Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Answers for the list of Droid Engineer Questions.
Droid-Creator wrote:The statement that we are being "held back" because we don't want to devalue CHs again shows droids are never really going to be that great compared to pets. Anything really good they give us combat wise would devalue their favorite class, CHs.
Isn't that the truth, the CH class apparently walks on water. And it's not even hard to get MCH, take some pets and some friends and go hunt on an advanced planet and CH XP rolls in so fast it's pathetic.
Droids should be more durable than pets, imho. You can put a droid back together from scrap metal (how many times was 3PO reduced to spare parts?), but a creature cannot take an infinite beating. It's either going to have its internal organs turned into mush or stop listening to the meathead that keeps sending it off to get its butt kicked. A droid is programmed to do whatever you want it to, the Terminator in your datapad.
Everyone should have access to purchase and use all levels of droids. If this upsets someone on the team that 'oh no! with droids they'll be able to kill wolves out in the forest!', since this is obviously a game about the Pilgrims and not a highly technologically advanced civilization, then they need to actually become familiar with the genre they're working in.
Droids should follow us around, they should be donatable to bases, they should guard our houses, they should clean up stuff that I throw on the floor and store it. They should be everywhere doing everything.
One thing I wonder about is the constant worring that if Droids get too strong it will upset the balance of the game. Don't people realize that even if you put the most powerful droid there could be in the hands of a new born character that the user is actually hurting themselves?
Anyone that has ever made a new character and tried to get the help of their elite master friend to power through the leveling process will tell you that you get no where fast. The XP in this game is based on the work that YOU do after all. If your droid is doing all the work, you're going to be a novice markman for a very long time. An even better example is trying to earn faction points, sure having 3 rebel commandos to back you up is cool, but generally you're just making the process of getting FP that much harder.
The reason to have droids is times when your goal is to make money, or complete other objectives not related to XP, or perhaps when you just bite off more than you can chew. As a means of amassing wealth, the concept of spending money (buying a nice droid) to make money (being able to make much more each mission) just makes sence. In other venues like badge missions (ei: the warren) or killing for reward (ei: holocron hunting). I don't feel that a powerful droid really unbalances these objectives.
The keyargument that the Dev's have used to counter these crys is that "A player and a pet should not be able to complish tasks that 2 players can't". While I can understand the point of view, it's taken from the wrong perspective. The reason that aplayer and a pet are better off has to do with the fundamental flaws of the combat system, not because the pets are over powered. Melee characters don't have a chance to tank as well as a pet does, and a ranged character can't keep the creatures off of them well enough without the enemy being distracted. Now a number of these things might be getting addressed with the new combat rebalancing, we'll have to wait and see.
Slythetove wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
The power upgrade for Probots will be pushed out to live in the next publish. Basically, they follow pet rules. After the publish, Probots can be created to the exact same as a Level 10 Pet (keeping in line with the new pet rules. If probots were more powerful, then it would devalue the CH pets…)
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This part bothers me. Making probots the "exact same as a level 10 pet" would be a big drop down in power from where they are now by my estimations. Also, CH pets SHOULD be less valuable than droids to NON creature handlers.
I'm sorry, but it's true. People want to use droids, but when the CH pet alternative is equally (or more as it is now) viable they are reluctant to do so because of the other inherent issues with droids.
yes i agree...
Bounty Hunters need a good attack droid....(trying to do the roleplay also)
please re think this !
current probot i just bought was 59max attack??? wth is that?? that has a hard time killing a nuna =0
Er, that's not very balanced at all. Droid Engineer very much fills the Bioengineer slot, not the Creature Handler slot. They may not map directly to each other, but wanting to be like a weaponsmith who is also a commando sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Dagrin wrote:
The way I see DE becoming more balanced is to both make them a crafting class that contributes to others being more effective on their own (much more so than a CH, giving you a non-CH pet), but also nearly able to compete with a CH as a combat class. Like being a CH who is also a BE, or a weaponsmith who is also a commando, they get the greatest rewards in combat, but can also provide the near full service of their skills to some one willing to pay.
ThunderHeart,
So far I like most of what I've heard being changed and developed for Droid Engineers but I'm wondering why the class is being limited because of creature handlers? The point of being a creature handler is because you enjoy the creatures, I'm not sure why this conflicts with DEs being able to build and sell droids higher than CL10.
Creatures sold by creature handlers are not really that powerful, and aren't meant to be from what I understand. Combat Droids are meant to be powerful. I understand alot will change with the combat passes, but TH, you keep refering to creature handlers and talking about devaluing their class by allowing higher level combat droids (at least that is my understanding).
