Entertainer Archive
Thread: On Denying Services
Cantinafly said:
What I don't understand, and what no one has bothered to explain yet, is why it is specifically entertainers who shouldn't be able to be paid for their services "yet unredered".
Then let me explain: The entertainer is the easiest class to play because it is one of the most important. Almost everyone needs BF healed. Entertainers can hit master without ever picking up a weapon, and can even do it while AFK.Entertainers have zero risk of death, and the phrase "No risk, no reward" has served Sony well all of these years. Your reward depends on people's being nice, and you won't get paid up front becuase the class is not designed that way. You can argue all you want, but they made this class for people who just want to sit around and chat and hang out, or as a supplmental skill for people who want to heal "on the road". As such, the class is pretty nerf when it comes to earning money.
Short answer to your question: Because they're too important, and too easy to play.
Crossbreed wrote:Cantinafly said:
What I don't understand, and what no one has bothered to explain yet, is why it is specifically entertainers who shouldn't be able to be paid for their services "yet unredered".
Then let me explain: The entertainer is the easiest class to play because it is one of the most important. Almost everyone needs BF healed. Entertainers can hit master without ever picking up a weapon, and can even do it while AFK. Entertainers have zero risk of death, and the phrase "No risk, no reward" has served Sony well all of these years. Your reward depends on people's being nice, and you won't get paid up front becuase the class is not designed that way. You can argue all you want, but they made this class for people who just want to sit around and chat and hang out, or as a supplmental skill for people who want to heal "on the road". As such, the class is pretty nerf when it comes to earning money.
Short answer to your question: Because they're too important, and too easy to play.
I already answered this in another thread, but suffice it to say that Artisans are, by your own criteria, easier to play and much more important (no artisans, to items, after all). Yet they can rake in thousands of credits a day. Do you even play an entertainer? Do you even play the game? Try confining yourself to commenting on things you actually know something about. Your ignorace is showing.
Waho wrote:
Denial of service is impractical and unrealistic. If you want to play music you need to realize that anyone in the vacinity can hear you. If you are so greedy and don't understand that musicians don't make a lot of money, then please switch professions. The greediness exhibited by so many Entertainers is giving us all a bad name.
Right. So it's greedy for a musician to want to make money, but not for a medic? If musicians worked exactly as they do in real life, you would be right. Music is just music, after all. But musicians and dancers in SWG are "healers"; trust me, battle fatigue SUCKS. You, as a musician, provide a healing service, and do have the right to ask for payment. I see no reason why denial of service is impractical or unrealistic. I only see people like you who are mistaking real-life musicianship with the fantasy version seen in SWG.
Here's the thing, there's no good reason to not give entertainers the option to /denyservice in order to handle abusive players. Those people who try to use it as a method for extorting tips will soon find themselves without clientele of any sort. Why?
Zefo wrote:
Force tips and you cut your own throat. I will never force tips, and I am sure I get my share of freeloaders.
Because there will almost always be entertainers with the attitude of Zefo hanging around and playing in the Cantinas. Fifty percent, after all, means that for every entertainer who wants to /denyservice there is another who never wants to use the function.
That being said, it doesn't harm the people who don't want to use it, since they can simply go on living life and playing the way they want. In fact, in the long run it probably helps them, as the people who are using the deny services in order to extort money out of patrons will rapidly find themselves out of a market, as the customers will quickly learn to remember who they are and not even bother left clicking on them to start listening.
This, then, leaves the function primarily for it's best purpose. To moderate those players who feel that they can simply run around being jackholes in the game with zero consequences. If you don't think those people exist, then you're just fooling yourself. Without any controls on them, they'll simply do more and more idiotic things (not limited to Cantinas) simply because they can.
Celedhros wrote:
<SNIP>
playing in the Cantinas. Fifty percent, after all, means that for every entertainer who wants to /denyservice there is another who never wants to use the function.
That being said, it doesn't harm the people who don't want to use it, since they can simply go on living life and playing the way they want. In fact, in the long run it probably helps them, as the people who are using the deny services in order to extort money out of patrons will rapidly find themselves out of a market, as the customers will quickly learn to remember who they are and not even bother left clicking on them to start listening.
This, then, leaves the function primarily for it's best purpose. To moderate those players who feel that they can simply run around being jackholes in the game with zero consequences. If you don't think those people exist, then you're just fooling yourself. Without any controls on them, they'll simply do more and more idiotic things (not limited to Cantinas) simply because they can.
Outstanding and well thought out. I will continue to heal, regardless of people extorting money from customers. A waitress who tells a customer that they have to tip up front or they dont get food will always get the minimum tip.
A waitress doesn't have to get minimum wage in many places. The minimum when I was in the business was $2.01, and they had to report the reast to make minimum, no watress I knew got less than $10/hr. Many forbreakfast and lunch got much more. I have known of girls getting $100 through a rush (2-3hrs). This was a few years ago and min wage was about $4.00.
