Entertainer Archive
Thread: Entertainer Protest Tuesdays Join the Jam for an Entertainer Revamp!
Shiznat9000
Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:15 pm
#27
Warryyr wrote:
You bring up some interesting points. Thought I'd respond.
Shiznat9000 wrote:
Every profession has problems, some more then others, but I don't think entertainers are one of those. As a Musician and Entertainer, I have to disagree. Our gameplay has been really stagnant for quite a long long time.
Yours and everyone else's. I've spent most of my time doing the holo grind and found that was the best way to keep me from getting bored. I didn't grind as fast as some people, I took my time to learn about each profession and what it was good for. But everytime I found a profession I liked and considered staying with it instead of continuing the grind, I would eventually get bored and drop it.
Right now you can do all the things that ents were originally planed to do without any major issues or bugs (except for the recent gating of ID xp). How many times has a musician buff or dancer buff just plain failed to work when everything seemed to have been done right? As a buffer, not a buffee, lemme tell ya - it happens quite a bit. Also, don't get me started about how Musicians can't tell in any way shape or form if we even buffed someone...that's a serious problem.
I wouldn't know about that, I never had an ent buff fail. But mind buffs weren't part of the original plan anyway, they were added later when it was clear that mind was such a limiting factor in combat. Not many professions have had such a powerful ability like mind buffing added later on.
Yours is mainly a RP profession so it shouldn't require as much attention as say the combat professions that are entirely dependent on their abilities and content. I see no reason why a combat profession's need for new contentis anymore important or different than an entertainer profession's need for new content.
Because us combat people have no imagination. If no new weapons were ever added and we had to run the same lair missions over and over everyday, with no story lines like the themeparks and dungeons have, then we would get bored even faster then the ents that sit in cantinas all day.
Ents are supposed to create their own social content. Social content is fine, and yes, we create our own social content all the time. Social content isn't the problem - it's the profession's content that is. Try playing for 6 months to the same 8 sounds looping through the same 10 songs and tell me how social you feel after that. Or, dancing to the same dances that've been around forever.
Is it anything like spaming the same special to kill everything no matter the circumstance?
SoI knowitsucks for you that they put off the Hutt casino and that other social dungeon while adding the corvette and DWB for the combat guys, but they didn't really have a choice, they have to add content based on the numbers.There is a gigantic social player base in this game. Combat players very often have entertainer professions as an extra profession. There is enormous potential for socialand casual gamers to play SWG in greater numbers, if the entertainer experience wasn't so stagnantand feature-less.
You don't have to be an ent to be a social player. There's just as many social opportunituies for merchant types/crafters and combat types as their are for ents. I don't think a poor ent experience will turn away many social/casual gamers, they can just switch to another profession if they don't like it.
More people would enjoy the corvette thena casino. I disagree. SWG is a Role Playing Game. People don't go into the Corellian Corvette to roleplay. They do, however, enjoy a fun and interesting place to act out their characters and socialize with others. Sterile and lifeless cantinas (lifeless from AFK'ers or buffbots) have destroyed the Cantina as a place of gathering and RP'ing. We weren't even issued any kind of apology for our only new real content added in a long time, it was just a "oh, this is getting bumped back too, by the way." Also, by the way, I've heard countless combat folks who don't enjoy the Corvette or Death Watch Bunker a bit, because it demands everyone be an incredible Uber fighter, and it's ridiculous spawns are just too much.
Yes the corvette and DWB were horrible for all but the power gamers because everyone else dies too fast. But that's just a problem with the way the combat numbers were choosen. If the corvette was designed correctly so that it was difficult but "doable" by the average player (maybe let you choose the difficulty level before you enter) then it would have been a very fun group activity with the opportunity for combat types to roleplay and socialize without having to focus on doing everything exactly right so you don't get your head blown off. My point is that anywhere that groups of players are drawn to by content is a chance for RP. You don't need a cantina or casino. I'm not even sure what you'd expect the casino to have, maybe some npc missions like a themepark? In the end it would be like another cantina, a place for ents to hang out and that doesn't solve your underlining complaints.
