Droid Engineer Archive

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ArteL wrote:

you will get no more answers from the DEVs on Droids... (not that any of the previous answers were really answers anyway.... just like we never got a answer on why armor decays twice, or why you can still wear tailor clothes after a condition of 0 is hit)

There is NO invasion! It all just smoke and whistles!

and its funny, this kind of thread back when SWG was first released, would have been on 20 pages now, with people helping and whatnot.... kinda like the "PVP Decay Thread and Outrage that happened".... now, I think everyone see's that Droids are going no where, and nobody has any interest in them anymore....

/sad

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Ahh, we have come full circle and returned to where we started:

Droids: Where we were and where we're going

What's everybody think?

Me:

Where We Were: semi-broken

Where We Are Going: I waffle between "back to semi-broken" and "nowhere fast"

I hate these limitations because they horribly undermine some of the primary means of making droids useful. However I do not blame the devs for this, nor am I going to argue that they are wrong. They want droids to be useful as much as we do, and if they say that these are the limitations, then sooner or later we are going to have to accept this. There is no way anyone can expect us to like it, but we had better start dealing with it and look for solutions within these parameters.

That said, I see great possibilities in one of the suggestions already out there. The Valet droid.. The idea is the droid will deliver items to a waypoint and wait for a specified player to come and get them. This would be very useful to crafters who create custom orders for players and need a simple way to deliver the items to the buyer once they are ready.

However it is the principle behind the idea that excites me most. The droid would perform a function that is valuable to a player yet the task requires no skill whatsoever. (By skill I mean an in-game skill like surveying or slicing) The value of this function is that it saves the player time and effort.

Another idea along those lines was the Factory/Harvester maintenance droid. A droid that would manage factories and harvesters. Again, maintaining harvesters requires no player skill and does not involve any risk. Having a droid do it is simply a time saver. Unfortunately, we have been told that this is not technically possible. The merchant barker droid, an idea already endorsed by the devs, is another example of a droid performing an unskilled task.

It is clear that if droids are ever going to be useful, they are going to have to be taken in a new direction. I believe that giving droids unskilled, but useful tasks is that direction. This is where player input will be most valuable, since we know these tasks better than anyone. What we need to do is think of unskilled things that we do everyday in the game, (Like delivering items, barking or maintaining harvesters) and consider if this task can be given to a droid.

One final note to Thunderheart: If this sounds like it is on track, I urge you to go to the corespondents and have them approach each profession and ask for ideas on tasks that a droid could perform for them. We would be breaking new ground here and we would need ideas from the entire spectrum of the community.

The value of this function is that it saves the player time and effort.

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KzinKiller wrote:

The value of this function is that it saves the player time and effort.

Regrettably, this seems to be a major reason not to add functionality, in the devs' minds.


I would absolutely agree with this. That's why I've stated in the past that all design decisions seem to be based solely around $$$ and not what is "best" to make a better, more Star-Warsy game.


There is obviously a strong mindset at SOE that player time & effort = subscription renewals.


Yup. Anything that makes it so that a player doesn't have to spend time (read: money) to _________ in the game means less $$$ they will see via renewals.

Basically, what that says to me is that droids can never fulfill the purpose that they have in SW movies or EU because it runs counter to the business aspect of the game.

So, this profession gets uniquely'smacked down' where other professions get to have their "checkers".


Hologrinding really says it all in this area. They don't *want* systems that save player time and effort, they want systems that increase the time and effort required to accomplish the most mundane tasks ... the more mundane, the better.


I would agree with this 187%. Anything that makes a player take longer to do a task is better in their minds, since it means more money.

When it's all about money, and NOT about making a better/cooler/more-fun game, we players lose. Period.

I wish it were not so, because I think this mindset is 100% wrong and will ultimately kill any game that insists on implementing it as customers flock to superior alternatives.


Yup.Again...you have your finger on 'the button' quite well. This is, in fact, the 'technological limitation' that I believe keeps us from having any numberof droid features and functions. It means that a player will be forced to grind out some thing or another (and have to spend money doing it) instead of being able to pawn off that task on a droid (like they actually WOULD in SW and its EU).

So much for following continuity, huh?

