Entertainer Archive
Thread: From TH & SOETyrant Recursive Macros
Taduc
Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:10 pm
#27
I guess my point is your saying that YOUR way of playing your 15 bucks a month is the only correct way. When I am able to log in and play for like 1 hour, I dont want to spend 30 minutes trying to find a person to buff me. I work and have a wife and life outside of SWG so I can not spend huge amounts of time in game but I do like to be able to hop in and play. so I do not see why I should have to spend half my online time trying to hunt down or wait on buffers. maybe this wont be an issue if they nerf the heck out of all buffs so they are not required to leave town. all this is, is another way for online game companies to milk the casual gamer for more money because now I will have to have an account to buff myself up.
its very easy if your into rping or just have a ton of time to say "go meet people hang out" etc but I dont like playing a chat room with graphics I want to log in and go do stuff not hang out in the cantina for 40 minutes till someone can either meet me or do a buff. I have no problem with people who do want to hang in the cantina more power to them but I don't and I wonder how many people with families and jobs really do want to sit in that cantina for half their online time and then get to spend the other half looking for a doc to buff them the rest of the way only to have their kids start a fight or something and they have to log...
anytime one group starts to impose THEIR ways on another group its not cool...
Devil_Tiger
Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:56 pm
#28
That was not my point, I was just making a few suggestions.I wasn't trying to force you or anyone to to play a certain way.I wasn't implying that this is the correct way or the only way to play. I spent the first several months playing hunting just outside of town because I couldn't find anyone to buffs, and if I did I couldn't afford to pay for them. All I was suggesting was a way to get what you need when you need it, nothing more and nothing less. I work as well and have other commintents in RL that don't allow me to play as much as I would like too. Most of my time is spent playing on the weekends late night since that is when I have the most time for it.
All things aside, I was merely providing some help.I wasn't implying at anytime that this is something you (or anyone) have to do or else. I'm not sure where that was implied or stated, but that was not the intent. If my suggestions are not feasible or practical due to other considerations, then I'm sorry I couldn't be more help.
Devil_Tiger
Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:48 am
#29
I'm not flaming you or anything of the like, but here's a few things that have been posted elsewhere in several threads and bear repeating:
1) Make some friends with the entertainer community. Take some time one night from slaughtering killer force weilding durnis and look in the cantinas for live entertainers. Once you find some, make some conversation with them and find out about when they play. Then, add them to your friends list so you know when they are on.
2) Be curteous to them about getting buffs. Running into a cantina yelling "BUFF PLZ!" or any other varient similar to that is impolite. Demanding an entertainer to buff is also impolite. Instead, ask the entertainers if they are available to do buffs. On my non-entertainer toon, people ask me all the time if I am available to healing. If I'm not in the middle of butchering those rabid mutant ninja worrts, I will tell them sure and where would they like to meet up at.
3) Off peak hours entertainer. This is a tough one, but they do exsist. You may have to travel from starport to starport but finding those stealthy dancers and musicians isn't an episode of Mission: Impossible. On Valcyn over the weekends, I'm pretty much on during the evening and thru most of the night. I've gone to 4 or 5 in the morning providing entertainer services. On Radiant, I know a few entertainers that I can rely on for services during off peak hours.
4) Guild Entertainers. If you are in a guild and there are no entertainers, push that fact with your guild leader. Getting a couple of Dancers and Musicians would be invaluable to the guild. They can perform their magic right there in the guild hall for everyone, provided you can get enough to also cover some of the off-peak times.
I'm not saying that you have or have not tried these things cause I don't know if you have or not. A lot of this comes from observations, personal experiences and other posts in the forums. In the event there are no off peak hour entertainers or none are available for buffs, the old standby of foods, drinks, and spice vendors are a viablepossibility (still carry them myself even if there are entertainers I know that are online).
LyteFoot
Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:03 am
#30
Taduc you need to read a bit more. AFK dancers DO affect live entertainers and badly. They have made the cantinas a place people don't want to go to, they have made it difficult for live entertainers to get healing experience because the sea of zombies soak it all up, and they have made people think like you think that ours is a required service that you are owed. We get insulted, abused, ignored, and griefed because people think that either no one is really there to care or we are denying you your god given right to a buff.
AFK buffbots have done even worse by making people think of us as NPC buff despensers again causing people to treat the PEOPLE playing entertainer like THINGS. It is also something they think should be free thanks to buff-bots making it nearly impossible to make a living as an entertainer. I watch how people talk to docs, bow, complement them on the fast service or great buffs, and thank them when the buffs are complete. I also know how people interact with me when I am buffing sending unsolicited group invites, demanding instead of asking for buffs, telling me how my buffs work when I don't do it just like their favorite buff-bot, walking away without paying or even saying thank you, and making rude and lude comments and emotes to the female dancers.
