Entertainer Archive

Thread: Upcoming Changes to Entertainer and its Performance-based elites

Myla
Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:08 pm
#27

As an entertainer, I consider it my job to keep moral up amongst the entire server. A few of us keep together and hold events and organize get togethers that bring the server together. It is just a social class. I do agree their taking soo much away from us and not giving us much of anything in return. I am going to wait before I give up dancing, because it's soo much a part of my character. But I rarely ever dance anymore. They don't seem to need me for much anymore. I used to get requests to dance here and there, which I never get anymore. I don't do combat, for many reasons, and I love swg because I have a place here, but it's slowly being taken away.


I really hope they reconsider these changes.


Sincerely,


Myla Layn





...Myla Layn...
Elder Dancer/Elder Tailor
...Madalyn Loren...
Master Architect & Interior Designer
...Kaylene Loren...
Medic
......................................
Owner of The Travelling Gypsy Cantina
Mariki
Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:54 pm
#28






Myla wrote:

As an entertainer, I consider it my job to keep moral up amongst the entire server. A few of us keep together and hold events and organize get togethers that bring the server together. It is just a social class. I do agree their taking soo much away from us and not giving us much of anything in return. I am going to wait before I give up dancing, because it's soo much a part of my character. But I rarely ever dance anymore. They don't seem to need me for much anymore. I used to get requests to dance here and there, which I never get anymore. I don't do combat, for many reasons, and I love swg because I have a place here, but it's slowly being taken away.


I really hope they reconsider these changes.


Sincerely,


Myla Layn








Hi Myla,


I agree 100% with everything you said, but think about it. When we do an event or a gig, the people who attend aren't there because they need their mind or BF healed. They aren't there for a 10% inspiration buff. They are there for the social and RP aspects. They are there because these type of things are more part of the star wars universe then shooting spineflaps and durnies. Actually in thepast couple weeks I have seen a marked improvement in attendance at our weekly Thursday night parties. People are finally returning from wooky world or something. I am not sure there was ever a real matter of "need" exceptperhaps our need to be creative with the limited tools at our disposal.


But you and surely everyone else has seen the massive decline of entertainers. With the respec and now the token respec we are faced with some serious choices. Almost all the content in this game is combat oriented. That little number by your name determines if you can even drive you AV-21 across even a peaceful planet like naboo anymore. The CU made you a easy target and you certainly have to decide if the entertainer professions are worth having in this climate. Sure we want to entertain and we actually provide content in this game for other people to enjoy but at a significant cost to us as far as skill points.


I was at a crossroad a month ago and had prepared to drop my entertainer. Before the CU she ran a entertainers PA with over 30 entertainers, gone. She is also a member of the oldest band on kettmoor and the writer of origonal songs.Watching EP-3 gave me a lil jumpstart and I decided oh heck, I'll go another month and see what happens. Nearing the end of that month and I see more handwriting on the walls for the negative with nothing positive in sight. I know how you feel. I am also tired of waiting for promises that never materialize... for years...


Its taking me two years to realise its futile to ask for anything for our proffesions so how can we be happy with what we have? How can we stop the bleed that has been occuring for over a year? Well they keep taking away everything core to this game that our proffesions gave, surely they must realize they have taken away everything of value except what we give to the game itself. They surely must see that it is unreasonable for us to have to invest our skillpoints for doing their jobs, providing content.There is no real income, we don't do it for that, this is a hobby, an RP experience. This would be like costing us RP to go for a swim or fish at Lake Retreat.


I doubt it will happen but I am looking for them to do the right thing. I'm fine with this being a RP proffession but I am not fine with not being able to do anything else because my SP is all tied up. I'm not fine with having a combat rating so low that I can't drive a vehicle across naboo without the very real possibility of getting killed. I'm in a proffession that provides entertainment to everyone else but I have to carry the costs. These are the only proffessions with no form of viable income and one afker can service the entire server. I think the argument is undeniable that these proffessions should carry no SP costs.