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Runesaber: in my opinion, there is a very simple way to take a good step forward in publish 8 without having to add more utility modules than what you already have.

I'm not saying not to add more. but I think if there are no other modules on the plate for publish 8 other than the entertainer and the merchant barker modules, then a good way to make publish 8 much better would be to do the following:

enhance our current modules so that the maximum rating for each type of module is a function of the chassis. examples:

1. increase the medical rating cap for the surgical droid. right now the surgical chassis has no gameplay value whatsoever. this change would give it value.


2. increase the storage module rating cap for the BLL droid. i realize this may be touchy because you may be reluctant to increase the storage rating for any droid beyond 10 items. but unless this is done, the BLL will continue to be a droid that has no gameplay value whatsoever. publish 6 has done nothing of value for the BLL. it's still nothing more than a very large and expensive master de droid that has the same functionality as the novice de's only droid.


3. give the le repair droid a "free" repair module. and of course, fix the fact that the repair command is currently broken on this droid. without something like this the LE repair droid is another droid that currently has no gameplay value whatsoever.


4. protocol droid? i don't know what to suggest about this droid. it has no gameplay value either and I can't think of any easy way to give it any value short of adding new features to the game, and I am trying not to suggest new styles of gameplay with this list. might as well give it an increased data storage cap. the data storage module is useless, but at least the protocol droid would have an inherent function if you did that. /shrug

the items on this list are not asking for augmentation of any profession, nor are they asking to add any new modules. I amjust suggesting to add a little sanity to the currentsystemby giving each chassis some inherent function.

the combat system on test works exactly this way already: the cap on the combat potential for each droid is a function of the chassis. if you make it so that the existing utility modules work the same way it would expand our choices and options when crafting a droid 10 fold. It wouldn't give us much more new functionality, but it would expand our options immensly.

no longer would the R-series droids be the only logical choice for a good utility droid.

it's good to have R-type utility droids that have many modules and are therefor multi-faceted, but the factwith the current system is this: since the otherchassis have no inherent functionality, none of the high level droids other than the R-series and the Probot have any gameplay value at all. at the currenttime, the only thing that determines the value of a utility droid is the number of module slots in the chassis. so long as all chassis have the same cap for each utility rating, this will continue to be the case and therefore all the high level droids which have a low number of modules will continue to have no useful function in this game.

There is a deathly silence since Runesabre spoke, and I for one find this very worrying.

Again I say, Please Runesabre, tell us that there IS the possibility to have Droids augment the player abilities, like Chef and Bio-Eng.

We are very hungry for your feedback..please dont be a visitor who never comes back. To be honest we have had that all along, and it's past due that things changed.

We KNOW you are busy, but this is your choice, these 2 publishes have been scheduled by SOE. Is it really too much to ask the Lead Designer to feedback when we ARE the focus?

From what I know of you, you do want to comment..so if you are restrained..just say so.

Thankyou

P.S. Your comments on Sodan's post really would be most welcome, although it is not concerned with Utility.

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Shian_Tavkin wrote:

There is a deathly silence since Runesabre spoke, and I for one find this very worrying.

Again I say, Please Runesabre, tell us that there IS the possibility to have Droids augment the player abilities, like Chef and Bio-Eng.

We are very hungry for your feedback..please dont be a visitor who never comes back. To be honest we have had that all along, and it's past due that things changed.

We KNOW you are busy, but this is your choice, these 2 publishes have been scheduled by SOE. Is it really too much to ask the Lead Designer to feedback when we ARE the focus?

From what I know of you, you do want to comment..so if you are restrained..just say so.

Thankyou

P.S. Your comments on Sodan's post really would be most welcome, although it is not concerned with Utility.

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KzinKiller wrote:

The value of this function is that it saves the player time and effort.

Regrettably, this seems to be a major reason not to add functionality, in the devs' minds. There is obviously a strong mindset at SOE that player time & effort = subscription renewals. Hologrinding really says it all in this area. They don't *want* systems that save player time and effort, they want systems that increase the time and effort required to accomplish the most mundane tasks ... the more mundane, the better.