TH in his Answers for the list of Droid Engineers Questions
"Basically, they follow pet rules. After the publish, Probots can be created to the exact same as a Level 10 Pet (keeping in line with the new pet rules. If probots were more powerful, then it would devalue the CH pets…)"
I really want to know how a droid with a CL 20 would devalue creature handler pets? They can control a rancor. Masters can even control 3 pets with a max CL of 60 or 70 (can't remember what its being changed to in the creature handler pass) either way a master creature handler will be able to handle more than 3 times CL 20, and mulitple pets, while everyone else would get 1. I swear (could be wrong here) I even read a post stating that non-creature handler pets were not meant to be that powerful, in fact they're getting dropped from CL15 to CL10. What's the point of a combat droid that can barely beat a mid level thug? Creature handler pets, even CL15, would have no problem with that. I've been a CH and I don't understand how the CH handler proffession would be devalued by droids up to CL20. Pets do not decay, pets can heal, and pets, for a CH, don't require money just a little time and effort to go get.
If you're worried about everyone having a powerful droid, make combat droids difficult to make, requiring rare minerals, and have them decay with use. Similar to how powerful weapons are made rare (Combat Droids ARE weapons). Or require them to use components crafted by a weaponsmith (again they are weapons). They will end up very expensive, thus fewer running about. I'm not suggesting making combat droids anywhere near the level of a rancor, I'm just saying that DEs should be able to make combat droids that are not limited based on the apeasement of creature handlers.
The combat balance may change a lot, but the fact is Combat droids will still be at the same level as non-creature handler pets. If people are given the coice they will by a creature at the same level of a combat droid because the price will be MUCH lower. Creatures require time and thats about it. Droids require minerals and time, and their price WILL be higher if DEs are to break even. All though the combat pass will change things, as long as Droids are restricted to the CL of non-creature handler pets they will not be valuable or an attractive option to consumers.
I'm really not that unhappy about most of the changes I just thought it'd be best to make sure I expanded and explained my main complaint. Thanks for all the work TH! 
TH - Thanks very much for taking the time to respond to Sin's list. However, I'm somewhat concerned and discouraged by your answers... here's why:
Your answer to question #4:
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4.) What does mechanism rating mean for crafting stations, and is there a correlation with the rating on architect made crafting stations? If so, could you give us a hint on how it correlates?
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In short, this gives you a better chance to resist critical failures. It works like Quality Modifiers on Crafting tools.
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This answer is vague at best and doesn't take into consideration the #1 question customers ask us - "How do the ratings on your crafting stations compare to Personal Crafting Stations made by Architects?" Please give us more information so we can let our customers know where our stations stand with respect to the stations in their homes. Also... can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get crafting modules AND the rating to appear in the "Examine" window for droid deeds and in the datapad. This is extremely frustrating!
Your answer to question #20:
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20.) Can we please name droids "R2D2"? You know what I mean - the name filter .. I think Lucas Arts would ok this?
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We want to add this sort of thing, but it would be way down the list…there are lots of other important things we need to tackle first.
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This has been on our list (and a MAJOR customer request) since launch. It's important to us... and I'd love to know if the reason for the delay is that it's complicated to change quickly?
Also, I'd like to propose that the way in which tamed droids are named is altered. Wouldn't it seem more droid-like for the name to be "PROGRAMMED" like other functions? It's an electronic entity, after all. Whether DE's have to name the droid themselves... or anyone can name droids... that's not my call. Just consider having droid functionality pull away from creature functionality a little more.
TH, I keep seeing you say that Probots are getting a boost UP to CL10. My current, post-nerf Probot has 824 HAM and 40% Resistances with Meduim Armor. That blows the doors off any CL 10 creature I've seen up close, but I'm no Creature Handler. Have I just been missing thepremium critters? Or will the creature leg of the upcoming changes shift the landscape that much?
Thunderheart wrote:
The power upgrade for Probots will be pushed out to live in the next publish. Basically, they follow pet rules. After the publish, Probots can be created to the exact same as a Level 10 Pet (keeping in line with the new pet rules. If probots were more powerful, then it would devalue the CH pets…)
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I think that CH pets should be much weaker that droids and i dont think non CH people shoudl use lvl 15 and under CH pets cause the only difference between novice CH and Non Ch is the Ch gets 2 more stored and the ability to tame a creature and teach it 4 commands. If anything devalued CH pets it was the ability to use NON-CH pets. Until you get 1-1-0-0 you cant use a single pet that a NON-CH cant.You wanna know what really devalues the power of CH pets, AT-ST. awsome dmg, High HAM, Heavy armor High effectivenesses to some things.
Also what should seriosly win in a fight a couple bantha vs. a probot. Compare abilities slowrunning or quick hovering, biting metal or seriously underpowered gun, fluff or metal armor.
