Entertainer Archive
Thread: Runesabre Speaks Out About AFK Macroing!
LeBob wrote:
Landlubber wrote:
Point taken. I just hope they don't fire the poor guy now
You're right, of course - I agree it's at least a bit of progress, but what can I say? I'm a cynic at heart, hehe...
umm I beleive he's pretty much the boss as far as SWG goes............ Lead Designer
Message Edited by LeBob on 05-12-2004 01:31 PM
That doesn't mean he can't lose his job. There is always someone above you at least in a public company. And if there isn't you can usually be voted out.
I'm not saying he will get fired though. This really isn't something new either. TH has said this or something close to this on many occasions. They didn't intend for people to macro their way through professions.
As I posted in the ID Forum thread, I agree that AFK macroing has damaged the Musician/Dancer professions. But I fail to see how that is related to giving us the ability to buff ourselves.
Has doctors being able to buff themselves ruined their profession?
I don't think his comments are encouraging at all. The admission of the AFK macroing problem (which the DEVS created) is OK, but if you read his whole post in context he's trying to justify why IDs can't migrate their own stats. It's not a stretch to see him making this same (flawed) argument for why entertainers can't buff ourselves.
Which is hooey. 
Groovymarlin wrote:
I don't think his comments are encouraging at all. The admission of the AFK macroing problem (which the DEVS created) is OK, but if you read his whole post in context he's trying to justify why IDs can't migrate their own stats. It's not a stretch to see him making this same (flawed) argument for why entertainers can't buff ourselves.
Which is hooey.
I noticed that too. I was reserving comment for another thread, as well as to put a bit more thought into it. But since we've gone there already...
I think that the question becomes what the threshold should be for utilizing one's own character skills in self-sufficiency. Yes, one could easily replace "Image Designer" and "Stat Migration" with "Musician/Dancer" and "Buffing". By this reasoning, docs should not be able to buff themselves, nor should weaponsmiths be able to equip weapons that they themselves had made. Architects should not be able to place and own structures that they themselves created... etc. I think I'd like to better understand the concept of that threshold of acceptible levels of self-sufficiency.
If, for example, migrating stats for ID's generates XP as well as potential revenue (I don't know if it will... I don't keep up with the ID board), then I see a possible threshold limit as it could be macroed into an AFK ID hell, just as our dance and music has been rendered, albeit more privately. An additional concern for ID's would be the creation of Stat Migration bots in much the same way that we have suffered with the buffbots, although admittedly, I foresee stat migration desired much, much less frequently than mind buffing. If XP gain for leveling is that determining factor, then self-buffing, along with my weaponsmith and architect examples above, fall outside of that control threshold.
On the other hand, if self-buffing is seen as too much self-sufficiency, I think that it should be evenly applied to docs as well. It isn't equitable to have different rules for two buffing effects not apply equally, one way or the other. If it is just a given that docs should be able to self-buff, I see no difference between their buffs and ours. So long as the same rules apply across professions for similar services, then it all works fairly well.
If stat migration, or buffing, is too self-sufficient, so be it. I can easily find other master dancers and musicians to take care of my needs, as I network extensively... just as my regular buffing customers networked to find me. Docs would have to network with other docs. If there is a clear shortage of service providers for any service on any given server, then I see that as a clear business opportunity for enterprising individuals to take advantage of - thus again, simulating a RL thriving society and economy. If the drive for interdependency in the game necessitates networking to locate available goods and services, so long as those requirements are equally applied, then it can work. If it does not work in actual practice, then perhaps the threshold of acceptible levels of self-sufficiency need to be reevaluated.
Just some things to think about, and consider in the bigger picture.
Groovymarlin wrote:
I don't think his comments are encouraging at all. The admission of the AFK macroing problem (which the DEVS created) is OK, but if you read his whole post in context he's trying to justify why IDs can't migrate their own stats. It's not a stretch to see him making this same (flawed) argument for why entertainers can't buff ourselves.
Which is hooey.
My concern exactly. If IDs can't stat migrate themselves, then it doesn't take much of a stretch to add that entertainers therefore can't buff themselves. This, however, runs completely contrary to the fact that doctors CAN buff themselves. Where, then, is the equity between the professions?
I don't want to see doctors get "punished" by nerfing their self-buffing abilities, I want to see entertainers be allowed to self-buff (and conversely, IDs would have to be allowed to stat-migrate themselves). However, if the devs are not going to give us the ability to buff ourselves, then I will protest to the highest levels of SOE until self-buffing is removed from the doctor profession, as well. Its only fair, equitable and right.
*Shrugs* If you guys weren't seeing the writing on the wall before you can read it now.
Entertainers are second class player characters.
I'm glad that "they" are acknowledging how macrotainers are hurting our profession. fix might not come soon, but it's a start
One thing to remember is Novice ID's can stat migrate their clients. For a dancer to buff a client they need the technique branch, upto 4 along with +25 in skill tapes just to buff 100% like a master dancer. Add to that the fact we require 2 branches from Entertainer and thats an additional 28 skill points along with an expensive collection of skill tapes in order to equal a master dancers buffing ability. For the additional skill point cost alone we ought to be able to buff ourselves.
It's not like everyone will spend 63 skill points plus "x" million credits just so they can buff themselves.
kirah_ashlin wrote:
Groovymarlin wrote:
I don't think his comments are encouraging at all. The admission of the AFK macroing problem (which the DEVS created) is OK, but if you read his whole post in context he's trying to justify why IDs can't migrate their own stats. It's not a stretch to see him making this same (flawed) argument for why entertainers can't buff ourselves.
Which is hooey.
My concern exactly. If IDs can't stat migrate themselves, then it doesn't take much of a stretch to add that entertainers therefore can't buff themselves. This, however, runs completely contrary to the fact that doctors CAN buff themselves. Where, then, is the equity between the professions?
I don't want to see doctors get "punished" by nerfing their self-buffing abilities, I want to see entertainers be allowed to self-buff (and conversely, IDs would have to be allowed to stat-migrate themselves). However, if the devs are not going to give us the ability to buff ourselves, then I will protest to the highest levels of SOE until self-buffing is removed from the doctor profession, as well. Its only fair, equitable and right.
Kirah, I must admit,I read the comment differently. The truth isit can be read in multiple ways. We simply don't know where Runsabre is heading. A couple of points.Thefact that our class has been harmed has been admitted. Interdependancy is in the forefront of the Dev mindset. These points are clear. Putting those two together is anybodys guess.
Val'rel made mention about the amount of skill points that would be needed to be invested into a given prof for the "selfbenefit" to be reaped. For ID this threshold is much lower than either doctor or dancer. So I still see our ability to self buff to be a viable option. I certainly agree that doctors should not be punished. We should be given that abilitynot take thiers away.
Message Edited by ArgentWulf on 05-12-2004 11:18 PM
Didn't intend perhaps, but nevertheless createdsuch a painfully tedious levelling process in many professions and insured that anything less than master was useless that they may as well *have* designed it thus. The new id grind will take about 60 hours of clicky-wait-rinse-repeat. It will take much longer, but how is this any better for those actively levelling the profession? I'm not entirely sure that two hours to master wasn't the lesser of these two "sins".
Numen wrote:
They didn't intend for people to macro their way through professions.