Entertainer Archive
Thread: AFK Macro-ing
Honestly, I just started a dancer and I'm a AFKMing fool. I play early in the morning usually and I can't tell ya how many times I wish there had been an AFKM dancer to heal me up. I have had to travel to different planets sometimes to get healed up... talk about un-fun, un-productive time shuttling from place to place just to heal up from one kill - Ugh!
I see your point about stealing tips from the at-the-keyboard dancers/musicians though and that is an unfortunate side effect to my method. I willl put a message on my macro that says tip the girl/guy who Is here, im AFK at the moment. Would that make some of you anti-AFK folks happy?
Respectfully though, I'm not moving to the back of the bar. I feel like there is a need for a constant entertainer presence at cantina's and I know that my presence, espically if I'm grouped, helps get the customer in and out faster and back to their gaming. Perhaps there is some middle ground where the AFK/Anti-AFK folks can come together and find agreement in this matter.
I def see your point Chessak, and I'm starting to think that the crux of this arguement is not on morality (the right and wrong of it all more than gaming outlook)
I am a hunter-gatherer-builder. I enjoy the action of the kill and the satifaction of a well made gun. I like admin-logistics challenge of a builder who runs a businessselling guns and the constant challenge of finding ways to perfect the warrior so he can tackle the truley big game out there in the galaxy.
You seem to be the RPG variety. If I may generalize... my oberservation is that your enjoyment isn't so muchthe manipulation of the system to maximise your effectivness, rather its the social interaction that comes from others responding to your Dance or Music. Perhaps your even more left brained (creative) rather than my anylitical approach to the game. No doubt you work hard finding the right outfit and combination of dance moves and flourishes which increase the cantina experience for your customers. i would be lying if I didnt say that I have a new appreciation for the programming that has gone into the dancer profession since I started one... I do sometimes like to sit and watch my toon dance, I chuckle when she falls, I have even started looking for better clothes for my girley... but I don't enjoy the social interaction in the cantina. I dont drink in real life no do I hang out in bars so that "environment" is not a curiosity for me.
I look at dancers like I look at medics... a need. Without them I dont continue fighting. My dancer will fill that need for others like me who appreciate the effort, always tip, and move out promptly when the BF is gone. she will be unto me a business that gathers revinue to fund my adventuring. She will be a tailor and perhaps a TK fighter if I take her out into combat. (I stat migrated the heck out of her health so she may never see combat - who knows.)
Anyway, perhaps its my "outlook" on the game that allows me to be ethicly supportive of the AFKM community (that includes mining btw). But try and understand that I need to enjoy my time that I pay for the same way you do, and for now that includes AFK Dancing...
Unfortunatly Im rushed to hit enter here.. I wish I could expound on this further.
I never realized how many others out there agree with me.
Like I said earlier, I AFK-macro sometimes, but in out of the way places no one go toanyways.
The main reason why I do it is so I can get access to new songs and music sooner(I want to be a musician).
I only AFK-macro when I'm doing something IRL. Otherwise, I actually try to go out and greet people in the cantina or do a few missions to get some money.
Before I had the conflict and left Kadaara, I was amazed to see an AFK-macroer return to the cantina.
She had been gone for several days if not a whole week, and I figured she achieved master already and left for good.
Much earlier in this thread, Barthes stated:
"I think this game is designed to be played (and enjoyed) after master skills (while other MMORPGS are designed to let you 'suffer' your character building)."
This is completely false logic.
90% of the fun of ANY game is watching your character grow and guiding him/her through their adventures with the ultimate goal of being a Master of your profession.
If the game was designed to be played (and enjoyed) as a Master, then why have a leveling system at all?
Why don't they just make everyone as Masters of every profession and leave it at that?
This flawed logic of Barthes' baffles me.
Sorry, I was thinking at work today and realized I did not address that post in my previous post.
Though I am very adamantly at my computer when online, I used to be apathetic to AFK-macroers. To each his own, I'd think, especially for the pro-AFKM reasons stated above.
This past week has completely made up my mind, however. AFMMers used to be content with sitting in their quiet little corner doing their own thing. They used to be content being away from the group, and indeed, everyone. They used to be content going solo while they were AFK. They used to be courteous to those who were actively playing their characters.
Last night, I just got fed up. There is a master musician that comes every day to the cantina I'm almost always at. He says nothing, but his routine is very predictable. He comes in, plops down his nalagron near the bar, prods for an invite to the group until he gets one, then starts his AFK macro and is never to be heard from again for 12hrs or more. Fine...whatever...suit yourself, I say.
Well last night, this fellow comes in as usual, except he plops his nalargon facing inward toward the cantina, right on the steps in the entryway and starts his AFK macro. He doesn't move from that spot the entire night..we're talking another 10 hours. I'm getting slightly peeved at this point.So I look around and there are four other well-known AFK macroers doing their AFKM bit right in the middle of the cantina floor. There were two of us there that were actively playing our characters. The AFKMers outnumbered us! Not only that but one of them had a /shout in the macro that begged for tips, and another had a /say that was just as annoying.
