Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Thunderheart--on Utiliy in droids..can this be right?
Helstrum
Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:13 am
#105
I can only speak for myself, but right now I doubt how much of a "Droid Invasion" there really will be. While many people are going to look at and even buy droids due to the publish, I am seeing that it is mostly out of curiosity.
Personally, I wouldn't be disappointed if droids never broke or wore down as long as people saw them as a vital tool of their game play experience. People have their favorite blaster they save for special fights. Maybe some armor that they really like. Even buffs that they cannot live with out.
Personally, I wouldn't be disappointed if droids never broke or wore down as long as people saw them as a vital tool of their game play experience. People have their favorite blaster they save for special fights. Maybe some armor that they really like. Even buffs that they cannot live with out.
What makes me sad is that it is not the same relationship with droids. I am not seeing people running around with their R2 out...just because. I am not seeing people with their droids out any longer then need be. A big part of this is the limited uses that droids have.
Is a pistol or armor of limited use too? Sure it is. You can't craft with either of these two things. You can't use it to harvest materials. However, people still get attached to these things because they do their jobs well, and maybe save the player from a horrible death.
This makes people seek out the best smiths on their servers. It makes them want to find the best items possible.
In the final analysis, I think all DE's want this. We want other players to be as passionate about what we build as we are.
I am not sure if the currentlyplanned droid modules are getting anyone excited.
You say that this lays the groundwork for more modules in the future. I can only hope. This "Droid Invasion" is not being taken as an invasion by a lot of people. I do not expect it to be as grand as the title you have chosen for the publish. However, in 6 months, I want look back and think that this was where the progress started.
To that goal, here is what I suggest. Much of what was suggested for modules this round was because of discussions with DE's. This was a mistake. A mistake by the Devs and by the DE's in my opinion. The reason is that DE's do not sell to DE's. The discussion needed to be directly with our customers. What does the general population want? Even better yet, what does an underutilized profession want?
I hope that one day DE's will be on par with many other craftingprofessions. I do worry that our profession is seriously flawed right now and will need more then modules to satisfy what the consumers want.
Thanks for your time,
Ar-Ulric
Master Droid Engineer
SkyeDarkangel
Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:16 am
#106
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
Unfortunately, I can not spend more time talking about what my plansare with all of the communities in SWG. I wish I could, but, ultimately it's my job to deliver and that's where I spend most of my time; scheduling and driving tasks to completion internally
aka. I've said too much and you're asking too many questions. This is going somewhere I need to get back to my job and not someone elses better before I get in trouble*cough* *cough*
PlayeroftheDay
Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:19 am
#107
Droids Maintaining Factories:
I suggest using the datapad, basically create a module that can go into droid called "Factory Maintanence Module". The player needs to go to the factory desired to be maintained, pull out the droid and then from the radial of the factory have the ability to link the droid to the factory via datapad. At this point come up with a selection of Money Maintanence or Power Maintanence. You have to choose one or the other, not both. To enable both you would need two droids as only one can be linked to a specific pool.
All Items/Droids/Factories etc have a serial number or a Primary Key of sorts, when you link the factory to the droid it inserts the Droids Serial number into a field in the factory's dataset or "row".
Example:
Factory:
Serial_Number| $_Droid | Power_Droid|
000001 |000002 | 000003 |
or some such.
Now it doesn't really matter if the droid is out and running around the factory that is merely cosmetic, but what you have is the ability to remotley add power and/or money to the factory. Basically using a droid to create a remote control of sorts that can give you the ability to access the factory's radial menu from the Datapad. I'm not really sure how you have your Oracle DB setup but I believe this is do-able from my database programming experience.
Well, it was worth a suggestion.
Tesshu
TheRealTK421
Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:19 am
#108
/bow
SWG-Runesabre wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Excellent. So.....what does this mean specifically?
You've all asked us countless times to put forth ideas, suggestions, etc. to that end.
However, we have had precious little in the way of communication in-kind from the Devs on this.
What do YOU suggest be added, in regard to..."[adding] utility in a way that adds to the overall game and not a refinement or enhancement of a pre-exsting game mechanic."??
I think that most DEs will probably cancel if we get asked one more time to give you our ideas and suggestions. It's time for that door to swing the other way.
We've posted a fairly detailed plan two weeks ago of what we are planning on doing in Publish 7 and Publish 8 as well as what we've already done in Publish 6.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=24997
Uhhh...yea, I saw that. I agree that this has a lot of good items on it.
Specifically relating to "utility" modules, I have to state this (so you are aware):
None of the modules that you put forth (aside from the Exploding module) have even been requested or even hinted at by any of my clients. I'm concerned here that the work that's being done will lead to droid modules that won't actually get used all that often (i.e. the "Data storage" module). I have sold exactly 1 of those........