Mariki Lee, Ex Rifleman
Last day Dec 2nd
Death by NGE
- All Hope Gone
canova
Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:00 am
#29






Panthu wrote:


Anyway, that said, the rumor from the Breakfast, E3, and FF has been that we'd be getting other buffs to do as well as the current Inspiration buffs we have now. The rumor is also that these new buffs are intended to be ATK only.


I'm guessing that our corrs haven't given us the details about these new buffs yet (that were even mentioned by a dev in here) because the details are still being worked out and they aren't ready to make an announcement about them yet.



Maybe this should be included in the initial post, so that everyone would not freak out reading it and replying without knowing that.







I'es Calipija
.......:::: Elder Matron of the Insurgent Sisterhood ::::.......
.......:::: Mayor of New Haven ::::.......
.......:::: President & Founder of the Save Our Bantha Association S.O.B.A. ::::.......

The forum Rabid Weasel - Make Instant Travel Ship a vet reward !
DivaShowtime
Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:30 am
#30








darkk1138 wrote:
(cut)


The Elite professions would cost
6 SP for novice, 1 SP for master, while the boxes in between don't cost any SP at all.


(cut)





That is a nice idea to remove the needed skillpoints from the tier1-4 skills in the elite professions.


No change will be needed on the entertainer skills, it may be done fasttoreduce the neededskill pointsfor our entertainer elite professions that way. Your skill point reduction idea will also prevent us from seeing ent/dance/music/ID master at every corner because it will still cost some skillpointsbeside the time that is needed to get the XPs to learn the skills.




......................................................................................................
there is no biz like showbiz
Sylow
Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:41 am
#31









[...]

The Elite professions would cost
6 SP for novice, 1 SP for master, while the boxes in between don't cost any SP at all.


[...]





Or drop skillpoint requirements for the Elite professions completely and keep Skillpoint-Requirement on Entertainerthe way they currently are. (Also keep two branches of the Entertainer as requirement for Musician or Dancer. )


A master musician would still kost 43 skillpoints, much more than most people would be ready to sacrifice but still cheap enough that a double combat master is able to get into one of the entertainer professions if he wants to.


I personally would love it. I would have to somewhat reduce my combat ability, but i'd be ready to pay that price while most "true" combat people are not ready to take this step. (Most combat people want/need all skillpoints in combat skills, as only then they can get the maximum on firepower/defense/special abilities. As a Squad Leader, i let my team have those and can have a bit more fun... *grin* )

Message Edited by Sylow on 06-22-2005 03:45 PM






Learn to sing!
Infinity - Papyn Biboon
MSL, MCarb Grunt Leader
darkk1138
Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:03 am
#32



Sylow wrote:


[...]

The Elite professions would cost
6 SP for novice, 1 SP for master, while the boxes in between don't cost any SP at all.

[...]


Or drop skillpoint requirements for the Elite professions completely and keep Skillpoint-Requirement on Entertainer the way they currently are. (Also keep two branches of the Entertainer as requirement for Musician or Dancer. )

A master musician would still kost 43 skillpoints, much more than most people would be ready to sacrifice but still cheap enough that a double combat master is able to get into one of the entertainer professions if he wants to.

I personally would love it. I would have to somewhat reduce my combat ability, but i'd be ready to pay that price while most "true" combat people are not ready to take this step. (Most combat people want/need all skillpoints in combat skills, as only then they can get the maximum on firepower/defense/special abilities. As a Squad Leader, i let my team have those and can have a bit more fun... *grin* )

Message Edited by Sylow on 06-22-2005 03:45 PM





Well, you can still get Level 80 if Single Ent Elite Master costed 50SP.

Take two Marksman Elite Skills, you've used 183 SP. Place for an Ent Elite and even Scout 1000.

I think, regardless of how much the base profession costs, at least novice and master must eat skillpoints. Don't ask why. My intiuition says that is right. =)



--

Darkk (et alts)

[ CombatLevelsand QuestXPCaps | My IdeasforSWG | UI/Targeting proposal ]

Chapter 5 needs thongs!
Panthu
Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:12 am
#33






canova wrote:





Panthu wrote:


Anyway, that said, the rumor from the Breakfast, E3, and FF has been that we'd be getting other buffs to do as well as the current Inspiration buffs we have now. The rumor is also that these new buffs are intended to be ATK only.


