buttons they pressed otherwise they get bored. People like Sirii just need people to be around them to make what they do possible. We have already seen first hand what buffs do for professions in games. Every game that has some kind of long term buffing/utility process has bots. Bots are easy to set up and painless to run on most highend gaming computers and with cable/broadband internet access can be online 24/7.
Panthu you pushed for a gamer's version of entertainer at the expense of the player that entertainer was put into the game for while you were the correspondent and a community leader. I remember talking to Flawed Diamond on Bria one night about what was going to happen to entertainer and she pretty much predicted this very outcome with you standing up and clapping as the last of the social entertainers was escorted out of the room. I can totally understand why Sirii would expect you to flame her, she is the kind of entertainer that you have always thought was holding back the vision you had for entertainer and you have always been one of the first people to rebuke her opinions and disagree with her ideas (unless the idea could be worked into a gamer's version of entertainer.)
The version of entetrainer you guys have on the live servers right now is fine. No need to take anything at all away from it.
Panthu you pushed for a gamer's version of entertainer at the expense of the player that entertainer was put into the game for while you were the correspondent and a community leader. I remember talking to Flawed Diamond on Bria one night about what was going to happen to entertainer and she pretty much predicted this very outcome with you standing up and clapping as the last of the social entertainers was escorted out of the room. I can totally understand why Sirii would expect you to flame her, she is the kind of entertainer that you have always thought was holding back the vision you had for entertainer and you have always been one of the first people to rebuke her opinions and disagree with her ideas (unless the idea could be worked into a gamer's version of entertainer.)
The version of entetrainer you guys have on the live servers right now is fine. No need to take anything at all away from it.
Panthu
Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:02 pm
#48
Reachwind wrote:
Panthu you pushed for a gamer's version of entertainer at the expense of the player that entertainer was put into the game for while you were the correspondent and a community leader.
Yes, I wanted us to be Bards... when I was a total freaking noob and had no idea wth I was talking about. I moved from Bard to Other Doc to Social Enhancer and in game Artist with my own personal opinion, but you guys want to obsess over things that I said early on. Well, woot. BFD. You think I'm a Bard Lover who wants us out in the thick of battle doing combat rounds.
Sooo, have you read that we're getting combat levels and huge mezzing powers with our new changes? If I'm an evil bard loving l33t gamer who's gotten my way above the wishes of all the other posters (including Tiaga and NewJedi who I guess you think were just totally bullied by my awesome Dev influence... news flash, I wasn't the only one in there), where are our combat enhancements?
When will my great master plan of doing battle with my l33t poplocking skillz be patched in? I'm curious to see this great new combat prowess I designed for us and the Devs jumped right on because I said to make it so.
BTW, this is only really truly lmfao kind of funnyif you know that I actually quoted Sirii quite a bit. I also stickied threads by you and Sirii and pointed them out to Devs to read. I guess that was part of my big fat plan to silence you guys too though. Boy I'm tricksy!
Panthu
Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:06 pm
#49
And for the record, Reach. I was a real life female, Bartle tested Social, and extreme in game dancer and flirt even back when I was on the Bard Bus. Which I'm pretty sure all fits me in with the people this Prof group was designed for... way to be narrow minded though.
TabyraLyn
Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:57 am
#50
Well, I'm not posting much neither I'm playing the game that long. I even don't play my Entertainer that long *g*
But....
I really like her, it's fun to play her and talk to the people in the cantina.
But, well... the cantina itself really gets empty and sometimes it's hard to find an active entertainer who can teach you. And now, reading the upcomming changes with removing BF I've also thought about that.
I like watching the active entertainers with my other char and it's fun talking to them. The least I want is them disappear...
My thoughts on the profession, forgive me my language or typing mistakes *g*
Remove BF? I don't mind... BUT then they really need to add something that makes it valuable for other players to watch them besides the social or RP aspect.
I was thinking of some different buffs:
Reduce the actual Inspiration buff to 5% and keep the way you get it.
Add better inspiration buffs to the elite professions, or even to the higher base entertainer line... make them last longer and later even more xp bonus.
Add new buffs... I heard lot of combat classes there are to less ways to speed up action regeneration, think would be a nice idea for a new buff. Make it better the higher you are in the entertainer tree.
Think there can be more buffs, well doesn't matter which exactly.
