Entertainer Archive
Thread: On Denying Services
on Kettemoor:
The only possible solution is to be able to, much like a medic, have the final word on who gains the benefit of your healing.
I've never played an entertainer character, but I do play a combat character. I can't really speak from an entertainer's perspective, but from my perspective what Cantinafly is saying makes a lot of sense. Most professions have a way to earn money while they gain exp (destroy missions are a good example.) For a pure entertainer I suppose it would be down to just tips..
I can't see how a denial of service optioncould be a bad thing.. if a novice entertainer needed the exp and didn't mind dancing/playing for free then theywould still be free to do that. On the other hand if the person doesn't need the exp then they are free to ask for a tip. It would really be self-regulating I think, I mean what's the worst that can happen? What kind of a slippery slope would we be dealing with?
I have no problem earning money as a dancer. While I am a Twi'lek female (and a fairly nice looking one a that) I don't have to act the ho to make my money and I'll say that without factoring in the tips someone may get for "other services", I probably make more money than that type of performer. I play on Tarq and with the exception of maybe one night a week that I power dance for experience I perform in a small cantina with a regular clientel that I have spent several weeks getting to know. They appreciate my friendlyness an my healing ability and tip accordingly. When there is a problem with rowdyness the normal clientle steps forward to protect myself and the other performers and to play bouncer.
For me it's a trade off money vs exp. When I was a novice and only danced for exp I did missions to support my training and wardrobe. Now that I am more advanced I've found a location that I can dance for fun and support my training and wardrobe.
Aryel "so close to master dance she can taste it" Wyndsong
Entertainers have a big problem when it comes to griefers, because we simply don't have that many places where we can perform and get a good audience. Coronet City has a hotel, a cantina, and a theatre. But *all* the performing happens in the cantina, and everybody knows to come there. The people who need healing. Entertainers from out of town. Griefers.
If I'm out in the wilderness and somebody starts doing something to grief me, I can leave. But if I want to stay in the community that I've grown to love, I *have* to stay in my cantina. It's pretty much the whole point.
We have a person now who's working on making the money needed to build a cantina outside of town and get everything set up nicely. I'm skeptical, but we'll see how it works. I'm afraid that while the more experienced entertainers might draw a bit of a crowd at such a location, it will never be as vital as a city cantina, and will never have the kind of audience that a beginner should have to learn their art.
So anyway, for me it's not about money. It's about having *some* way to "punish" the folks who like to make life hell for other folks. I prefer in-game mechanisms for this to calling on support for every little thing. Quite often, you talk with someone reasonably and they'll see the error of their ways. One person who...said some things to me that were quite quite quite uncalled for discovered that he was unable to get a group in town afterwards until we'd settled it. But big stompy critters are more hurtful than mere words. And the kind of person who thinks that chasing 20 people out of a cantina by giving them migraines is funny isn't going to listen to much reason at all.
No feature for Deny services, I am flipping on it and it is because of Cantina Fly.
I want a better way to deal with harassers. The /report is useless in a cantina. A strike is poitless because they stay and nobody gets healed. I don't want the dancers to get bugged by one or two horny little kids.
I do notlike an idiot to deny services to a guy for not tipping or not tipping enough. I get 10cr tips, and I get 1k tips. I get gifts, and I get free resources. I get trained for free, and I train for free. It works out in the end. I get what I need, and I don't have to enforce payment in a public cantina. My customers want to tip.
I think wanting to force someone to tip is not the way to go, where we live on goodwill. If people are given an admission fee, like 100cr, they will pay it and nothing more. If the fee is too high, they will find someone in their own group and have them learn Novice Entertainer.
Force tips and you cut your own throat. I will never force tips, and I am sure I get my share of freeloaders.
hope everyone just posts here to keep it simple.
I said no cause deny services with the hope of getting better tips = already in game = covercharge private cantina with excellent band
and deny services for abuse = already partially in game = ignore, ban list, black list by players, etc. to whatever extent needed.
True, we can't stop griefers and abusive people from healing up (short of a total strike) in a public cantina but I don't see that as a problem. As a musician, I know many of the local doctors. Doctors can choose who they heal. Go ahead, heal up your BF and mind wounds is what i say to the griefers out there. But if you're griefing me you better hope I don't know all the doctors in town or it'll cost you shuttle fare to get health and action healed.
CantinaFly wrote:
I only see people like you who are mistaking real-life musicianship with the fantasy version seen in SWG.
