Entertainer Archive

Thread: Healing XP slowing to a snail's pace?

NickHeel
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:36 am
#40

Wow...poor entertainers.


I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me. From my experience as a community leader for the Smuggler Forum, I must say that the Devs really have no idea what increases content and immersion with this game.I mean, I've known this for a while. Just...stating the obvious.


While I agree with adding things to entertainers to actually make them entertaining, I don't think that should cause them to lose usefullness. Always add content and player interaction in a massively multiplayer game...never remove it.





THE LEGENDARY CAPTAIN N'JOH SONIK OF ORD MANTELL
Independent Smuggler N Pilot of the Famous Sonik Rogue N Forever, The Most Legendary and Greatest Smuggler on Tarquinas
MoyaWookiee
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:44 am
#41






JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.

We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.








See, at this point the entertainment "professions" have become nothing more than hobbies. I am fortunate that I do not need to make any credits off the profession any longer. But if I was starting musician now, as a noob, I know I would not have stayed in it long enough to master. My tips were bad enough when people actually needed my services.


If you are reducing these things to hobbies, then why not make the skills cost no skill points? Then, we can use those points for actual professions and just do our dancing and music for fun.





Moya' the Wookiee
Galactic Senator Moyakoshkakyrit of the Koshka Clan

Wookiee Cultural Center (Symphonia, Naboo -3187, 683)
Kashyyykian Museum of Tatooine (Mos Tyrenia, 5581, 4274)
Wookiee Cultural Center Web Site ~ WCC - Galactic Hotspot


Tralmek
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:45 am
#42

Thanks for posting here, JFreeman.

Message Edited by Tralmek on 06-17-2005 12:45 PM




Feeling no connection with the Force since 2003
*feels an outer glow*. The HAWT side is with me
Have a question? Read the Stickies!
Remember: Only YOU can prevent forum fires
!
Official AFKophobe


omadnay
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:45 am
#43

The changes will happen and hopefully they'll be good, but I wanted to share my thoughts, as a Player since launch, an Entertainer from the start, an explorer and adventurer and veteran Master Musician... more importantly as a Star Wars Fan and a SWG Fan.

I thought that one of the most brilliant aspects of this game was how several different facets of gameplay all interweaved with eachother into one large game-world.

When this game started, the cantina was the center-piece for all characters to meet and socialize (Except for Crafters, which I thought was a mistake... crafters should have built up Fatigue as well and needed some entertainment).

The fact that the game mechanics were designed to make the cantina a necessary place to go was not only a great way to intertwine the Entertainers' roles with the Combatants' roles, but it also served to create a realistic simulation of how things work.
It is a fact that people of our collective societies need some form of entertainment... people seem lost without it.
Making it coded in as a necessary game-mechanic sealed the deal and gave this game a more organic nature than any other game beforehand.

The cantinas were crawling with socialization. It's where hunting groups were formed, where business contacts were made, where friends could be made/found, it's where you came to take a break and it's where you neded to go to heal your battle fatigue.

AFK Play really destroyed the nature of this environment.

I'm not afraid of changes or trying to cling to what was...
I just see those things of the past as great things... and I don't see this change as being for the better.

However, it is designs like this that made me realize that the Entertainer Professions will never be designed to be more like I would enjoy... thus I have dropped it (After holding on since the game's beginning).


So, good luck to my beloved Entertainers... and I do hope that the Devs realize that these changes are not entirely about Entertainers... the nature of this game's community.

I see all of these changes as a path that turns away from the original designs that were great and held ideals that should have been fought for.

The Development Team should have fought to keep the Cantina and the Entertainers the way the game at launch had them geared towards...
instead, they let them fall away and have given in to the anit-social demands that have plagued this community.


All I mean to say in this post is that those original designs for having the Cantina as a center of social gathering, due to game mechanics, was a brilliant way to foster a solid community.

That fell away the moment people realized they could keep a 24 hour AFK entertainer parked where ever they liked.

I see these changes as trading ideals for practicalities...




May the force be with you.

- Omadda Szool
Kauri

Dreacle
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:46 am
#44


Ok, so people won't visit cantinas as often if there is no BF, but the ones that actually DO want to socialize and have the cantina atomosphere still will... Right?


Just like the shuttle waits, the people that didn't care to socialize were now able to hop on and go, while those that thought the shuttle wait times were good for interaction can still sit around and "waste" time between trips.