And the major thing I was thinking off are all the AFK entertainers and how to make them useless:
The way the new buffs are added should be like a kind of minigame....
You decide wich buff you want to apply, the people who wants it have to watch you for this time.
Then you have to dane/play music for 1 or 2 minutes and the game gives you a random queue of flourishes you have to perform to apply the buff.
This would pretend the afk entertainers from giving that buffs as well.
Well, just my thoughts on that. I know I'm not the time in the game most of you are, but I really hope they think about the changes they're making to entertainers. Don't want to lose you and also don't want to lose guests with my own.
Taby
But....
I really like her, it's fun to play her and talk to the people in the cantina.
But, well... the cantina itself really gets empty and sometimes it's hard to find an active entertainer who can teach you. And now, reading the upcomming changes with removing BF I've also thought about that.
I like watching the active entertainers with my other char and it's fun talking to them. The least I want is them disappear...
My thoughts on the profession, forgive me my language or typing mistakes *g*
Remove BF? I don't mind... BUT then they really need to add something that makes it valuable for other players to watch them besides the social or RP aspect.
I was thinking of some different buffs:
Reduce the actual Inspiration buff to 5% and keep the way you get it.
Add better inspiration buffs to the elite professions, or even to the higher base entertainer line... make them last longer and later even more xp bonus.
Add new buffs... I heard lot of combat classes there are to less ways to speed up action regeneration, think would be a nice idea for a new buff. Make it better the higher you are in the entertainer tree.
Think there can be more buffs, well doesn't matter which exactly.
And the major thing I was thinking off are all the AFK entertainers and how to make them useless:
The way the new buffs are added should be like a kind of minigame....
You decide wich buff you want to apply, the people who wants it have to watch you for this time.
Then you have to dane/play music for 1 or 2 minutes and the game gives you a random queue of flourishes you have to perform to apply the buff.
This would pretend the afk entertainers from giving that buffs as well.
Well, just my thoughts on that. I know I'm not the time in the game most of you are, but I really hope they think about the changes they're making to entertainers. Don't want to lose you and also don't want to lose guests with my own.
Taby
Bionic
Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:37 am
#51
Panthu wrote:
Bionic wrote:
That would be nice, as I am still sitting on several broken SEA's (Combat Medic Assembly, etc.) which were not converted with the CU despite assurances they would be.
I hope this isn't a part of our new system just because people have them and want them to still be valuable. I don't think SEAs that modify our new buffs in any way are a good idea if the goal is "entertainment" quality over "functional" quality. SEAs are the stuff bots are made of.
I have a ton of Mind Enhancement and other EH SEAs that I never even used and also a ton of already modded clothes that would have been worth a fortune at one time too. Personally, I'd rather see them converted with an option to either make them something with RP value (a rare wardrobe item to wear or something like a rare painting or something for your house) or a combat SEA or mod.
Options with conversions have been done before. BE Creatures were able to be made either lowered in stats down to their CL or their CL brought up to their stats when that change happened. Post CU armor is able to be converted to a number of different skins.
It's not such a weird thing for us to ask for. I think the mind crystal from the village should be included with this conversion too.
Oh yes, I would love if the SEA's could be converted to things outside of the current spectrum, especially to rare clothing or furniture. I am an Entertainer for the music and for the opportunities to help the server's various events and community feeling. I just have trouble whenever people bring up conversions of items, as all of my MCH's creatures were either nerfed to oblivion or are unable to be called (ever) through that conversion system, and as you mentioned, the mind buff crystal and things of that nature are still in limbo.
And I think one of the things to PRAISE Panthu for is her ability to shift her thoughts and perceptions based on the current situation. Despite what some people think, stubbornness or unwillingness to take a chance is not a strength. I applaud that she has been open and open-minded regarding our professions, and I hope to have for myself and for everyone else the same flexibility and good leadership that she has shown.
st90
Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:41 am
#52
Sounds ;ike they are going to hit the entertainers the same way the combat and medical professions got hit during the Combat Upgrade. Took away wound healing from medics. Took combatants ability to use weapons they already could use, and PPls ability to wear armor.
I feel for what's about to happen to you guys
Kessa -Infinity-
Exploring the galaxy one inch at a time.
I feel for what's about to happen to you guysKessa -Infinity-
Exploring the galaxy one inch at a time.