Entertainer Archive

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Shug_Ninx wrote:

Although we do realize that the Holocron-grinding has led to quite a few AFK Entertainers (something we're hoping to remedy with the revision to the Jedi system), Ialso believe that the cantinas have become the social hubs that we had hoped for.

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Message Edited by mmaughme on 02-04-2004 02:31 PM

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Shug_Ninx wrote:
I also believe that the cantinas have become the social hubs that we had hoped for.

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Umm... what the heck is your definition of "cantinas becoming the social hub?"

A few weeks ago I did a "cantina survey" of what I call the "Naboo local group" of planets -- Naboo, Lok, Endor, Tatooine (I didn't get around to Rori). These are NPC cities only. I stayed in each one for about 15 minutes just to see what was going on.

Here is what I found:

• Naboo
  
  
  
  1. Keren -- Zero players.
     
  2. Kaadara -- Zero players.
     
  3. Moenia -- One dancer, silent, AFK, bumping into the walls. Two players, silent, AFK, being healed.
     
  4. Theed -- A large group (15+), all but 2 or 3 AFK. Some chatter, some socializing. You could call this a social place, I guess. Though only about 8 patrons and 2 or 3 performers were doing the talking (out of probably 30 people in the place).
     
  
  
• Tatooine
  
  
  
  1. Mos Entha -- Zero players.
     
  2. Mos Espa -- Zero players.
     
  3. Mos Eisley -- Zero players.
     
  4. Bestine -- A small group of 4 performers. Three were AFK. One was live. Two patrons were chatting with the live person and chatted with me. Two other people came in and got healed silently off the AFKers and left without a word, while I was there.
     
  5. Anchorhead -- A large group 8 or 10, all AFK. Some chatter, some socializing, among the patrons. None among the performers (unless you count AFK macro spam-tip-requests).
     
  
  
• Lok
  
  
  
  1. Nym's Stronghold -- One AFK musician playing SW2 unflourished. While I was there two people came in, silently healed, ignored my attempts to chat with them, and walked out. Both listened to the AFK musician instead of me.
     
  
  
• Endor
  
  
  
  1. Research Outpost -- Zero players
     
  
  

Unless you meant to say, specifically, that THEED cantina has become the social hub of the game and that this is what you wanted, I fail to see how my survey supports your claim that the cantina is a social hub.

On the contrary. The cantina has become an empty wasteland. Back in the day (pre-Labor Day I would say), nearly every cantina on Naboo and Tatooine was manned. I remember back in August I went to Tatooine for the first time (my characer finally had a bit of money) and I did a tour of all the cantinas. There was a band in every one. I did a half-hour stint or so with each. Then came back to Espa, which has the nicest folks, and danced with them the rest of the day. If I tried that again today, I'd get... nothing, nothing, nothing, AFKers, nothing, AFkers... Not one single group of active performers on the entire planet.

No no Shuggie, you are mistaken. What you should have said, had you wanted to be accurate, was, "The cantina started out as the social hub of the galaxy but is now an empty shell of its former self."

Before we can have any sort of effective communication about this problem you people are going to have to admit it, and acknowledge that it is true. If you keep maintaining that empty cantinas are the social hub of the galaxy, you are in denial, or you are on some serious hallucinogens.

C

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Karquile wrote:
And I think that the anti-AFK arguments that Entertainers make are often laced with hypocrisy. They aremore than happy to accept Healing XP, tips, and buff fees from customers who are themselves AFK. There's no great outcry on these boards about how those folks are "cheating." But oh, let a dancer across the room go AFK, and the very fabric of the game is threatened!

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I can't speak for anyone else, but for me... I'd rather get ZERO xp and carry on an interesting conversation, than get a hundred thousand xp while staring at a room without a word being said for 5 hours.

C

I read this whole thread, some excellent posts.

The answers to those questions make me feel like quitting the entertainment field and picking up doctor.

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Karquile wrote:

How do you think a Mayor makes money? I'm a Master Politician with a city of 116 citizens as of this morning. I don't make a dime. I probably juggle more conversations in the course of a day, and have to be "cordial" to more people, than you ever will. But if I want to buy a better robe, I have to get down off my little throne thingie and run some missions like anyone else.

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I agree with many previous posters in this thread that there have been some excellent posts. I also feel that the communication with the Devs hasn't hurt us. How much or how little it has helped us is up for discussion in another of Tiaga's threads.

However, after reading the remainder of the thread, I feel angry and frustrated that our profession is so vocally disregarded by our fellow players, fellow entertainers and combatant-customers alike.

I read Tiaga's post saying he tries to represent what the community tells him they (we) want. Thank you for that Tiaga, and thank you to the Devs for taking time to at least hear some feedback from us. I eagerly await action to fix bugs and problems.

I want to know why it's ok for us entertainers to have to take any time (part, full, one tick more than zero) to do missions for our money when this simply would not fly in other professions. This was the player attitude before mission terminals were added too: back then the comment was "pick up Pistoleer as a side prof." now it's "do a mission where the shuttle ticket is more than the payout"

Our goal as entertainers, and I believe I heard the Dev's goal for the prof., is as socializers--not even part-time burger flippers. Perhaps I've taken an extreme view. However, I do believe that at least as a Master, one should not ever have to pick up anythingmore harmfull thana slither horn for the purpose of making money.

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Chessack wrote:

Before we can have any sort of effective communication about this problem you people are going to have to admit it, and acknowledge that it is true. If you keep maintaining that empty cantinas are the social hub of the galaxy, you are in denial, or you are on some serious hallucinogens.

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TH said he'd come back to the thread the following work week to answer questions...

or NOT... th this is bad form TH, very very bad

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Chessack wrote:

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Shug_Ninx wrote:
I also believe that the cantinas have become the social hubs that we had hoped for.