The lived and got most of thier pay from, guess what, tips. I know about tips and how to earn them.
This isn't about arguemnts for you. I think there are a lot of people who agree with me, want this, and will thwart any attempt to get a pay for play system.
Get a house, charge admission, and then you can get pay for play. Good luck to you.
CantinaFly said:
"What I don't understand, and what no one has bothered to explain yet, is why it is specifically entertainers who shouldn't be able to be paid for their services "yet unredered"."
I don't know man, I'm just an entertainer so that's all I can give input on. The other facets of the game do not apply to me.
CantinaFly wrote:
I already answered this in another thread, but suffice it to say that Artisans are, by your own criteria, easier to play and much more important (no artisans, to items, after all). Yet they can rake in thousands of credits a day. Do you even play an entertainer? Do you even play the game? Try confining yourself to commenting on things you actually know something about. Your ignorace is showing.
So is yours. Ignorance has 2 N's in it. If you're going to attack someone, at least learn how to spell the word you're accusing someone of being.
It's not my fault that you're fixated on your own point. You've repeatedly accused people on this thread of being self-centered. I believe that you are simply reflecting yourself onto them
*deep breath*
Giving entertainers the ability to deny service to customers grants them too much power, and enables them to be one-dimensional characters, which is not desirable. Rounded characters seems to be what Sony is after, and I agree with them. Furthermore, the belief that Sony owes the entertainer an income beyond what littlethey can get from tips is, in my opinion, erroneous. It even says in the instruction booklet that entertainers live from tips, and not very well. If you are not comfortable with that you should get a second job or surrender the skill. Instead you are trying to chnage the class into something it is not; uber.
I would argue that Artisans are a more difficult class to play, because sitting in the city will return the same average reward as dancing.In order to make more money characters have to leave the city, putting them at risk (there's that word again!) from local fauna.
Furthermore, the Artisan profession is rewarded more because they are more involved in the economy and game then the entertainer. The entertainer is rewarded in different ways, like by being in the place where players sit around when and kill time. This gives them access to a lot of information, and lends itself to grouping and creating friendships.
Does this make any sense to you, or should I start using misspelled mono-syllabic words? Would you like to discuss this, or would you rather just repeat your drivel and insults?
Zefo wrote:A waitress doesn't have to get minimum wage in many places. The minimum when I was in the business was $2.01, and they had to report the reast to make minimum, no watress I knew got less than $10/hr. Many for breakfast and lunch got much more. I have known of girls getting $100 through a rush (2-3hrs). This was a few years ago and min wage was about $4.00.
The lived and got most of thier pay from, guess what, tips. I know about tips and how to earn them.
This isn't about arguemnts for you. I think there are a lot of people who agree with me, want this, and will thwart any attempt to get a pay for play system.
Get a house, charge admission, and then you can get pay for play. Good luck to you.
That doesn't seem like much of an argument. Again, unlike you, I'm not just thinking about my own situation. I'm trying to look at it objectively, from the point of view of an entertainer who isn't lucky enough to be on at the times when good tippers are around. Telling someone who makes 500cr in tips a night to "buy a house and charge admission" is completely useless. First of all they can't afford the house, and secondly nobody is going to walk to the middle of nowhere to pay to see entertainers. So-called "player-owned cantinas" are doomed to fail, as the only people who will go are your own personal friends, who would probably drop a few credits on you anyway. Your "solution" has no ground to stand on, and is basically just a waste of money. My solution offers an additional option, and does no harm to anyone else.
Crossbreed wrote:
...Entertainers can hit master without ever picking up a weapon, and can even do it while AFK...
Just wanted to point out that you can NOT continue to gain xp by being AFK. I am currently working on Dance IV and the other night I had to step away from the computer for domestic reasons and thought to myself, "I'll just keep dancing and hopefully get a few extra xp." I got back to realize that after the xp continued to drop due to lack or flourishes, that the xp stopped all together. Since then I have experimented with it and I don't know at what level it happens, but you will not get xp by just standing there dancing or even afk. The time between flourishes will cause xp to drop, and the longer you go between flourishes, the less xp you will receive.
To add my two cents to the topic of the thread. I don't care one way or another. I wish there were a better way to report abusive/offensive people than there is, but I don't know if a deny service would be the way to go. Last night, a fellow stood in front of one of our dancers and continually asked her to marry him, etc. FOR TWO HOURS!It is one thing to put someone on ignore, but she couldn't leave - he stayed right in front of her until HE chose to leave. There needs to be a better way to deal with a situation like that and would a deny service really do it? After two hours, he wasn't there for healing so it wouldn't matter if she chose to deny him that service. *shrugs*