I'm guessing that our corrs haven't given us the details about these new buffs yet (that were even mentioned by a dev in here) because the details are still being worked out and they aren't ready to make an announcement about them yet.



Maybe this should be included in the initial post, so that everyone would not freak out reading it and replying without knowing that.





Hmm, I don't think you caught my meaning. I don't think the Corrs are being encouraged to (read can't) talk about these buffs yet. I think a lot of people in here misunderstand the role of prof Corrs. They work for us, the players, but they have to go by the rules set by the Devs and the Community Relations team (Tiggs, TH).


If details are still being worked out on something, even if it's a sure thing that it's going to happen in one form or another, Corrs are usually asked to hold off until all of the little details are set.


Also, sometimes they want big announcements to come from a Red tag instead of a Corr. Sometimes they want to wait until it's in patch notes on TC. Sometimes they want to do an In Development thread. *shrug*


Point being, try to chill. It's going to happen and the Corrs will start talking to us about it as soon as they can.




P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

PoetDancer
Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:49 pm
#34

There is no point in discussing, because these developers will do these things whether it is good for us or not.


It seems that the developers are punishing us because we as a group of professions have not been able to play the professions with enthusiasm, class, technique, dignity, and fun. Those vast numbers of unattended entertainers who have made the cantinas into the state they are in now have certainly motivated the developers to take steps so that the patrons need not ever spare the agony of going there.


In short, all this looks like to me is that we who have been swimming against the tide of apathy and neglect are being punished, because we couldn't find a way to make it work. We are being punished for the sins of bad, unattendedperformers. And as a result, we will no longer serve a vital role, and we will no longer have a certain, stable, and consistant platform to showcase our talents.


BF was a great equalizer that everyone shared. It was a universally valid necessity that united noob and veteran, power player and roleplayer, and PvP and PvE. It never afforded an advantage or disadvantage to anyone who could coax it out of us. It simply happened with time: time that was set aside for us to do our show.


But buffs? Buffs are a luxury designed to put one player above another. But just because they are luxuries does not mean they do not create the need to create unattended alts. In fact, what better way for a guild to place themselves above everyone else than by buying a plethora of alts just to have access to these luxuries 24/7? Wants become needs, and moreover, the problem with buffing needs is that there is only the incentive to have access to them, and absolutely no incentive to reward the ones who make them amusing.


If it gives an advantage to the recepient, and it is worth enough to seek us out to give it, then it is TWICE as advantageous to make it so they need not seek us out to get it. Its the mind buff situation all over again, and I wouldn't put it past the management of this game to miss the sort of revenue unattended alts give to them.


And if the advantages aren't all that advantageous, not enough to promote the purchase of an unattended alt to distribute these things, then why would anyone really have an incentive to see us at all?


BF was something that was the friend of the common gamer, because no matter who you were, even the most "1337" of us would wear down. It provided a much needed rotational mechanic so that players couldn't hog content, while still maintaining enough playability--even at high levels--so that none could ever accuse us of "preventing play."


I know that I'm soon going to have Chessak, Panthu, and all of them flame me for my desperate plea to preservethe last remaining aspect of my performance that I had at launch to help cement the bond between myself and my patrons ripped from me. I was good at the elegant, simple, and creative game I had at launch. I was happy then.


But nothing I can do will change this. We are being punished as a profession because we have failed to meet their expectations. And it doesn't matter if I tried with every ounce of my effort to make the patrons enjoy tending to their BF. I will have that responsibility taken from me. No matter what I say.





Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Squeakyshoes
Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:31 am
#35

how about making entertainers (maybe artisans too?) skills cost only 1 sp per every skill box. So when someone decides to go this way they can pick additional profs to be of any use and fun when they get bored dancing for themselves





- I support myself. You can too !
Panthu
Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:35 am
#36






PoetDancer wrote:

I know that I'm soon going to have Chessak, Panthu, and all of them flame me for my desperate plea to preservethe last remaining aspect of my performance that I had at launch to help cement the bond between myself and my patrons ripped from me.





