Entertainer Archive
Thread: Healing XP slowing to a snail's pace?
riotcontrol wrote:
The abilities you've mentioned would, of course, become "needed". Don't tell me that a Pistoleer would actually participate in combat from a 35m range if 50m was available? Or that Weaponsmiths wouldn't take advantage of a Weapon Experimentation bonus? For something like that, they would probably keep an alt bot account, actually. (No, I'm not going to comment on the Creature Taming ability as I have no clue about what it does.) They would become a requirement, just as buffs were before the CURB.
You're right. People would be all over the cantina's looking for these. Just as they now pay millions for SEAs which do the same thing. So why is this a bad thing? You're taking away a requirement with a negative attached (BF) and replacing it with a positive experience. I would see that as an overall positive adjustment.
riotcontrol wrote:
? I don't get this. A bot would just macro 5 minutes of 1 routine, 5 minutes of another etc. with spams to let people know what's currently being enhanced. Either that or specializing in a set of routines (melee enhancements, ranged enhancements, crafting etc.), depending on how many there would be.
Easy... There are what, 34 different dances/songs now in game? At 5 minutes a piece you're talking 2 hours and50 minutes to run through all of them. I think most people would bypass the bot to find an ATK that could do it for them a lot faster.
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
JFreeman,
This sounds fine to me if it's what entertainers want. If the motivation though is to do away with battle-fatigue heal downtime for combat-types, then I'd suggest attacking the medical wounds rather than battle fatigue, because that is the far more difficult one to get healed. But if it's for the sake of entertainers, then cool.
As far as the entertainer changes go, all I ask is that you keep the crafters in mind when you make these changes. There are existing products like myoflex (bio-engineers), exquisite leotards (tailors) that are tied to the battle-fatigue healing system. It would sure be nice if these things were integrated with the new entertainer stuff whatever it may be, rather than just forgotten, which has become the standard expectation over the last 2 years.
JFreeman wrote:
We want entertainers to be more like 'entertainers', and less like 'healers'.
In general, we don't want to force interaction. You should go to watch an entertainer because you want to, not because you have to. It'll be better for this to be a positive interaction ("I go see an entertainer to get something good") rather than a negative interaction ("I go see an entertainer in order to get rid of something bad").
As Arthur stated, removing BF not only effects the entertainer but also the tailor and the Bio-Engineer. Has any thought been given to what effect this change will have on those professions?
With BE-modded clothes, a master does not take all that long to heal BF unless a change was instituted with Publish 18. The cantinas are effectively empty now and this change can only serve to empty them further. Is that your ultimate goal?
Luckily our server has a wonderful group of entertainers who perform in the NPC cantinas (and in player facilities when invited) every Friday night. Unfortunately, that is the only time you will find a cantina filled with entertainers and audience members.
We make a push to get players to stop in the ME cantina to help the new players and several masters (musician, ID, and dancer) spend time there helping the new players get acclimated to the game mechanics.
The CU has brought about the disintegration of all non-combat professions with the exception of shipwright as there is a place for the shipwright in the new game mechanics. Smoke and mirrors only works for so long.
omadnay wrote:
For what it's worth, I am not trying to pick any arguments here... just continuiing the discussion.
I know that probably didn't need to be said, but you know how things are... I just wanted to make sure the sincerity and respect is apparent.
Honestly I think +15m pistoleer range is a perfect example of something too powerful.
Simply put... if pistoleers could shoot from 50 meters instead of 35 meters, they would never want to shoot from 35 meters. They would always want the 50 meters.
I am a pistoleer and I can tell you, sure that's incentive... but it's alos one of those... if I don't have it, I'll feel gimped.
That was probably just a bad example on your part, but seriously, once you add any kind of bonuses... it's tough to make them worthwhile, yet not so great that they'd be viewed as necessity.
I'd imagine the +10% experimentation would be worth getting, but I will admit that in the realm of crafters, that shouldn't be too bad of a thing.
And I do love the idea of entertainers benefitting crafters... I've wanted that since day one.
The other thing that I will say is a positive of buffs post-CU (At least inspiration Buffs) is that they stay after logging out and logging back in.
So, ending your session by getting buffed and returning the next session with those buffs in tact is a great thing and would allow players to not have to start their sessions with preperation (Something I really resented... and loved about Space). I think most people want to log in and start doing what they want to do... and not have to spend time preparing.
I'm not going to say that things cannot improve without BF, but I also do not believe for a second that BF has to go away to make things any better.
No worries about the argument part. I'm really just following along with the original post from JFreeman. His comments about profession specific buffs sounds like a very viable solution to making the entertainers more appealing overall. 
Currently in game there are SEAs and Cyber limbs which do all of the things I used as examples. People pay millions to get them and no one finds them over powering.
I'm simply saying that there are ways to make going to the cantina a choice rather than a requirement. And in doing so, make it a positive for everyone involved in the process.
SmedleyLlama wrote:
Currently in game there are SEAs and Cyber limbs which do all of the things I used as examples. People pay millions to get them and no one finds them over powering.
This is totally an aside, but I'll just spit it out and be done, since I know you were just tossing examples of buffs.
No one finds a bonus like +15 range from 2 cyber limbs overpowering because you suffer several penalties alongside it. Less armor, Items that will decay no matter what (the arms are uninsurable). and there are negative skill mods too. They either need to be purchased, or obtained from reasonablydedicated questing. Believe me though, it is a very potent bonus. It's addictive, and you miss it when its gone (I wore one for a few days, then took the arm off until I needed it and had the other). I still find myself cursing for the added meters, it was like crack. To make a simple buff with no downside do the same thing WOULD be unbalanced. Especially since someone with 2 arms and such a buff might easily go beyond the practial limits of combat in the swg engine (95m) making it Pistol only would be even more unfair, since then Pistol users can crank out to rifle range.