So then I'm watching the people who come in the cantina. They come in, sit down, /listen and say nothing. As soon as they are healed they leave without a word. Coming from a time when people would sit and listen/interact even beyond when they finished healing, it was clear to me that they did not enjoy being in the cantina. So here's the two of us, trying to level ourselves and have fun. We can't invite any of the AFKMers because, well...they aren't at their computer to accept. We aren't getting entertainer healing exp because people can't even find us among the AFKMers. We aren't getting tipped, because frankly, if people see (AFK) spamming their screen, they aren't going to try very hard to find someone who is actually there.
I'm fed up at this point. We try to take matters into our own hands, and move to the entryway of the cantina (ahead of that **** nalargon that's blocking the entry) and greet everyone who comes in.About 20 minuteslater, one of the AFKMers pops 'online' and wants to be invited to the group. I'm too peeved about the whole situation by this point, so I tell him so and refuse to invite. Then it turns into a huge argument about how I'm being a jerk and so on and so forth. The result? I have to leave my home cantina and play somewhere else. Thanks a lot.
So here's my new stance. I'm mildly upset that people can obtain a Master Musician/Dancer title without even playing the game. I'm apathetic still to the people who do so in places that aren't occupied by live people. Someone starts an AFK macro while in my group, they get the boot. And since there's nothing I can do about the people that decide that they have to occupy the main floor, the only thing I have for them is what they give to me: disrespect.
Listen...all other reasons aside, the one reason that is good enough in my mind for not AFK-macroing is that it's against the rules. Why? Because it's not the way the game was intended to be played. Because it occupies an active character slot on an already heavily loaded server (yes, twice I've not been able to get on because the server was FULL). Because it cheapens everything about the entire profession.
But...my cry falls on deaf ears. I was not able to convince the person I argued with after hours of discussion with him. I will not be able to convince anyone here. But I wanted to state my reasons.
Excellent post.
There are lots of good cantinas out there with active players and customers. Just move around till you find one.
YES, it is annoying that these AFKMers (hee hee, mild cackle of glee that my acronym has caught on) are the ones staying and you have to leave. By rights it ought to be the other way 'round.
But the bottom line is a game is supposed to be fun. If you aren't having fun, change things until you do.
The good news is, the AFKMers have no investment in or love of their profession. The master musician is a fluke. Most people quit AFKMing and quit the profession in general as soon as they AFKM their way to Master (I guess they move on to something even more challenging, like AFKM surveying). Eventually this will work out. They will go away, because they have no investment in the profession.
C
Yeah people, quit whining, its thier right to breeze thier way through what others work very hard for.
OH WAIT.
StormyIC wrote:Honestly, I just started a dancer and I'm a AFKMing fool. I play early in the morning usually and I can't tell ya how many times I wish there had been an AFKM dancer to heal me up. I have had to travel to different planets sometimes to get healed up... talk about un-fun, un-productive time shuttling from place to place just to heal up from one kill - Ugh!
I understand this but you have to realize that in part this is due to the entire AFKM attitude to begin with. I don't want to over-generalize, but in my (now month long) experience, I have never seen an AFKMed Master Musician or Dancer keep doing the profession after they reach Master. Most are never seen or heard from again. Why should they keep dancing, after all? Their interest was in levelling (obviously, or they wouldn't have AFKMed in the first place), and their levelling is done. Time to go find something else to do.
AFKMers are, at best, a very temporary solution. They will leave the class as soon as they finish powerlevelling, or make up a PC on a different server, or whatever, and start powerlevelling in that instead. What does that leave you with? Empty cantinas.
The salvation for other players who need the healing, in the long term is thus not the AFKMer, but rather, people like Sinda and Ndainye who are in the entertianment class for the long haul, and keep dancing even after reaching Master. They do this because they like playing their entertainer, so just reaching Master is no reason to stop. Oh, and by the way, they also don't AFKM, but rather sit there and play the whole time, for the same reason: they like their character.
In the long run, then, your BF-laden butt will be saved, over the course of time, not by the AFKMer, who might be there for a week but then vanishes, but by the dedicated performer who likes what he or she is doing, and does it for the fun of it. Because 3 months from now, that AFKMer isn't still going to be there... but I bet Sinda and Ndainye will be, and so will I.
StormyIC wrote:Respectfully though, I'm not moving to the back of the bar. I feel like there is a need for a constant entertainer presence at cantina's and I know that my presence, espically if I'm grouped, helps get the customer in and out faster and back to their gaming.
Ah, there is the most revealing thing I think has been said yet. Let me re-emphasize what you just wrote: if I'm grouped, helps get the customer in and out faster and back to their gaming.
News flash: entertainment and the cantina scene are part of the game. The very idea that leaving the cantina means you are "getting back to the game" is why there is such a problem. "Entertainers are not a real class." "The cantina is an interruption in an otherwise cool gaming experience." etc. etc.
My character is a character. I roleplay her. She is not some mind-healing auto-bot. For me, and I suspect for most dedicated entertainers, who almost by definition must be roleplayers, enteraining is the best part of the game. Now, it doesn't have to be your cup of tea. BUT, if it's our favorite or only enjoyable part of the game and the AFKMers are ruining it for us, then I think you can see the problem. Can't you?