How would a humaniod droid fight also there are only 2 and both have like 70 HAM how does 70 ham stand up to something like a nuna or a butterfly unless it has a rocket launcher or such. I mean seriously if you could get a nuna and a protocol droid to fight the protocol droid would loose unless you put a lvl 6 armor modlue on it then maybe it would win.
And i guess its good that they increased the amount of points that DE get for experimenting since except on a couple things it does pretty much nothing, other than like crafting stations the only think i can think of is the increase of HAM on probots by about 3-6 points.
I agree with someone before that you should just change DE to a basic engineering class and give us more than just broken droids. Seriosly give us a bone here you already took anything useful so and you give people like things like Arch got player city buildingins.
Ive also wondered why can you only have one droid out. I mean in the movies they had legions of battle droids and they didnt all need one person to give orders but only to them and none of the others.
xpointmanx wrote:
What are the odds we can get languages back the way the should be? ie. allow for "higher rodian" and "higher shriwoook" spoken only by people of that race.. and only understandable by other races.. IF they have a protocol droid out? (I say "higher" because adding a new language class would be easier than changing existing levels..)
I REALLY want to see something like this implemented. As it stands now languages are very "un-starwarsy" and a bit redundant.
I think that languages should be difficult to learn. I really loved Everquests language system. For the most part it was pretty realistic. In order to learn a language, you had to take the time out to sit down with someone who spoke that language and learn it from them. You could make it so that in order to understand someone who speaks a language you don't know, you have to have a protocol droid out. Then the speach could read, for you, "John Doe says in Sriiwook(sp?)- I would like some candy." You could have two models of protocol droids. You could have a smaller droid that would only know like 3-5 extra languages (depending on what language module you put in), but is fairly inexpensive to make. Then you could have the 3PO style droids, that would understand all the languages, but is much more expensive to make. This way it creates a realistic language system, and still allows merchants to interact with all types of cliants.
(As an aside, if this system would go in, perhaps you could also have NPCs speak their native language most of the time, and only have key ones speak basic all the time.)
I like role playing a tech oriented character, so I run almost exclusively droids, the only creature in data pad is mount and it'll go when the vehicles come in.
Two suggestions;
1) Allow higher combat droids with stats equal to the higher level CH pets BUT once over CL10 the controller must equip a remote control in lieu of a weapon. (Running a MBT or a Graul should take all of your concentration). Then the player of mech or bio would have to chose between tanking or direct damageing.
2) Droids and Creatures should have an efficience of use ladder that reaches 100% only at the Master Level of Mech or Biology. So a novice (whatever) would only do 10% of the damage a Master (whatever) does JUST LIKE WITH WEAPONS. Both Pets and Drooids, in combat, are weapons after all. That would penalize the dabbler and reward the Master.
Jammer
Thunderheart wrote:
xpointmanx wrote:
Some questions:
If in the new plans.. people can only have one "pet" at a time... will this include the new combat droids?
You dont want probots stronger than a level ten pet.. because you dont want to belittle CH.. does that mean combat droids will be limited to level 10? and thereby useless...
Or.. does this mean only droid engineers can use the best combat droid?.. thereby changing it from a crafting class for those who enjoy it.. to a combat class that will become VERY common?
IF you can only have one pet out... wouldnt any combat droid of worth make lvl 10 creatures useless.?. as they should.. and will this mean EVEN MORE "tweaking" of both lines...?
What are the odds we can get languages back the way the should be? ie. allow for "higher rodian" and "higher shriwoook" spoken only by people of that race.. and only understandable by other races.. IF they have a protocol droid out? (I say "higher" because adding a new language class would be easier than changing existing levels..)
... Ive know three players who left the game.. because they hated being DE's.. and wanted to love it... Ive known others who left because they thought the "droid vs creature" issue wassystematic of the problems in the game... this really does need to be done right.. and done right on the first pass
These are important questions. I will work to get some answers.
TH, I have a general concern that is partially mirrored by this question...
Specifically, this concern invloves the non-CH one pet nerf, and how it should NOT apply to droids. PLEASE read and consider this discussion.
First, lets look at droid functions... With the exception of the probot, ALL droids have the same possible functions. All droids can take data modules, storage modules, crafting stations, med. modules, repair modules (with exception of powerdroid) etc. The probot is different from most in that it can take 2 armor modules and has decent attack capabilities. Since probots can take all the same modules that every other droid can take, and because probots have the additional bonus of attack and defense, no one has ANY reason to buy any droid other than the probot.
