Entertainer Archive

Thread: BuffBots, are they really the problem?

Krupskaya
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:06 am
#209




AnakinSWG wrote:

Pot. Kettle. Black.


You walk into a forum and claim that our opinions are based on lies. And you're different how?I pointed out that a player who accused me of using BuffBots to become uber was "lying", insofar as I've NEVER used a BuffBot on ANY occasion. Simple enough for you, Til?Our allegations are far from unsubstatiated. The issues have been discussed for many months. Complaints have been lodged by members of our community wholly unaffected by our forums. Dancers and Musicians ingame have expressed their rage about buffbots taking up shop in their homes, yet they have no idea that these forums exist. Even NON-ENTERTAINERS often express their sorrow for our situation and wish us well in our fight. Somehow, this seems to be more of an excuse than anything else, Krupskaya. You and others want your buffbots to be available."Your" BuffBots. Then I guess you've added yourself to the ranks of slanderous liars, Til. And I can't particularly blame you for it, given that you've anunciated no argument beyond, essentially, "I love Entertainers, whereas you hate them". I don't care if you prefer live entertainment. You still want them to be there for you 23/7. You are NO different from others, regardless of the amount you tip a live entertainer. Tell me why I should believe otherwise. In other words, you will assume that I use ATK BuffBots because I disagree with you on a matter of game mechanics. And you will embrace any lie, and any slander because, rather than arguing, you would like to make false presumptions about my character and then stand, heroic, as you flagellate me for imagined wrongs.


I'd expected better, Til. But maybe I should have known better, too.







IGN Memos
AnakinSWG
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:08 am
#210
You're quite the pompous one, aren't you.


Once again, you're attacking me personally. As I said, you're no different. Take a walk from EOC, Krupskaya. I don't care to have you in there any longer.



~Til Kismeta~
I'm a dishonest man, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest.
It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, honestly. Because you can't tell when they're going to do something incredibly...stupid.



Drygo
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:09 am
#211




Krupskaya wrote:





You accused me of using BuffBots to become as "uber" as possible, despite the fact that I have never, ever used a BuffBot.


Then, when I pointed this uncomfortable reality out, you beat a hasty retreat from the thread while accusing me of displaying "arrogance" and being "insulting".


So you slander me, then beat a quick retreat in ignonimous sanctimony.


And, of course, you point out that you can "debate with the best of them". If this constitutes making thoughtless assumptions regarding a character you know nothing about, and then hysterically withdrawing when called on your lies, then, yes, you most certainly can.


Run along, troll.





In any effective debate there has to be a starting point. You have to both agree on at least one premise. It's like most religious arguments. Take homosexuality for example. Bible thumpers are often anti-gay because of God. Well, there are a whole lot of people who don't believe in God in the first place so any argument that an evangelical Christian makes is going to seem completely and wholly irrelevant to the person who does not believe in God. There's no possible way to have an argument or a debate.


Similarly, I find your use of the real world economic modelto becompletely and wholly irrelevant to the ingame model in regards to your view of competition. Perhaps if you can explain to me why I should use the real world model as an example then we can debate. If not all I can do is say, "nope, you're wrong," and you can do is say "nope, you're wrong." And, we're stuck because we cannot find a basic premise from which to debate because I wholly reject yours, just like somebody who doesn't believe in God wholly rejects any argument based on God's existence.


In other words, convince me that your initial assumption is correct, then I will debate you.

Message Edited by Drygo on 08-01-2004 12:12 PM



- I support hawtpants
AnakinSWG
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:10 am
#212
Wrong, I retreated to my argument and take offense to the assumptions you make of my character.



~Til Kismeta~
I'm a dishonest man, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest.
It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, honestly. Because you can't tell when they're going to do something incredibly...stupid.



Krupskaya
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:10 am
#213




AnakinSWG wrote:

You're quite the pompous one, aren't you.


Once again, you're attacking me personally. As I said, you're no different. Take a walk from EOC, Krupskaya. I don't care to have you in there any longer.




It's very simple, Til.


A poster claimed I use BuffBots. I do not. Therefore, I claimed that he was lying. Consequently, you attacked my integrity for broaching the fact he lied about me.


And now you claim that I've attacked you personally -- for disagreeing with your assumption that I was a liar! Having fun with the hypocrisy, Til?



IGN Memos
Krupskaya
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:13 am
#214




AnakinSWG wrote:

Wrong, I retreated to my argument and take offense to the assumptions you make of my character.




Assumptions?