So you are very, very wrong when you say it hurts no one. It may not hurt you but it does a lot of damage to live entertainers and the quality of our game time. It also hurts those non-ents who actually enjoy interacting with us because it has driven a majority of the live ents either out of the profession or into hiding and only interacting with their guild.
AFK buffbots have done even worse by making people think of us as NPC buff despensers again causing people to treat the PEOPLE playing entertainer like THINGS. It is also something they think should be free thanks to buff-bots making it nearly impossible to make a living as an entertainer. I watch how people talk to docs, bow, complement them on the fast service or great buffs, and thank them when the buffs are complete. I also know how people interact with me when I am buffing sending unsolicited group invites, demanding instead of asking for buffs, telling me how my buffs work when I don't do it just like their favorite buff-bot, walking away without paying or even saying thank you, and making rude and lude comments and emotes to the female dancers.
So you are very, very wrong when you say it hurts no one. It may not hurt you but it does a lot of damage to live entertainers and the quality of our game time. It also hurts those non-ents who actually enjoy interacting with us because it has driven a majority of the live ents either out of the profession or into hiding and only interacting with their guild.
Taduc
Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:01 am
#31
I will say it again its not the afk dancers that hurt you its your own attitude. as I said think about it why would people rather goto the afk buff bots then having to wait for a live performer ? why do we have drive through atms/fast food ? are you going to boycott burger king because it hurts sit down food joints revenue ? do you see the large Restaurants out there whining about them ? no they do something to bring customers TO them. if you want to be succesful you cant spend your time whining about the competition but maybe making YOUR service better.
I will never sit around in a cantina for a half an hourwaiting so I can play virtual chat room but then again unlike yourself I wont complain about people who do. I am working up my own dancer and I will just go that route. you think its the fault of afk dancers that people act like buffs are a Necessity etc, again I say look deeper its the devs who made it so you cant travel safely outside of town without them that has done that. if there was an alternative then only the people who enjoyed the interaction would visit the cantinas but there isnt so....
Steve jobs used to spend all his time whining about microsoft he never explained to anyone why they should buy apple instead he just whined that microsoft was evil, look how well that worked.....
LeBob
Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:33 pm
#32
The devs designed the buff system; Entertainers did not. The fact that buffs may be too difficult to getor too time-consuming to get or too necessary for combat is a design flaw. This is not a flaw in the playstyle of Entertainers. Entertainers do not want to enforce their playstyle on anyone.
The devs have clearly said that unattended gameplay is a problem and is going away. If anyone disagrees with this, his or her argument is with the devs... not Entertainers.
Taduc
Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:04 pm
#33
Yes they have been saying it is going away for what 6 months ? 9 ? and yes it is the entertainers doing the whining or are you not reading this board ? I do not see the devs complaining that people would rather goto a buff bot, I see entertainers complaining that it ruins THEIR gaming time. I will quit this arguement oviously people will believe their way is the only way no matter what and they can not just accept I pay my 15 bucks a month also and should be allowed to play anyway I choose that does not break the ROC or T&C and is not exploiting without listening to people whine.
Maisland
Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:45 am
#34
Taduc wrote:
Yes they have been saying it is going away for what 6 months ? 9 ? and yes it is the entertainers doing the whining or are you not reading this board ? I do not see the devs complaining that people would rather goto a buff bot, I see entertainers complaining that it ruins THEIR gaming time. I will quit this arguement oviously people will believe their way is the only way no matter what and they can not just accept I pay my 15 bucks a month also and should be allowed to play anyway I choose that does not break the ROC or T&C and is not exploiting without listening to people whine.
No, we are NOT the only ones with afk issues (see THIS thread). We are just the ones who are hurt the most by them.
As for your argument about paying $15 a month... we do too... is it really fair that your preferred playstyle should ruin ours? The way I see it, buff bots are the Entertainer equivalent of high level combat types who follow newbies around and kill everything the newbie targets... hey, THEY pay their $15 a month too, I guess they should be allowed to play however they want to as well. The $15 a month argument is the absolute lamest one I know of.