This very well could be the case, because basically....that is what I was doing. But there is a social aspect in SWG, and there is not an in game method which suggests that playing music is a chargeable service. The /tip function is not that. The only in game method that would require payment up front is the fee for entering a player made cantina. This is a viable option in game, so I don't see why further means are necessary to provide entertainers with an additional method to earn cash for services yet unrendered.
And about the social aspect of SWG....what would this option really mean for the community? I'm not going to be so pretentious as to guess, but I'm scared of the consequences, to say the least. I'm concerned with functionalty of a /deny (or whatever) while in a band, and as shallow as it may sound, I'm concerned with the "reputation" of the entertainer profession.
BUT, I do wish we could /denyservice to people who harras and scam others. It's not easy when you are trying to drive someone out of town by not healing because there are other players who do need healing. And I hate making them wait.
Thank goodness it doesn't happen too often, I think last night was the first time we had to strike in my usual Cantina. It ticked off some of the other customers, but our regulars got into it and would challenge him to duels outside. Once outside we could quickly heal those inside until he came back.
I guess some people just get a kick out of annoying others.
CantinaFly wrote:
Rather than further clutter a thread that is supposed to be a poll, or dredge up an old topic, I thought it better to start a new thread. Put simply, there is no good reason not to do this. It would be an option, not a rule, and those of you who feel that it is somehow "unethical" to expect to be paid in return for using your skills to benefit someone else can continue to provide charity services. The only people I can possibly see having a problem with this are combat characters who are either too cheap to pay for healing or who feel that tipping lowly entertainers is beneath them. Frankly, I see no reason to bow to the whims of either. Thoughts?
/deny service is purely a punitive "attack" on someone that you do not like, and adds nothing of value to the class. In fact, the way the game is set up, it only takes away from the class. I do not believe that this option should be added now, as doing so would take away from issues which are more pressing. I do not believe that this option should ever be added, because it detracts from the class and gives lends itself to petty and childish behavior.
Sony has given us /ignore to distance us from those we do not like, they should not give us /deny to punish them as well.
Waho wrote:
CantinaFly wrote:I only see people like you who are mistaking real-life musicianship with the fantasy version seen in SWG.
This very well could be the case, because basically....that is what I was doing. But there is a social aspect in SWG, and there is not an in game method which suggests that playing music is a chargeable service. The /tip function is not that. The only in game method that would require payment up front is the fee for entering a player made cantina. This is a viable option in game, so I don't see why further means are necessary to provide entertainers with an additional method to earn cash for services yet unrendered.And about the social aspect of SWG....what would this option really mean for the community? I'm not going to be so pretentious as to guess, but I'm scared of the consequences, to say the least. I'm concerned with functionalty of a /deny (or whatever) while in a band, and as shallow as it may sound, I'm concerned with the "reputation" of the entertainer profession.
What I don't understand, and what no one has bothered to explain yet, is why it is specifically entertainers who shouldn't be able to be paid for their services "yet unredered". If you go to a medic and they ask for money, you pay them before they heal you, or you don't get healed. As an entertainer, there is literally no reason whatsoever to ever give you a dime. Yes, in the long run it makes sense to tip entertainers, but I've met very few people in-game who care about the long-run.
Secondly, I would like to ask those of you who say "well I'm doing just fine without denial of service, so it isn't needed" to get over yourselves. The game isn't just about you. I was doing quite well myself for some time, and depending on what time I'm signed in and what cantina I'm at, I still do. But that's not the point. Try thinking of others for a change. Think of the person who doesn't have 6 hours a day to play; for that person, having to raise 10k for a new outfit could mean several play sessions of doing nothing but delivery missions. How will this person gain new levels in entertainment? At a snail's pace, and without having much fun. Delivery missions aren't fun. Why should we force people to do them just to become a "better" entertainer? Every other class has a built-in way of making money while they gain xp. For entertainers, in theory, you could go your entire career without ever making a cent. While this is fine for real life, people don't have to pay $15 a month to live in real life. Certain adjustments should be made so that people can have fun in the game. Denial of service would help some people, and wouldn't harm anyone. Greedy entertainers (Heaven forbid someone should want money in-game...try seeing if you can get that tailor to give you a new outfit from the kindness of their heart...), if they exist, will soon go out of business because people like you will undercut them in price. It's called "economics". Look into it.