One.
....in almost 6 months of being an MDE.
Please keep that in mind as you push forward with these modules.
In addition, as relates to the link you posted, there were a LOT of valid questions, issues and concerns that both the DE and non-DE community put forth. To the best of my knowledge, very few of those have been adequately answered (for a development initiative as large as the two-publish Droid Invasion).
Unfortunately, I can not spend more time talking about what my plansare with all of the communities in SWG. I wish I could, but, ultimately it's my job to deliver and that's where I spend most of my time; scheduling and driving tasks to completion internally.
I don't think we are asking you to 'live' on the DE boards. However, having a post about our future that raises 10x's the questions that it answers doesn't equate to "information" on our future.
I recall seeing CH related posts that seemed to contain volumes of info on their situation and future. I'm sorry, but since day one, it seems like we've received a great amount of enigmatic and 'shifty' answers (I know that's not your doing...I just want to let you know how an old-timer sees what's happening here).
Message Edited by SWG-Runesabre on 03-04-2004 02:09 PM
Respectfully,
meeuki
Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:31 am
#109
Ultimately, this is the problem. Slicing droids and any kind of droid module that augments a player's innate skills isn't going to happen. Its basically "free" skills and abilities and I can't sell that unless we also agree to lower everyones innate skills to balance it out...and I can't see everyone saying, "lets nerf everyone so we can have cooler droids".
Ok, i'm not a DE, but i am a customer and interested in all things dealing with SW immersion. droids is one of them.
i don't understand this at all, if i'm missing part of this arguement can someone explain it?
a droid that enhances slicing or rifle aiming or whatever else is no different than my +10 rifle accuracy composite gloves or +25 weapon experimentation belt. isn't that a "free" skill or ability? those are ok it seems, but has everyone been nerfed because i can have one of those?
maybe that's totally different from the functionality the majority of DE's are requesting, if so i've missed the bus on this discussion i guess, but it seems from what i'm reading that 'augmenting a players skills' like stated above is part of what DE's are asking for. if that's true then what is the difference? am i just slow?
Ok, i'm not a DE, but i am a customer and interested in all things dealing with SW immersion. droids is one of them.
i don't understand this at all, if i'm missing part of this arguement can someone explain it?
a droid that enhances slicing or rifle aiming or whatever else is no different than my +10 rifle accuracy composite gloves or +25 weapon experimentation belt. isn't that a "free" skill or ability? those are ok it seems, but has everyone been nerfed because i can have one of those?
maybe that's totally different from the functionality the majority of DE's are requesting, if so i've missed the bus on this discussion i guess, but it seems from what i'm reading that 'augmenting a players skills' like stated above is part of what DE's are asking for. if that's true then what is the difference? am i just slow?
KzinKiller
Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:33 am
#110
We've posted a fairly detailed plan two weeks ago of what we are planning on doing in Publish 7 and Publish 8 as well as what we've already done in Publish 6.
Well, I think what you're seeing from your community is pretty consistent:
Publish 7: combat modules that nobody will want or buy because of their pathetic weakness
Publish 8: utility modules that nobody will want or buy because of their extremely limited utility
And that's it ... referring to that information as the dev response to customer requests for improvements in droids will not stop the requests from rolling in, because if you didn't get the message already guys, that answer was not satisfactory, not even a teensy weensy bit.
JavelinCatcher
Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:34 am
#111
meeuki wrote:
maybe that's totally different from the functionality the majority of DE's are requesting, if so i've missed the bus on this discussion i guess, but it seems from what i'm reading that 'augmenting a players skills' like stated above is part of what DE's are asking for. if that's true then what is the difference? am i just slow?
That's exactly what we're asking.
Arcid
Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:42 am
#112
Well, one thing that I could see as being a way forward would be to have "Expert Systems" modules based on a similar mechanism to skilltapes (Using looted parts to provide skill bonuses). However it looks like the main bonus droids could provide would be to cut down or remove HAM costs (Granted it would be a whole lot better if we had droids that could actually Do this) But here's what bugs me: "Chef Revamp" Gave chefs great abilities that touched on all professions and made chef craftables highly desirable items, while the "Droid Invasion" is adding a few generic combat items and modules that are somewhat useful to a small section of the population
Also,I remember a while back Thunderheart talking about putting p a definate list of limitations and requirements for high level combat droids so that we could start trying to help the Devs with a system for higher level combat droids, anyone seen any sign of it yet?
Atteke
Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:21 am
#113
Maybe you DE could start your Droid ideas with "I grinded 20 Professtions and......" that should get the Devs working.
Edit: You would expect the DZ-70 Fugitive Tracker Droid to give Bounty Hunters a Droid Precision bonus.