Message Edited by Maisland on 01-16-2005 06:22 AM
Taduc
Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:06 pm
#35
I wasnt going to reply but since your oviously to emotional to think about it I figured I would point out they already have that and its called Creature handlers "they should get rid of that profesion period I mean omg lamers get to have pets kill things omg omg I am gonna cry about it. "
Fact isthe people who goto the buff bots dont want to deal with the hassle and they WONT they will figure out other ways to get their buffs without dealing with people who say if you dont play their way its no way! so how does getting rid of the buff bot help you? it FORCES people to YOUR style of play ? wow its a good thing some countries like the great one I live in still cant force people to the whims of the whinest group or we would really be in trouble.
the ONLY way this hurts entertainers is it diverts "business" away from you but guess what so does youer petty whining because I will NEVER deal with a live entertainer due to the whining I hear from them here.
and lastly the 15 buck arguement being lame no its a fact! if you are an adult which I am indoubt due to your response then you have a car payment. now what if your finance company decided you could only drive that car to their gas stations ? could only use it on their streets ? hrmm ?? as long as your not breaking any laws you can do anything thing you want to that car currently but if you were in charge that wouldnt be the case eh ?
Maisland
Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:09 pm
#36
Taduc wrote:
I wasnt going to reply but since your oviously to emotional to think about it I figured I would point out they already have that and its called Creature handlers "they should get rid of that profesion period I mean omg lamers get to have pets kill things omg omg I am gonna cry about it. "
Fact isthe people who goto the buff bots dont want to deal with the hassle and they WONT they will figure out other ways to get their buffs without dealing with people who say if you dont play their way its no way! so how does getting rid of the buff bot help you? it FORCES people to YOUR style of play ? wow its a good thing some countries like the great one I live in still cant force people to the whims of the whinest group or we would really be in trouble.
the ONLY way this hurts entertainers is it diverts "business" away from you but guess what so does youer petty whining because I will NEVER deal with a live entertainer due to the whining I hear from them here.
and lastly the 15 buck arguement being lame no its a fact! if you are an adult which I am indoubt due to your response then you have a car payment. now what if your finance company decided you could only drive that car to their gas stations ? could only use it on their streets ? hrmm ?? as long as your not breaking any laws you can do anything thing you want to that car currently but if you were in charge that wouldnt be the case eh ?
Hmmm... *I'm* too emotional to think about this? What exactly do Creature Handlers have to do with anything I wrote? Did you even actually READ my post?
First, let me reprise it for you:
- You said (in effect) that we Entertainers are the only ones with afk issues. I gave you a link to a thread which proves that we are not. Did you even look at that thread? It does not appear that you did.
- I then made a comparison of buff bots with high level combat types who follow newbies around and kill everything that the newbies target. You appear to have ignored this also.
- I finished by giving my opinion that the $15 a month argument is the lamest of all the arguments in favor of bots. Finally, something in my post that you noticed.
Now, let us look at YOUR post:
- You start out by making a totally confusing comment about Creature Handlers that still has me confused.
- You then say that the people who go to bots "dont (sic)want to deal with the hassle and they WONT (sic) they will figure out other ways to get their buffs..." Yes, well, what do these people do when they want Doctor buffs? Is this playstyle that you defend so vehimently comprised exclusively of using bots and nothing else? Because THAT is the only thing with which we have an issue.
- As for your claim that the only way that bots hurt us is diverting "business" away from live entertainers... nope. Bots hurt us in a lot more ways than that. Bots (by their very existance) teach people that entertainers are nothing but NPCs, that there is not a Real Live Person behind that avatar... and that they can abuse us with impunity. They make the cantina atmosphere hostile. There are many ways that bots hurt Live Entertainers other than through "lose of business."
- Finally, let's look at your analogy, shall we? You let yourself in for this.....
First, there is the part regarding Gas Stations: what we are saying could more realisticly be compared to the following statement:
- If you get gas, pay for it. Do not just fill your tank and drive away without paying while leaving the hose lying on the ground.
Second, there is the part regarding where you are allowed to drive, which can more realistically be summed up in this statement:
- We have a lovely park that is open to the public. If you visit, please be sure to drive on the roads. Do not drive through the flower beds and don't do wheelies on the lawns.
If, as an adult, you refused to follow either of those rules, you would certainly find yourself in trouble in the real world.
Tiphaine
Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:49 pm
#37
Taduc wrote:
I wasnt going to reply but since your oviously to emotional to think about it I figured I would point out they already have that and its called Creature handlers "they should get rid of that profesion period I mean omg lamers get to have pets kill things omg omg I am gonna cry about it. "
- Since this has nothing to do with anything that has been said by anyone else, I'm going to ignore it. (Or are you simply saying that you hate creature handlers too?)
Fact isthe people who goto the buff bots dont want to deal with the hassle and they WONT they will figure out other ways to get their buffs without dealing with people who say if you dont play their way its no way! so how does getting rid of the buff bot help you? it FORCES people to YOUR style of play ? wow its a good thing some countries like the great one I live in still cant force people to the whims of the whinest group or we would really be in trouble.