I wish it were not so, because I think this mindset is 100% wrong and will ultimately kill any game that insists on implementing it as customers flock to superior alternatives. But we won't know that until such an alternative becomes available.

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I know a lot of frustrated players will not agree with me here, but I don't think this is the case. SOE are good enought business people to realise that the way to increase subscription renewals is to make the game fun.

As for the hollo grinding, ithas more to do with the Jedi Paradox. (Almost no one can be a Jedi, but almost everyone wants to be a Jedi)

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Firetracker wrote:

Why did people make droids in the Star Wars universe? I think you will find it was to enhance skills and allow characters to do things that they could not otherwise do. Why else build droids? For decoration?

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I have to say, /cry and /sob and /mourn...

I did DE. I loved the way you had to piece them all together, and make all the little parts. I didn't stick with it, I was doing it to "unlock the slot" which once I realized what Hologrinding was (i.e. getting me to play more and pay more) I dropped that account like a bad habit.

I've always been a fan of droids. while I may no longer make and sell them, I do want to buyand use them. I'm aghast at this turn of events for you all, as well as what it entails for every class awaiting a revamp. consider the following:

• Imperial Crackdown: Touted as a great and wonderful patch that would add immersion and balance the faction numbers out, it has only served to offer free rebel faction to rebel players who can mow down the hordes of ST's in the 3 cities, as well as piss off the smuggler commuity to no end with bad precedent.


• Now, we have the Droid invasion, or rather the Droid Vacation. First, they introduce combat droids in Publish 7 that are all CL10 or under, making them (as far as I know) completely useless to any player that has a skill box in a starting combat profession higher than level 3. Then they promise utility droids (as well as new different skins for combat droids that may or may not still be CL10 when all's said and done) and then retract the concept saying, "we can't allow Droids to enhance skills".

The Precedent is:

"Any Patch intended to fix the game will ultimately hurt the game and annoy the playerbase."

I have an LE repair droid. I have had onesince I saw them and remembered LEEBO from Shadows of the Empire. I wanted to name him E7 (if you get the full name with teh model prefix attached,good job and yes I know it's corny), but then I found out you 1. can't use numbers in a Droid's name and 2. can't name "talkies". no problem, I can always refer to him as E7, it hurts the RP factor but doesn't kill it. Then, I think it would be nice to have my LE droid do his one namesake task and Repair. But my local DE tells me "they are the only droid that CAN'T repair". So my LE, since I don't hardly craft, is a glorified insurance free item storage, like every other droid I own (I have 5 different models). the ONLY time I pull them out is so I can get crates of spices or clamps out to sell to someone. beyond that, I NEVER have them out or use them.

I won't be getting a combat droid. ever since I have heard about them, I've been upset. the game (and I mean the game... not DE's, which need any attention whatsoever and I'd never want to hurt them) doesn't need Combat droids beyond a nice probot. What the game and players do need are droids that serve a purpose by being useful (and not in the "med center in a can" or "please hold this for me Mr. Tin Man" sort of way). They need to do what they did in Star Wars. Remember Star Wars, TH and Runesabre? it's that set of movies this game is based off of. maybe you should go watch them. you'll see tons of errors between this game and the movies.

but I'm sure you're busy making changes to make this game less fun to play, so let me tell you some of the things that droids did in the movies, to save you the time of watching them:

• They maintained Harvestors


• They translated Languages


• they stored meaningful data like communications, essentially making them heralds for people


• they repaired other droids, equipment, and preformed medical tasks.


• they surveyed (spied) on the rebels on Hoth


• they helped fly ships

Here's what I remember reading about your proposed droid concepts:

• Helping Entertainers entertain (never saw this in the movies. Oh, and btw when you do away with the Hologrinding, check your metrics. I'd bet that less than 5% of all entertainers out there actually do it because they like it)


• Mouse Droids that are remote bombs (not in the movies)


• "barker" droids that shout out messages for merchants (decent idea, but probably will just annoy people to no end)

Lame, Lame and Lame. it seems that if you don't want to give players what they want, and you actually bother to post in their forums saying so, you should at least not serve up swill for them to have instead.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm fumed guys. I've been holding out hope, and each publish I lose it. I'm sorry you guys (and me, your faithful customer) lost out.