Well since there aren't that many ents left, go ahead and have your protest, its not too likely to bring any servers down. This is true.Our numbersare dwindling and our profession is dying. And we won't bring any servers down, howeverour intention is not to destroy anyone else's game - it's to finally improve OUR gameplay.
Just a joke, I didn't mean you were trying to grief anyone.
I just think you'll look kind of sillyspaming that you want a few skill mods in the FS trees. I've seen the trees on TC, except for the 2 extra experiment points crafters will get, the mods are pretty weak and a lot of people might not be willing to even spend the 1 skill point they take. We have more issues to address than the FS trees. That was just the last straw. Also, at least those people have the OPTION to try their weak new skills, unlike us who get nothing, as has been the case for far too long.
lupomaster
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:06 pm
#28
To all SWG fans out there (that means all who enjoy the game and have patience to let it grow)PROTEST ON!!!
I'ma WOOKIE and I was at the protests when they happened for us. Did we get loving....eeeeh sortof. We got armor that sux and makes people laugh at us and call us Samurai. Was it fruitless....no it was not. It helped the devs realize that we were a large group and a vociferous one. It helped us let it be known that we were unhappy with the state of things and it helped us get a new trickle of data to satiate our appetites for a few months.
As a former master dancer (damn the holocron) I can say that the profession is broken. I spent countless hours chatting away with fellow dancers and musicians and met some VERY great people. I think you all need fixing but I do have to agree with others who say that the whle game needs fixing.
Here I will voice my opinion as I have many times: ENJOY THE GAME FOR WHAT IT IS!!! I have been playing since the second week of Beta and I remember the "good ol days" when a hunt was a group thing when pauses between each fight saw the "busting out of a ranger camp" and the significantly welcome heals of the medics. Having a person bust out his or her horn or break down in a fit of robotic dancing was a great welcome thing.
I miss those days! Now we all run around screaming "looking for solo group" on Dath and plucking down $10k for buffs that make us UBER. My Master CH, TKM can handle any baddie out there. I throw on my mediocre wookie armor and get uber buffed, drink some brandy and I'm off soloing nests of baddies that use to require a group of at least 10 people in the "good ol days". SWG is becoming boring and I find myself longing for new content...
...well guess what?!? It's coming!!! But, like any good thing, it takes time! I'm no programmer or developer but I do have common sense. Development of such a HUGE and varied game takes time and manpower. I love new content and I agree with all the posters stating that the new dungeons are too hard. The professions are broken, and noone is getting attention from the devs, however, common sense also leads us to see that by looking at the revamp schedule, the devs are listening. There are so many voices out there that it has got to be impossible to hear them all at once and act on every little complaint.
Just be patient folks! Change is good, change is coming, priorities have to be ironed out. Go ahead and protest, I'll be there! Make yourselves be heard but please, please, pleeeeease understand that the dev community is under a ton of stress and I think I speak for many when I say that what they are working on now (Jedi revamp) takes more precedence over the SW universe than a few dancers and musicians. Yes you need to be heard, but am I wrong in saying that "i'd rather they fix one thing well first rather than a bunch of things wrong all at once?
moomoomike
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:31 pm
#29
Oh please i have a char thats an entertainer and could care less about this. Look at the smugglers..Or better yet , what about the Bounty Hunters? Please now get out of your own lil word and understand that people want to be jedi bounty hunter and smuggler just like we see in the movies....
im not attending this protest 
GrimesAAOO
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:41 pm
#30
In response to Lupomaster (i hope i spelled it right)
I heard the combat revamp will make us rely more on groups and that buffs are gonna get nerfed. If this is true, i will be very very pleased. This will make group hunting come back to main stream and solo grouping will be low (because everyone will be very weak and will have to depend on others to take down rancors and such again)... oh and no more soloing kimogilas and krayts i hope.
I heard the combat revamp will make us rely more on groups and that buffs are gonna get nerfed. If this is true, i will be very very pleased. This will make group hunting come back to main stream and solo grouping will be low (because everyone will be very weak and will have to depend on others to take down rancors and such again)... oh and no more soloing kimogilas and krayts i hope.