This was your statement, Til:


"You and others want your buffbots to be available"


MY BuffBots?


I've never used a BuffBot, Til, yet you happily claim otherwise. I did not make "assumptions" about "your character". I merely pointed out a very real fact -- you have LIED about me. And now, apparently, you think I should be ashamed of my indecency in defending my character against this LIE.



IGN Memos
AnakinSWG
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:17 am
#215




Krupskaya wrote:




AnakinSWG wrote:

Pot. Kettle. Black.


You walk into a forum and claim that our opinions are based on lies. And you're different how?I pointed out that a player who accused me of using BuffBots to become uber was "lying", insofar as I've NEVER used a BuffBot on ANY occasion. Simple enough for you, Til?Our allegations are far from unsubstatiated. The issues have been discussed for many months. Complaints have been lodged by members of our community wholly unaffected by our forums. Dancers and Musicians ingame have expressed their rage about buffbots taking up shop in their homes, yet they have no idea that these forums exist. Even NON-ENTERTAINERS often express their sorrow for our situation and wish us well in our fight. Somehow, this seems to be more of an excuse than anything else, Krupskaya. You and others want your buffbots to be available."Your" BuffBots. Then I guess you've added yourself to the ranks of slanderous liars, Til. And I can't particularly blame you for it, given that you've anunciated no argument beyond, essentially, "I love Entertainers, whereas you hate them". I don't care if you prefer live entertainment. You still want them to be there for you 23/7. You are NO different from others, regardless of the amount you tip a live entertainer. Tell me why I should believe otherwise. In other words, you will assume that I use ATK BuffBots because I disagree with you on a matter of game mechanics. And you will embrace any lie, and any slander because, rather than arguing, you would like to make false presumptions about my character and then stand, heroic, as you flagellate me for imagined wrongs.


I'd expected better, Til. But maybe I should have known better, too.










Yeah...nothing insulting there...


Istated that your arguments are disagreeableNOT because I believe you've used buffbots, but because you YOURSELF have stooped to the point of making sweeping accusations against the entertainer community and proclaim to know what is best for the economic sectors of SWG, and proceeded to use a ridiculously arrogant manner of approach to your argument. You have no place calling other arguments unfounded when you have failed to provide ANY evidence that yours are to the contrary.



~Til Kismeta~
I'm a dishonest man, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest.
It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, honestly. Because you can't tell when they're going to do something incredibly...stupid.



Krupskaya
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:19 am
#216




Drygo wrote:



In any effective debate there has to be a starting point. You have to both agree on at least one premise. It's like most religious arguments. Take homosexuality for example. Bible thumpers are often anti-gay because of God. Well, there are a whole lot of people who don't believe in God in the first place so any argument that an evangelical Christian makes is going to seem completely and wholly irrelevant to the person who does not believe in God. There's no possible way to have an argument or a debate.


Similarly, I find your use of the real world economic modelto becompletely and wholly irrelevant to the ingame model in regards to your view of competition. Perhaps if you can explain to me why I should use the real world model as an example then we can debate. If not all I can do is say, "nope, you're wrong," and you can do is say "nope, you're wrong." And, we're stuck because we cannot find a basic premise from which to debate because I wholly reject yours, just like somebody who doesn't believe in God wholly rejects any argument based on God's existence.


In other words, convince me that your initial assumption is correct, then I will debate you.



Then distill the issue into a matter of argumentative common ground. The fact is that you openly, plainly, blatantly lied by claiming I used BuffBots. You had no evidence on which to premise such a preposterous claim -- moreover, I have always preferred to use ATK Entertainers and admitted as much on any number of threads. Nonetheless, you lied and then fled from the thread in a sanctimonious fury that I had dared catch you in a thoughtless slander on my character.


Until you apologize for this unjustified assumption, then you remain an unrepentant liar. Moreover, you now insist that I prove that SWG was desired to be a free-market economy rather than the command-and-control economy you apparently favor, despite the fact that the Developers have constantly insisted they wanted things to be player-controlled. Is it just coincidental, then, that a T-21 can only be purchased from another player (whether through trade window or, yes, a vendor that still operates while the proprietor is AFK?) Consumers were designed to have choice in SWG. And the mere fact that you have so little respect for their ability to make a rational choice does not signify the Developers intended otherwise.



IGN Memos
AnakinSWG
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:19 am
#217




Krupskaya wrote:




AnakinSWG wrote:

Wrong, I retreated to my argument and take offense to the assumptions you make of my character.




Assumptions?