Second, considering droid functionality, look at what the one-per-per-non-CH does to droids... One of the main reasons everyone uses creatures as pets is that it is nice to have a little extra attack power/tanking ability when in combat (NOTE: I think a majority of players did not like the commonness of creatures because it made the game look like a zoo...this logic doesNOT apply to players having one or more droids, because droids were common in the movies. I think almost everyone that was complaining about non-CH creatures would have no problems if those creatures were simply replaced with droids). Devs are nerfing that ability by limiting everyone to ONLY one pet. This means that every player will be limited to either (1) CL10 creature, (2) a factional only, permadeath soldier, or (3) a droid.
There are only 2 possibilities for the upcoming state of the game... Either CL10 creatures will more powerful in combat, and everyone will use their CL10 creature, or probots will be more powerful and everyone will use probots in combat. This means that droid engineers will either (1) sell nothing, or (2) sell lots of probots (NOT other droids).
Why not other droids? Well, lets look at functionality again... There are 2 main areas you might use a droid: (1) in town or at your house; or (2) outside town.
Inside town, you have NO use for any droid functions...all towns have med centers (med. module), banks (item storage), and crafting modules (crafting module). All these functions are also available to probots. Additionally since most people craft with the highest quality crafting modules possible, and because those are only available for placement in your house, no one even has ANY reason to pull a droid inside town. The only possible function you could even need would be a med. module if you were in your house instead of near a hospital, and this function can be placed in a probot. No has ANY reason to buy any droid other than a probot for use inside towns.
Outside town, everyone will usedroids (now the probot)...period. Currently, most players run around with a creature AND a probot. However, I often see players running around with a creature AND an R2 (3,4,5) unit or other droid. They use the creature to attack, the droid to sit there and heal afterwards. BOTH of these scenarios will be gone after the nerf, and players will choose (1) one CL10 creature, or (2) one probot which can do every function a player could possible need in the field.
It is also worth noting that even if probots were limited to combat functions (no med modules) in the field, this would NOT change the outcome... The ONLY droid function any person might need in the field is wound healing. Almost all players will start with their creature or probot, and pitch a camp to switch pets if needed. You can heal wounds in camps...why would any player make the extra step to use a droid, when you can do everything you need to in the camp.
Now, to summarize the above...after the one-pet nerf, all DE will be selling ONLY probots, as no one has any reason to ever buy any other model of droid. The other models are not useful in the field, andare redundant offunctions already available in every town. Even if you put in 2-3 more combat droids the result is the same...people will use only combat droids, and will never buy any other model.
Based on this... the following thing needs to happen:
Droids need to be separated into combat droids and non-combat droids. The non-CH pet nerf needs to be adjusted to be: All non-CHs can call either (1) one creature, (2) one faction pet,OR (3) one COMBAT droid. Additionally, all non-CHs should be able to an extra NON-COMBAT droid, for wound healing and other functions (max of 2 droids total).
What this will accomplish will be to limit all non-CHs to ONLY ONE combat pet, but to give them a reason to buy and use non-combat droids. This also gives function for repair and power droids, because non-CHs can use them to recharge and repair their combat droid (currently not possible because all players are limited to one active droid max. NOTE: Giving multiple droids ONLY to DEs will accomplish nothing...unless other players have a reason to buy droid models other than probots, we will be limited to making them ONLY for ourselves. The ONLY way to create a market for all of our droids it to letALL players handle multiple droids (albiet NOT multiple combat droids).
As an additional perk to DEs...DEs could be allowed to use an additional combat droid...either (1) 2 combat droids and a non-combat droid (3 droids total), or (2) 1 combat droid, and one combat or non-combat droid (2 droids total), whichever is deemed more appropriate for balance.
It is not acceptable that the droid fixes will limit DEs to making the exact same droid model every single day... The non-CH pet nerf is going to KILL the DE profession REGARDLESS of whether you fix droid functionality (remember...everything you need to do in towns and in the field is already doable without droids).
Let me also add this... I think it is an insult to DEs everywhere that droids are lumped in with every other type of pet, and that CHs will be able to handle multiple droids, whereas DEs and other non-CHs cannot.
Think about this... CHs learn how to tame and control WILD creatures. How does this give CHs a better ability to handle droids with AI (artificial intelligence) who NEVER needed handlers in ANY of the movies? Additionally, CHs get to use rancors, grauls, etc....ALL super powerful creatures. Why do they need to be able to handle more droids than any other class to justify their existence? It is illogical and insulting that Devs are lumping droids in with creatures and letting CHs control more.
PLEASE consider removing droids from the non-CH pet nerf, and allowing players to control multiple droids (at least one combat and one non-combat droid). There is NOTHING more starwarsy than droids, and multiple droids should not be a problem as long as it does not inbalance combat. Having an extra non-combat droid out does not inbalance combat, and it helps the DE profession by allowing us to utilize our varying droid models.