What? I don't flame, silly Dancer. Anyway, no, I think you have a right to that opinion. I also think you've made it very well known.


If BF really was equal and fair, I think it would be more like the Universal Fatigue we talked about once. So everyone really did get it. I also think having what Caylin and some of the other combat corrs talked about once called "positive BF" would have made it make more sense and be a fuller game mechanic.


I also think it would have needed to actually have some noticeable side effects beyond just making it a pain to med heal someone. It should have worked like a daze at max fatigue so all you could do would be get to a BF soother. I also think there should have been options with various degrees of penalties: Chef Foods, Smug Spices, maybe the Ent Band Aid buff we talked about for the field.


The fact is, with its weak contrived one sided implementation, I think BF was a flop and generally not fun. That's just my opinion though. I don't expect everyone to share it. I think we're going to be better off with out it since it wasn't going to be improved. I hope everyone is happy with the changes in the end.






P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

LyteFoot
Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:53 am
#37

I think without BF you will rarely if ever see combat players toons clapping their hands again. This really does seperate us completely and remove any need for people to spend time with entertainers. Most players don't go to entertainers because they are fun they go because they must. That doesn't mean they won't seek out the best and most entertaining when they go, but it does mean they don't need to go. Buffs can be good but I have no faith that the devs will do those right. I'm also not interested in becoming simply a buff machine, that is what leads to bots.

I know Sirii and I want different games on some levels but I agree with her, this really is simply punishing us to try and stop the AFK performers. All that instead of doing the right thing and disabling AFK play itself.



Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
canova
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:22 am
#38

I am not so sure about this...


I tend to spend more time now in cantinas than I used to preCU. Why? cause PreCU it was hard to find master Dancers/Musicians not afk willing to buff you, you had to send tons of tells to afk entertainers... then it took ages to meet and get the buff... was a lot of hassle that I would only care about when PVPing and then usually we would bring over our entertainer with us. food was good enough as mind buff and faster to get for PVE.

And when I really felt like I needed a mind buff, I would rather go to one of those small popular outposts where buffbots were buffing afk 24/7 for sure.

Now I always go to get an inspiration buff. Why? Cause when you are grinding combat XP or FP, 10% is actually a lot. So I go to the nearest cantina, I look at the entertainers, choose the one NOT AFK (I don't really care for the level anymore),target him/her and tip him decently. And I do it with my crafter too now.


Now is the removal of the healing part critical? (bf or wounds?). I am sincerely not sure. People would act the same in both cases. Coming to the cantina, watching / listening some entertainers randomly choosen while keeping to chat wiht thier group/guildmates... And waiting for the bf to be deleted hoping this would last as less as possible.

So I don't see why a buffing ability is more detrimental to entertainers than a healing ability.


Now imagine that they come up with some various and rich ideas of buffs, a large variety, and sinrely there is no reason why you would end up with less people in cantinas than there is currently.






I'es Calipija
.......:::: Elder Matron of the Insurgent Sisterhood ::::.......
.......:::: Mayor of New Haven ::::.......
.......:::: President & Founder of the Save Our Bantha Association S.O.B.A. ::::.......

The forum Rabid Weasel - Make Instant Travel Ship a vet reward !
DarthKthuolhu
Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:14 pm
#39

So I was wondering...

What about removing ID from Entertainer; make ID a Novice Prof somehow, and then add a new tree to Ent, say... A Voice Tree?

Entertainers can then; Sing, Dance, and play Music.. just like real Entertainers!

I'd love to add Master Entertainer on the side of my Master Dancer... but I don't want to go through the ID tree because I have no use for that stuff. So I just thought ths sort of change, however unlikely... would be interesting, and frankly I'm surprised Entertainer wasn't set up that way in the first place.

I also don't know it it has come up before... Search doesn't seem to work at all any more these days, so sorry if it has.
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