Tralmek
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:51 pm
#31
So what I'm getting from the detractors is this:
1. Change comes slowly, you'll get your turn
2. Smugglers got screwed too
3. Entertainer professions work fine, they're not broken
4. You just got attention, look at the ID's
My replies are this:
1. Ah, yes. I have been playing this game for a year now. I have paid SOE a couple hundred dollars for my subscription, and yet when I am still playing the same songs, the same instruments and dancing the same dances as I did a year ago. Virtually every other profession has had at least some attention paid to it. We were promised new content somesix months ago, and just recently were told that the content we were to receive has been postponed for what will most likely amount to another six months meaning it will come more than a year from when it was originally promised. Change may come slowly, but this is moving likea glacier! I know they can do more than they are doing right now, and they could do even more if they tried hiring a new team to work on their new game and kept their old team working on An Empire Divided. There was absolutely NO excuse to pull devs off of An Empire Divided to work on Jump to Lightspeed.
2. Yes, Smugglers also have troubles, but not only has content been promised to the Smugglers, there have been at least 2 Devs who stopped by the Smuggling forums to listen to ideas for improvement and to apologize, nay bootlick, about the delay in the Smuggler revamp. Not only this, butthere has been at least one Dev who is claimed to be the Smuggler Dev! In case you hadn't noticed, the Devs avoid the Entertainment forums like the plague...I believe the last post happened about 9 or 10 months ago.... Also, look at the crap answers we've been getting in the 16 Answers! Last time TH didn't get a question from our Correspondants, he told them they were not to submit the questions until the next time and then he went and picked his own question for our professions!
3. The Entertainer professions do NOT work fine. They work exactly the same, and in some ways worse than when the game first started. We have buggy buffs which often don't take and now our customers can't receive our buffs together. Dances are bugged visually on other people's computers, there are only 5 instrument sounds for 10 instruments, and there isn't even a new song coming our way although one is supposedly ready to go, but shelved. Our floor instruments, the Nalargon and Ommni Box must remain targeted, otherwise we will stop playing. This means we cannot target our customers to use emotes or buff or use /ventriloquism (not unless we're fast about it). As a final slap in the face, the Devs have made it easy for Buffbots and AFK macrotainers to flood the cantinas with NPCs that perform similar functions to us.
4. Yes, the Image Designers finally got some well-deserved attention, but you know what? They got a "fix" to their profession that has driven a bunch of good ID's away from it. Also, it is like Warryr said. A fix to the ID's does nothing to help Entertainers, Musicians, or Dancers. It's like a special move being added to Teras Kasi and saying that the Smugglers got attention. Yes, I'm happy ID got attention, now how about giving Entertainers, Musicians, and Dancers some?
Got class, gotta run. I'll come back and try to put out flames later. 
-Lilo
Akore
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:51 pm
#32
Iwish you all the luck but I don't think it's going to make a difference, the devs are just too busy. I love how everyone is so passionate about their profession. That's not sarcasim, I mean it. I loved smuggler --maybe more for the name then for any of the abilities it gave me.When I heard the smuggler revamp wasn't going to happenI dropped it to try something else. SWG is only about a year old and we pay the price for early adopting. Yes, I said early adopting. SWG was rushed out the door and JtL will also be rushed. Revisit this game two more years down the road and I have no doubt thatit will be the true Star Wars experience the ads say it is. In the meantime, we all just have to pay our monthly fee and fight all the bugs and broken professions or move onto something else... But good luck either way.
ChillWolf
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:03 pm
#33
Akore, don't say it won't make a difference.
I was a Wookiee from day 1 in SWG and we during our protest made a difference. We also ticked alot of people off but somebody heard us. One voice might not make a difference but 100 or 200 might get enough attention to at least get a response to your professions concerns.
I have never been an entertainer but I respect your profession and I support your protest.
Good luck to you all.