Forcing people to go to a cantina, wait for a shuttle, sit in a hospital etc, does not necessarily force them to interact. So why do you care if the people that don't want to socialize no longer are forced to sit there like an npc for 5 mins or whatever to get rid of BF?


(you and take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink)


Or are you assuming that even the ones that like to socialize will no longer wish to gather with like minded individuals? In which case I would say, if you have to force people that WANT to socialize together, then maybe the problem isn't with the system, but with the people??


Just my thoughts on forcing people to do anything they don't want to do.


Cheers

Dreacle

Wanderhome.
Skuzz
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:47 am
#45

Well glad to hear there is some thought being put towards the ents. They are truley in sad shape at present.

Ive had a master musician since shortly after launch and i cant for the life of me figure out how to make him useful in the post CU game. Its quite grim. There absolutely has to be something more then inspiration buffs to make ents useful. There are many many players that simply dont need xp because they have reached their desired template, not to mention the actual xp gain from an inspiration buff is nominal. Since the CU has went live ive gotten exactly ...one... request for an inspiration buff. nd im pretty sure this is typical for most ents.

Please do something to help make ents useful and fun again, we are begging ya jfreeman & crew





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Gaitan
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:50 am
#46






MoyaWookiee wrote:





JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.

We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.








See, at this point the entertainment "professions" have become nothing more than hobbies. I am fortunate that I do not need to make any credits off the profession any longer. But if I was starting musician now, as a noob, I know I would not have stayed in it long enough to master. My tips were bad enough when people actually needed my services.


If you are reducing these things to hobbies, then why not make the skills cost no skill points? Then, we can use those points for actual professions and just do our dancing and music for fun.








Came in here because someone announced the removal of BF in another forum. I just want to say that I agree 100% with the idea that if the Devs are going to make Entertainer professions a "hobby", they should cost no skill points at all.






Gaitan
Master Spy
Elder Smuggler, Imperial Colonel.
gera
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:53 am
#47






MoyaWookiee wrote:





JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.

We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.








See, at this point the entertainment "professions" have become nothing more than hobbies. I am fortunate that I do not need to make any credits off the profession any longer. But if I was starting musician now, as a noob, I know I would not have stayed in it long enough to master. My tips were bad enough when people actually needed my services.


If you are reducing these things to hobbies, then why not make the skills cost no skill points? Then, we can use those points for actual professions and just do our dancing and music for fun.








Agreed here. Really it is getting lesser and lesser in every cantina and dying slowly. I do not believe removing BF is a good line. At least we step into cantina time to time even "forced to do".


On the other hand, making entertainer proffessions completely skill point free also what I would like to see and me want to get my proffessions again. However, everyone being master dancer/musician/entertaienr would kinda hurt the immersion. How can a thug that has death-sentence in 12 systems can play something efficiently ?





Armor removed from Jedi so they can be kited 'as designed' - Blixtev

DarthMinos
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:53 am
#48


Getting rid of battle fatigue is one way of addressing the problem, but I'd prefer to see it in game.


After battle fatigue is gone, the only people entertainers will be entertaining will be themselves.


Cantinas just seem to be part of the Star Wars universe, and I love having a reason to go to them for something that I need and can expect to see other players there.


I'd highly encourage leaving it in game. If you can't, I'd suggest that you give players another reason to WANT to go to cantinas. As much as I like social interaction, just watching entertainers do stuff with their props probably won't be enough to get me or other players to stop bye.


Since so many other professions are needed in game now (crafters for weapons and armor, doctors for wound healing, smugglers for slices, etc.), it doesn't seem fair to remove the usefulness, the reason why most players seek out entertainers.


Suggestion: make the inspiration buffs better and do more things.



Rieke Mysadwy--Pre-CU Jedi (MLS, MDef, Nov Healer, 3xx2 Enh) & Professional Scoundrel, Leader of CCEF
Davaj Knyghtsyde--Bounty Hunter
Trawwl--Wookiee Commando
Grewaulk--Rodian Structures Trader

Loot and Structures Vendor at: -2634 -9, Caldara Cove on Dantooine
FFNogoodnik
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:57 am
#49






JFreeman wrote:





Cutedge wrote:


Since you're removing BF or planning to do so, can we at least get confirmation that won't be doing the same to wounds?



I'm not even an entertainer. I came here trolling the dev tracker, but please don't remove BF. Make it heal faster, but don't remove the need for it.