Message Edited by Atteke on 03-05-2004 03:51 PM
Shian_Tavkin
Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:43 am
#114
Masen wrote:
Rune, after that last post..and TH's complete and total inability to communicate anything over 5 words without mangling the crap out of it...I'm done lookin on the bright side. Know what the Bright side is? We're gonna get useless droids..and they'll nerf BE pets to bring them down the the level of Probots and DZ70s. That's the big plan, I guarantee it. an I won't beleive otherwise till someone explains to TH exactly what is planned. Screw this whole 'we know what we're doing' well guess what? We're paying for the game here, is it unreasonable to ask a simple question? WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?! You tell us all about this Mythical 'Droid Invasion' and then give us the same doubletalk, hot air, and vague crap we've been fed for 7 months now. Well?
Put up or shut up man- You ask for our input, We offer it, only to hear 'That's not what we have in mind' over and over- and don't point me to TH's post, because it's nothin but 2 pages of vague, inconclusive crud. You say 'We're not adding in skill enhancers' so...instead we offer other ideas, only to hear 'We can't impliment that at this time'. You add in comments like 'We've improved Probot HAM' BULL. TEN points don't mean anything, a Nuna does 50. IMPROVED ham would be on par with BE pets. 2K. 3K. I see FAILED pets on the bazaar for 6K all the time on naritus with 2-4K in all HAMs, for NON CH. We TRY time and again to give you good, solid, doable ideas..But without knowing what ideas you're looking for, this is like shooting at a mouse in a dark room. We're not gonna hit anything at this rate- TELL US WHAT YOU WANT MAN. That is what we been asking..if TH can't do the job, Hire the guy some help for cryin out loud. With the cash flow you got comin in from subscriptions, I'd think you could hire a second person, someone with more knowledgeof crafting in general.
I'm done tryin to contribute here, until someone tells me what you freakin want me TO contribute..an no more of this 'I'm too busy' crap. We get the shaft for SEVEN months here, you feed us this 'Droid Invasion' bull, and then, tell us repeatedly our ideas are off base. When we was what the friggin base IS, we get 'We told you that' over and over. Umm no, you didn't. I read it, 5 times, and every idea I seen is in those guidelines, but you keep saying that's not the mark. For 7 months we put up with no communication, devs who have NO idea what it is we even do, and useless products that no one wants. We keep shellin out our 15 bucks, like the twisted masochists we apparently are, to be told over and over there's no way we're ever gonna be useful. We get our ONE chance, and you build our hopes up that maybe, just MAYBE we can finally be a viable class, and not the galactic joke we are now. Some of us take up the class again, after dumping it, and spend hundreds of thousands of credits to grind to master AGAIN...only to be let down yet again. What else should we expect? I tell ya..When Blair took over the reins, and started whippin all these classes into shape..and the improvements made to CH (yes, I'm nearly master CH now, and picked it up after the fix, and enjoy it) when he said that DE was gonna gtet TWO full publishes to whip it into shape..I wasn't alone in being incredibly excited. All the hype, and yes, TH's message, stated that DE was gonna get the treatment it deserved finally. Like all the others, I was a gullible sucker. I actually beleived the crap. What an idiot, should have known better.
I'm stickin till publish 8. If that hits, and stinks as bad as I expect, then friends, family, everyone can stuff it. I'm done, I'm gone. I'm through paying to be lied to and insulted repeatedly. I can get that for free.
I had some funny little comment to stick here...A little sig or something...But I'm just not feelin too witty right now. I think I'll be callin it a night. I've had it up to here with the lies and crap. To all you DEs stickin it out...good luck. I am seriously doubting I'll be around to see them hit live at this rate.
By Heavens
That was well said !!
Kilarny
Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:53 am
#115
Anybody want to lay some credits on whether we can get an answer to even ONE of the questions from the last 3 weeks today? Or even the burning question of Droids, the Universe, and Everything:
What is the purpose of the Droid Engineer class in term of the overall game structure?
Maybe we should go with that little pop-up description from the Skills window, what was it...something like
"A Master Droid Engineer can craft a wide variety of useful (and deadly) droids."
HawkCormyr
Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:02 am
#116
The reply to the burning question of Droids, the Universe, and Everything is
42
ArteL
Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:14 am
#117
you will get no more answers from the DEVs on Droids... (not that any of the previous answers were really answers anyway.... just like we never got a answer on why armor decays twice, or why you can still wear tailor clothes after a condition of 0 is hit)
There is NO invasion! It all just smoke and whistles!
and its funny, this kind of thread back when SWG was first released, would have been on 20 pages now, with people helping and whatnot.... kinda like the "PVP Decay Thread and Outrage that happened".... now, I think everyone see's that Droids are going no where, and nobody has any interest in them anymore....
/sad