As you said, just a tossed out example, but it's now an example about how each and every ProffBuff would need to be examined, and balanced. The fact that all these potential buffs are hush hush is bothersome in this regard, because while a surprise would be nice, the Devs are notorious for working past expoitable details, and missing the finer points that an ardent player will find and seize for unfair advantage.
psikobunny wrote:
This is totally an aside, but I'll just spit it out and be done, since I know you were just tossing examples of buffs.
You're right. It was just tossed out as an example, but you get the idea. 
There are enough possibilities to cover every song and dance step in the book, without making players super-human like the old buffs did.
JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.
We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.
This is easily one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen written concerning the entertaining professions...ever. Stage props? How exactly does that help the entertainer or the player being entertained (I don't know why I use that term anyway...they are just standing there depsoiting money into a machine(cover charge) and getting a good(inspiration buff)). Instead of taking the healing line and making it something useless...again...you could have done something that would have encouraged interaction across the board amongst all players, not completely sever it. You realize that adding 'props' is just adding fluff content to appease a few entertainers for a week or so, and then they will be bored with it. Why not implement something actually useful that will make people WANT to go see an entertainer?
In your following post, you say you don't want to force interaction...errr...I hope I'm reading that wrong. Of course, no one is forced to interact, but certainly you should encourage it, not entirely ignore it becuase it's the easier way out. The whole concept behind the entertainer professions was, in fact, social interaction. But, on the same hand, people want to feel useful. By you saying you are handing out props, you're basically giving them a useless feature and making them feel less needed.. At-the-keyboard entertainers already are at the same spot as an AFK one right now...who cares if you're there compared to someone AFK charging less (I do...I only listen and tip people actually there, but most don't do that)? The first thing you should have been looking into when deciding how to improve Entertainers was to figure out how to make them more useful to the game overall, and how to increase social interaction. When I walk into a cantina, I don't want to stare at a cantina full of unneeded 'props' with bots spamming me to paya stupid cover charge just so I can gain a little more XP. You know what I would prefer? I would prefer to walk into a cantina, be greeted by a fellow player with a smile and a 'how are you doing?' Then talk for a bit and maybe select a particular kind of buff that would enhance my profession (why are you adding buffs only for non-combat professions anyway?). Also, if I was in a rush, I could ignore some of the social interaction and just get a buff from a person playing...but they would be LIVE playing. The fact that buff bot playing is still going on even though this should have been a primary issue is beyond me.
The only thing I can discern from all of this is that you're kind of taking the easy way out on all of this. I was an Entertainer for a while, and I also have an alt account that I played Dancer on for sometime, and I was always at my keyboard...and I enjoyed talking to people. Soon, however,I found my role in the game (and basically every entertainer's) was reduced to essentially nothing, and could be replaced by someone leaving their account active while not even there. It would have been nice to have been included in the new game (aka the CU), but I see that this is no longer going to be an option. Perhaps you should go and take a thorough look at how many players respec'd their characters from a pure Enterainer build (or even a hybrid) and put it entirely into combat now because there simply is NOTHING to do as an active Entertainer player...you are just completely not needed. A bot can do all your work for you. Oh...but the social interaction...that was still a fun part. However, it seems that you 'dont want to enforce' that, so go ahead and nix that part as well.
It really is disheartening to see the one archetype of professions in this game that made it entirely unique from all other MMO's flushed down the drain, for whatever reason. You really do need to take a second and consider what makes the profession fun and why people want to do it...they like to help people and they want to be an active part of the game, not just someone that can be stared at. Realize that for a moment, then look back at your proposed additions and tell me if that really solves the problems at hand.
Docs may disagree with that though, I'm not certain.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
I do hope that factional items can be included in this design.
If there is one aspect of fun that the CU has damaged, it is in the armor limitations, especially for factional armors... namely Storm Trooper Armor.
One great element of this game was people being able to collect classic Star Wars props and costumes and play a little Star Wars make-beleve.
Now, people have a difficuly time being able to equip Storm Trooper Armor.
Scout Trooper Armor is a great addition, but it is not even close to Storm Trooper Armor in terms of classic Star Wars Fun.
Of all of the ranged professions, only a Carbineer can equip this armor.
While the concept of the Professional Certifications is understood... the loss of these fun elements of gameplay does not equal the balancing this design was set up for.
Anyhoo... at least if this Prop Idea can include Factional Items, there could be some great news within this design.
May the force be with you.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
Sounds interesting. I look forward to seeing more details about these changes!
JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.
We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.
JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.
We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.
NeillM wrote:
Sounds interesting. I look forward to seeing more details about these changes!
JFreeman wrote:
Yes, it's too slow.
We want to change the 'healing' line to a 'props' line that allows you to craft and utilize 'stage props' (weapons, armor and so on that just look like weapons and armor). We're increasing the xp rate gain overall, and removing battle fatigue from the game entirely. We have some other enhancements to the entertainer professions that we want to do as well (profession-specific inspiration buffs for non-combat professions), but this is what is currently in development.
As do I. It's certainly an interesting step to take, and probably not one I would have thought coming, but I can understand the motive. Entertaining should be much more content-centered, and less reliant on service provision. I'll be interested in seeing what follows.
*cough*Quest-based levelling please*cough*
Unless of course these changes-- which will destroy entertainers even though on the surface some of the things sound nice, most people won't go see an Enterainer unless there's a game reason to sadly-- are part of the grand plan to ruin all other classes but BH/Jedi.