This was your statement, Til:


"You and others want your buffbots to be available"


MY BuffBots?


I've never used a BuffBot, Til, yet you happily claim otherwise. I did not make "assumptions" about "your character". I merely pointed out a very real fact -- you have LIED about me. And now, apparently, you think I should be ashamed of my indecency in defending my character against this LIE.





Once again, you take a word and run with it. Not an effective approach, Krupskaya. It only angers the others. I chose the word "your" because "you" are in support of them. They are now your pet project. I don't care if you've used them before. That is not in my line of sight. My signature at one time addressed the pointlessness of attacking personal character in an argument. Greater minds discuss the concept. You should be able to see that.



~Til Kismeta~
I'm a dishonest man, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest.
It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, honestly. Because you can't tell when they're going to do something incredibly...stupid.



AnakinSWG
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:22 am
#218




Krupskaya wrote:


Until you apologize for this unjustified assumption, then you remain an unrepentant liar.




Anotherarrogant attack on personal character? You're better than this. What's the line of reasoning behind the defensive "you're nothing but a liar" approach? I can only guess, but that would involve psycho-analysis, something which I have no certification of any sort for.


Why do you feel so defensive, Krupskaya?


The attacks on your personal character have been extremely tame. You're reading quite a bit into what others are saying.


Could there possibly be a reason for this?



~Til Kismeta~
I'm a dishonest man, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest.
It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, honestly. Because you can't tell when they're going to do something incredibly...stupid.



Krupskaya
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:22 am
#219




AnakinSWG wrote:




Krupskaya wrote:




AnakinSWG wrote:

Pot. Kettle. Black.


You walk into a forum and claim that our opinions are based on lies. And you're different how?I pointed out that a player who accused me of using BuffBots to become uber was "lying", insofar as I've NEVER used a BuffBot on ANY occasion. Simple enough for you, Til?Our allegations are far from unsubstatiated. The issues have been discussed for many months. Complaints have been lodged by members of our community wholly unaffected by our forums. Dancers and Musicians ingame have expressed their rage about buffbots taking up shop in their homes, yet they have no idea that these forums exist. Even NON-ENTERTAINERS often express their sorrow for our situation and wish us well in our fight. Somehow, this seems to be more of an excuse than anything else, Krupskaya. You and others want your buffbots to be available."Your" BuffBots. Then I guess you've added yourself to the ranks of slanderous liars, Til. And I can't particularly blame you for it, given that you've anunciated no argument beyond, essentially, "I love Entertainers, whereas you hate them". I don't care if you prefer live entertainment. You still want them to be there for you 23/7. You are NO different from others, regardless of the amount you tip a live entertainer. Tell me why I should believe otherwise. In other words, you will assume that I use ATK BuffBots because I disagree with you on a matter of game mechanics. And you will embrace any lie, and any slander because, rather than arguing, you would like to make false presumptions about my character and then stand, heroic, as you flagellate me for imagined wrongs.


I'd expected better, Til. But maybe I should have known better, too.










Yeah...nothing insulting there...


Istated that your arguments are disagreeableNOT because I believe you've used buffbots, but because you YOURSELF have stooped to the point of making sweeping accusations against the entertainer community and proclaim to know what is best for the economic sectors of SWG, and proceeded to use a ridiculously arrogant manner of approach to your argument. You have no place calling other arguments unfounded when you have failed to provide ANY evidence that yours are to the contrary.




It's very simple, Til.


YOU LIED by stating that I use BuffBots, whereas I do NOT.

Someone who LIES may be branded a LIAR.

If you dislike being branded a LIAR, then I suggest you apologize for LYING about my practices.



IGN Memos
AnakinSWG
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:24 am
#220




Krupskaya wrote:


Consumers were designed to have choice in SWG. And the mere fact that you have so little respect for their ability to make a rational choice does not signify the Developers intended otherwise.





Their statements have alluded to other intentions. Refer to a RuneSabre quote from a recent Stratics developer chat.



~Til Kismeta~
I'm a dishonest man, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest.
It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, honestly. Because you can't tell when they're going to do something incredibly...stupid.



AnakinSWG
Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:25 am
#221




Krupskaya wrote:


It's very simple, Til.


YOU LIED by stating that I use BuffBots, whereas I do NOT.

Someone who LIES may be branded a LIAR.

If you dislike being branded a LIAR, then I suggest you apologize for LYING about my practices.



I did no such thing.




~Til Kismeta~
I'm a dishonest man, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest.
It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, honestly. Because you can't tell when they're going to do something incredibly...stupid.



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