- What "hassle" are you referring to?
- Is it being asked to be polite?
- Is it having to recognize that there is a person behind that toon? That entertainers are players also?
- Is it maybe having to place a few entertainers in your friends list so you can find one when you want one?
the ONLY way this hurts entertainers is it diverts "business" away from you but guess what so does youer petty whining because I will NEVER deal with a live entertainer due to the whining I hear from them here.
- Really? Is that why several entertainers have said that they would be happy to lose the ability to buff if it would get rid of bots and cantina zombies?
- PS I doubt any live entertainers would miss your custom due to the contempt towards them that you have shown here.
and lastly the 15 buck arguement being lame no its a fact! if you are an adult which I am indoubt due to your response then you have a car payment. now what if your finance company decided you could only drive that car to their gas stations ? could only use it on their streets ? hrmm ?? as long as your not breaking any laws you can do anything thing you want to that car currently but if you were in charge that wouldnt be the case eh ?
- Ok, here you made your biggest mistake. You see, if you know anything about owning/driving cars, you know that there are laws which -
- Require that you have your vehicle insured.
- Dictate areas where you are not allowed to drive or where you have to pay a fee to drive/park.
- Dictate the speed at which you drive.
- Require that your vehicle have license plates with current tags.
- Require that the driver of any vehicle have a current driver's license.
- Require that you stop at certain locations (stop signs & red lights) or under certain circumstances (school busses).
- Require that your vehicle meet certain safety regulations.
- etc etc
- Entertainers are merely asking that the "laws" of fair play be applied to them.Nothing more, nothing less. (/sarchasm on) Oh, horrors! Entertainers are asking to be treated with the same respect that doctors get. What a horrible thing to do to your way of playing! (/sarchasm off)
Nifty
Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:46 am
#38
Hmm, why do players go to buffbots instead of live entertainers? Because they don't feel bad about not tipping someone who's AFK. There isn't any "hey, that guy didn't tip!" and blacklisting of said non-tipper. Funny, as much money as there is in this game, it's a shame that players will pay 12-15k for a doc buff, but don't want to tip an entertainer at all for a mind buff. They see buffbots as a way to get a free service, and frankly that's all they want. They don't care that if/when buffbotting goes away they will still be able to buff their mind. They just care that they have to pay.
Then again, I'm generalizing. Just like someone is generalizing that all entertainers are whiners about recursive macroing and buff botting. I think buff botting is bad, very bad, and I think it should be remedied. However, it doesn't affect me personally. I don't need buff tips for money. I have the space expansion for that.I am a master musician because I like the profession. It's fun to play music in this game, and I'm still able to master a combat profession to go kill things. I didn't master music so I could buff people, in fact, I wanted to master music before mind buffs were even implemented.
Now, for some of these other entertainers, this is all they do. They don't have a combat profession. They don't fly in the space expansion. This is their in game livelihood. They need those buff tips. Buff bots hurt these people. As someone said, it is absolutely no different than a TKM running up and wiping out your mission lair in the time it takes you to take one MOB to 50% HAM. You've been robbed of your XP and there isn't a damned thing you can do about it. (except talk to the guy and find out he didn't know that named lairs are mission lairs. 
)
)Can't find an entertainer? Buy some good vasarian brandy. I have some nice 430 brandy that lasts 50 minutes. Two shots is 860 buff for 50 minutes, and the filling is just right that I am thirsty enough to take two more shots when the 50 mins runs out. It works just fine when I don't feel like going to get more entertainer buffs when they run out an hour before my doc buffs.
Wakeneu
Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:29 pm
#39
Taduc wrote:
I am actually in disagreement about some of this but thats just me. I figure when people start to realise they are no longer going to be able to get buffed etc when they want they will realise their mistake. because guess what there won't be that nice man in the cantina doing mind buffs 24/7 so if you want to configure your play time around when some guy feels like sitting there for 3 hours doing buffs thats all fine and dandy but some of us actually like KNOWING that we can run to the cantina and get a buff when WE can play. I understand that some folks play for different reasons but that doesnt make those of us that want to be able to hop on and hunt bad people it just means we have lives outside of the game and can not spend 2 hours trying to find a live dancer/musician to buff us up when we can only play for 2-3 hours.
If you need instantaneous mind buffing then go buy some good vasarian brandy for mind buffs then. You'll either have to tip the entertainer for the buff or buy the buff from a food vendor. Either way, when AFK buff bots are removed from the game, mind buffs will no longer be a freebie service. SInce when should mind buffs be free anyway??? Entertainers need to make money somehow. That's a good reason right there in explaining the rationalie of why Devs. are taking AFK macroing away from the game.