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Umm... what the heck is your definition of "cantinas becoming the social hub?"

A few weeks ago I did a "cantina survey" of what I call the "Naboo local group" of planets -- Naboo, Lok, Endor, Tatooine (I didn't get around to Rori). These are NPC cities only. I stayed in each one for about 15 minutes just to see what was going on.

Here is what I found:

• Naboo
  
  
  
  
  
  1. Keren -- Zero players.
     
     
  2. Kaadara -- Zero players.
     
     
  3. Moenia -- One dancer, silent, AFK, bumping into the walls. Two players, silent, AFK, being healed.
     
     
  4. Theed -- A large group (15+), all but 2 or 3 AFK. Some chatter, some socializing. You could call this a social place, I guess. Though only about 8 patrons and 2 or 3 performers were doing the talking (out of probably 30 people in the place).
     
  
  
  
• Tatooine
  
  
  
  
  
  1. Mos Entha -- Zero players.
     
     
  2. Mos Espa -- Zero players.
     
     
  3. Mos Eisley -- Zero players.
     
     
  4. Bestine -- A small group of 4 performers. Three were AFK. One was live. Two patrons were chatting with the live person and chatted with me. Two other people came in and got healed silently off the AFKers and left without a word, while I was there.
     
     
  5. Anchorhead -- A large group 8 or 10, all AFK. Some chatter, some socializing, among the patrons. None among the performers (unless you count AFK macro spam-tip-requests).
     
  
  
  
• Lok
  
  
  
  
  
  1. Nym's Stronghold -- One AFK musician playing SW2 unflourished. While I was there two people came in, silently healed, ignored my attempts to chat with them, and walked out. Both listened to the AFK musician instead of me.
     
  
  
  
• Endor
  
  
  
  
  
  1. Research Outpost -- Zero players
     
  
  

Unless you meant to say, specifically, that THEED cantina has become the social hub of the game and that this is what you wanted, I fail to see how my survey supports your claim that the cantina is a social hub.

On the contrary. The cantina has become an empty wasteland. Back in the day (pre-Labor Day I would say), nearly every cantina on Naboo and Tatooine was manned. I remember back in August I went to Tatooine for the first time (my characer finally had a bit of money) and I did a tour of all the cantinas. There was a band in every one. I did a half-hour stint or so with each. Then came back to Espa, which has the nicest folks, and danced with them the rest of the day. If I tried that again today, I'd get... nothing, nothing, nothing, AFKers, nothing, AFkers... Not one single group of active performers on the entire planet.

No no Shuggie, you are mistaken. What you should have said, had you wanted to be accurate, was, "The cantina started out as the social hub of the galaxy but is now an empty shell of its former self."

Before we can have any sort of effective communication about this problem you people are going to have to admit it, and acknowledge that it is true. If you keep maintaining that empty cantinas are the social hub of the galaxy, you are in denial, or you are on some serious hallucinogens.

C

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Exactly the same experience I made on Gorath.

Empty towns and cantinas, exept Coronet and Theed or the one and other afk "player" around.

In moment the entertainer vision is dead. And the answers (or nonanswers) from Thunder gave no much hope to me and the future. As long SOE does not see, that there is a problem, and thinks, all works as intended, and itwould befun to play in empty cantinas and towns or in middle of Zombies, I cannot see a light at the horizon.

Not one answer here gave me anything to gladdly expect a future patch.

I read no new flourishes, dances in a conceivable time.

No new clothes, stuff, equipment to expect before next X-mas or teh X-mas after.

No changes to hope for with missions or some content for entertainers.

And last and not least. The DEVS have given up finally with the afk issue. I remember Holocrons vision about this and the promisses to do all to avoid it in the betaforums

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Aniella (Gorath) Dancer, Fencer /mood very crestfallen

I remember mutterings that there had been rumorsaround the end of beta that some folk in the officeswanted to do away with entertainers as a class/skillset before things went live. But the innovation had been hyped so much that there was no way to do without looking bad.

Maybe they just want to let the class die out from player frustration/disgust and then they can say it was "A grand idea that unfortunately wasn't supported by enough of the player base" and can it. Who knows. I still play my horn, but not in Theed or Coronet. There's no point.

I miss the days of Jelly Roll and crew and all the other great bands from Beta and the first few months of release. Those were the cantina halcyon days...we won't see the like again.

"We have watched our tips, our client base and our respect fall to such low levels that I know quite a few players who are considering dropping this game"

Considered, and already done. My two accounts are cancelled and expire on March 2. My boyfriend has also cancelled his account and is currently enjoying playing a game in which one can kill any macroer they come across (not to mention that unattended gameplay and macroing are not permitted by this game's EULA, so the person will get killed and possibly face an account ban if caught).

Innovation means nothing if you don't follow through on it, and I have to say that I will never, ever play another 'massively multiplayer' game that permits macroing. If the game developers can't make all aspects of their game interesting, they should face the consequences not have some pitiful band aid. (Consequences being: People cancelling their accounts because too much of the required game play is boring).

Last post from me, looks like my accounts will expire before the dancer 10 questions are answered. Why am I not surprised?

Take care all, it's been real...at least, for those of us actually *playing*.

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Velvet-dancer wrote:

....

Last post from me, looks like my accounts will expire before the dancer 10 questions are answered. Why am I not surprised?

Take care all, it's been real...at least, for those of us actually *playing*.

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You will be missed Velvet-dancer. Maybe they are waiting for us to die out thru attrition. I've lost so manyfriends so far its frightening. and I know others who are one step from leaving. I quess I'm a die hard tho....at least for know.