Oreet
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:04 pm
#34
i'll try and round up any medics i can to help support the cause by keeping you guys healed.
and if nothing else, it'll at least be a great party to attend with all the dancing and music.
but i do agree, we combat profs have been getting new content after new content, but the non-combat profs are just as important as the combat profs. if it weren't for entertainers (who i am always sure to tip) i'd have 3 or 4 thousand battle fatigue by now.
Nyre
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:11 pm
#35
Awww Poor Babies wanna protest. You get to sit in a cantina making credits for the buffing and healing without needing any resourses like any other profession needs. If you don't like the prof do something else stop putting pressure on the devs for something that isnt broken. Smugglers are the ones who need to protest they been promised an overhaul for months now but they keep surviving Layoff after Layoff. I have no sympathy for a group of people who are just too lazy to pick up soemthing else instead of pressuring for changes to a prof that is working like it was intended.
Tralmek
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:17 pm
#36
/pointup
Nyre, in the future, I believe you should try reading up on things before posting about them and giving people the impression you're totally ignorant.
-Lilo
/sweet_smile
Smuggling is working as intended much better than the Entertainment professions are. Is there a spice you can't craft as a Master Smuggler? Are you unable to slice things after you've gone up the slicing line? Maybe you don't understand the Lek'ku language after you've learned the underworld line? It seems to me that every system the Devs provided you with is functioning. Maybe you should try roleplaying so you can add your own Smuggling content to the profession. Or, as you suggested we do, perhaps you should just drop Smuggler altogether if you don't like how it is.
Message Edited by Tralmek on 06-14-2004 08:22 PM
sweatyclimber
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:27 pm
#37
Nyre wrote:
Awww Poor Babies wanna protest. You get to sit in a cantina making credits for the buffing and healing without needing any resourses like any other profession needs. If you don't like the prof do something else stop putting pressure on the devs for something that isnt broken. Smugglers are the ones who need to protest they been promised an overhaul for months now but they keep surviving Layoff after Layoff. I have no sympathy for a group of people who are just too lazy to pick up soemthing else instead of pressuring for changes to a prof that is working like it was intended.
you truely are an idiot aren't you...
maybe you should check the smuggler forum where greenmarine has posted about a zillion times on the subject
-------------------------------------
as for this protest, its not a good idea in my mind. A while back i did a cantina revival tour and that was a great thing and really helped to increase awareness. Yes I know a am very vocal on changes to our proffession but i do not see how this will help and honestly only see this as creating more negitivity about us. Instead I suggest you do something more along the lines of the cantina revival tour just maybe int he starport instead.
I have decided I am going to try a new aproach. It will be in other posts, but the jist is this. They revamp one proffession as fast as they can but don't do it right. They don't because they don't consider how in that revamp they could help other aspects of the game and other proffessions. I am now just providing entertainer slanted suggestions to the other revamps going on and will write both a vision doc for us as well as a development vision doc elsewhere on my ideas about this. To be honnest warr.. the ent threads sicken me in their current state. The only good thread we've had in a long long while was from you as the pro tempore dev... keep that one up cause its a great way to vent and still be positive.
sweatyclimber
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:34 pm
#38
btw to all the other idiots who say shut-up ents your fine and you should let us have a revamp instead:
1. I actually posted ideas in the smuggler forum cause i agree ....to you all this must be a shocking idea that i could support proffessions that are not my own in their need for a revamp but its because im not a self serving as$wipe thats the great thing about our proffession, most of us aren't
2. Go to your own forum and do something constructive like we are. If you don't like what were doing lets agree to dissagree ok? Great now get out. thanks
Tralmek
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:42 pm
#39
sweatyclimber wrote:
btw to all the other idiots who say shut-up ents your fine and you should let us have a revamp instead:
1. I actually posted ideas in the smuggler forum cause i agree ....to you all this must be a shocking idea that i could support proffessions that are not my own in their need for a revamp but its because im not a self serving as$wipe thats the great thing about our proffession, most of us aren't
2. Go to your own forum and do something constructive like we are. If you don't like what were doing lets agree to dissagree ok? Great now get out. thanks
That's closer to what I should have posted in response, but fools have a way of making me grumpy...