SWG is unique because it forces interaction between players. You are required to find a doctor. You have to find an entertainer and watch/listen. You used to have to wait with others for shuttles. It promotes healthy interaction with fellow members of the community. Please don't change this.



Message Edited by Cutedge on 06-17-2005 01:19 PM





We want entertainers to be more like 'entertainers', and less like 'healers'.

In general, we don't want to force interaction. You should go to watch an entertainer because you want to, not because you have to. It'll be better for this to be a positive interaction ("I go see an entertainer to get something good") rather than a negative interaction ("I go see an entertainer in order to get rid of something bad").







In general you (meaining the devs) do not want to force interaction but you force the doctors to be in combat.


I was always under the impression that Battle Fatigue simply represented the emotional effect of battle had on the player and that is why the players went to see the entertainers. When I have a bad day at work I sometimes feel like going out and relaxing that is what the entertainers does, they help you relax. It, actually is one of the most realistic aspects of SWG.


The inspiration buff does absoulutly nothing for me. I have maxed out on xp, the cu took away all the usefull crafting I can do and i am nuetral so I do not care about faction points.


I hope for all the entertainers that they Battle fatigue is not removed from the game.


Dr. Frostbite Nogoodnik


Tarquinas







Dr. Frostbite Nogoodnik
Even though in the NGE I am a medic I did not spend
6 years in Evil Medical School to be called Mister,
Thank you very much.
ArthurDentOnBria
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:57 am
#50



JFreeman,


This sounds fine to me if it's what entertainers want. If the motivation though is to do away with battle-fatigue heal downtime for combat-types, then I'd suggest attacking the medical wounds rather than battle fatigue, because that is the far more difficult one to get healed. But if it's for the sake of entertainers, then cool.


As far as the entertainer changes go, all I ask is that you keep the crafters in mind when you make these changes. There are existing products like myoflex (bio-engineers), exquisite leotards (tailors) that are tied to the battle-fatigue healing system. It would sure be nice if these things were integrated with the new entertainer stuff whatever it may be, rather than just forgotten, which has become the standard expectation over the last 2 years.





JFreeman wrote:
We want entertainers to be more like 'entertainers', and less like 'healers'.

In general, we don't want to force interaction. You should go to watch an entertainer because you want to, not because you have to. It'll be better for this to be a positive interaction ("I go see an entertainer to get something good") rather than a negative interaction ("I go see an entertainer in order to get rid of something bad").







Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 06-17-2005 01:51 PM



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


Iwoow
Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:59 am
#51

lol let me put this in the simplest way possible



Entertainer time to grind > Jedi time to grind....lmfao



________________________
Gorath
MakavelliUnknown
SoltarisShipwright
Fragpuppie
Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:04 pm
#52






JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.

We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.





I would like to say that this confuses me.


Yes we feel that the healing XP takes too long now, but I do not see how this can solve the issues.


To be nit picky....you say that the (potential) changes are to change the 'healing' line to 'props'. Which healiong line do you mean? Are you referring to the healing line in Entertainer? Or the Wound healing or Battle Fatigue healing lines in Dancer and Music? Will that line now have to be gained by crafting props? (not saying that it is, but would like to know the thoughts on it....we are not crafters by trade) Musician crafting gives us Music XP, but a separate crafting XP for items that noone but us can use would be silly. You say thta you are "incresing the xp rate gain overall" meaning what? For music and dance? for the healing XP we get from inspires? Removing BF from the game would give all elite master entertainers 2 lines of useless skills. Even if BF is replaced by props it would make it no better than the Tech tree that only gives us visual effects.


You say that there are "profession specific inspiration buffs for non combat professions" coming, but what that implies is that those are not coming soon(tm) but later??


You say in a later post that you want interaction to be positive not negative, but how about the implementation of changes to our professions working the same way. Can we get POSITIVE changes when you implement NEGATIVE changes. We all got hit badly with the CU. We lost income viability for buffs. We lost efficiency in attaining masteries. We lost the ability to perform to our potential with a VERY limiting group size of 8. We lost skills and benefits from our skill trees. Since then we have gotten "/covercharge" which does us no good.


We have been asking for many things, removal of AFK being number 1. Ideas have come out from us to INCRESE the role of BF, not to eliminate it. Are you listening to the professions at all? Why do you keep making changes that A) we didn't ask for and B) make us less functional in the greater game?



Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra


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