C
I've read multiple versions of this thread, and the top three arguments I seem to be able to pick out from them are always the same:
3. There aren't enough entertainers on at the right times, so my AFK entertainer is really doing the world a service.
2. Despite being AFK, I'm helping my fellow entertainers because by being in their group, I'm boosting their XP gain.
AND
1. I want to AFK-macro, and that's all there is to it, so quit trying to stop me.
I can't do a heck of a lot about the folks who base their decisions on argument #1, but let me talk about arguments #2 and #3 for a moment.
-I will give you credit and even agree with #3. Because the game is relatively new, and there seem to be a lot more combat-types than entertainers, I've walked into several cantinas at different times and found them completely empty of entertainers, with combat-types begging me to play. For this reason, and THIS REASON ONLY, I say AFK-macro all you want. Just don't do it in front of the door. Move to a side-room where I don't have to hear you or look at you. Even better, find a PA who's willing to pay you to AFK-macro in their hall all night. I guarantee you there are some out there who would pay good money for your services. Let me repeat - DO NOT AFK-MACRO IN FRONT OF THE CANTINA DOOR. See my rebuttal to argument #2 below for more reasoning.
-Argument #2 - that you are boosting my XP and therefore making my game more fun - is based on a false-perception of what fun is. First of all, if you're the only person in the cantina - or better yet, if there are 3-4 AFK-macroing entertainers in the cantina - you're not boosting my XP one bit, because none of you are there to invite me to join the group, nor are any of you there to accept my invitation. Bottom line, you've got a four-piece band playing and you've effectively blocked me from playing in that cantina until you're gone. Besides crowding me out of a cantina, you're also making it more difficult for me to react to others around you, because your avatars, your names, your titles, and that big clunky (AFK) are blocking my view of other folks. It's sort of like trying to enjoy the play or concert when you're the one who got stuck behind the concrete column. Finally - and pay attention to this one, you benevolent folks who think you're helping me - I DON'T WANT YOUR HELP. I'm playing this game with the goal of roleplaying a character. It's bad enough that I can learn a language in the click of a button, but there's no reason I should expect to be a Mikhail Baryshnikov or a Billy Joel in 8 hours of play-time and I recognize that fact. I happen to like the down-on-his-luck, sometimes-I-kick-butt-and-sometimes-I-land-on-it way my character goes through life, or I wouldn't still be playing for tips in the cantinas. You don't cut off a homeless guy's feet to save him from having to buy shoes, you don't kill a man's dog to save him from buying dog food, and you don't AFK-macro and get in the way of fun game-play to help me gain XP. Got it???
I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I had to get it off my chest. Thanks for reading...
Hedayo Takamine
Entertainer / aspiring Musician (and been "aspiring" for over a month now)
Tyrena/Coronet, Corellia
Starsider Galaxy
"Why do you care???? Is my question... Can you find something to NOT bitch about? Prob not.
Why can't you just mind your own biz and not worry about what others are doing around you? It doesn't affect your gameplay so why can't you just shut up about it? Because you thrive on drama and whining?
Master Musician"
It would'nt matter if people that played these games were honest and had integrity, but there are people like you who will do anything and everything to cheat and exploit the game mechanics. If SWG was a solo single player game noone would have a problem with you using cheat codes but it is'nt. WePAY a monthly fee in part for the devs to maintain a server and code base that stops people from cheating. It also effects all the novice dancers and entertainers who make less money and have to work 10 times harder for their exp.
I can't believe you are actually arguing to be able to play a game w/o having to play it. What is the point of playing a game where you don't actually play?
Eltestor wrote:
>I can't believe you are actually arguing to be able to play a game w/o having to play it. What is the point of playing a game where you don't actually play?
The point is to make progress. To be uber. As someone said in another post, "My bank account is bigger than your bank account and my skillz own urz."
These AFKMers are not interested in playing the game normally. They are either interested in ONLY playing a master and think everything beneath that is not worth their time for some reason, or they just like making progress in general, whatever the class, game, etc.
This is something people who like to really play a game and get a sense of accomplishment out of earning something, people like me and you, do not really understand. I mean, I can understand what they are doing, but I will never be able to grok how in the world it could be any fun.
C
Since more and more LAMErs are popping up in cantinas, it is driving me and the other real entertainers out. it is just so frustrating, I'll try and dance for an hour and will have all these robots next to me. No more gossiping like the old days. I will usually get up and leave and go destroy things or work on my tailoring.
>"As a DE, if you have resources you can easily get a 4th level (like master blueprints) in half an hour from training 3th level. ..."
There's a big difference. They trade credits for their increased leveling speed. To reach Master Droid engineer from novice droid engineer requires roughly 1.2 million units of resources. If they mined 100% of their own resources, it would cost them about 360,000 credits to master, if they bought all their resources, it would cost roughly 1.7 million credits to master. Mastering Dancer/Musician is free to Master, it just takes longer.
Wow! This post is sad! You people really love to whine, don't you? People bitching about other people "blocking their views" or "standing in their way"! Jesus Christ, shut up. Forum whiners bother me more than AFKMers bother anyone, but you don't stop, do you?