Droid Engineer Archive

>So a novice pistoleer is a drag on the group and unwanted, but every high level combat group will clamor for a DE with a combat droid? Your arguments don't even make sense.<

How, would you, a "pure crafter" know what makes sense ? You claim to know more about it than a novice pistoleer ? What I "know" is that I have not felt appreciated by a group, with any hunting skills I have had while still trying to make my own sub components. With a cert distributed in master artisan and in DE. Droids could be up to as powerfull as CH pets, at a bit greater skillpoint cost.

What is hardest for me to understand is how you are threatened if DEs can also hunt ? ('effectively')

You cant comprehend, that crafting apples are different than combat grenades. ('oranges') You can have both!

>Why would anyone be a pure combat proffession ? <

1. More 'combat people' dont care about crafting, by far, than 'pure crafters' dont care about combat. Thats why i dont worry much about balancing pure combats with crafting apples. But, that would be ok too. BHs could make 'Han Solo' wall hangings. Commandos could make, whatever,, land mines. Whatever. Doesnt matter much because most 'pure combats' dont care as much about that stuff. (probly)

2. Pure combat professions, could and remian a tad more powerfull. I say give crafters 85% of thier skillpoints a bang for thier buck. Then they have a 'chance' to 'adventure' 'effectively'.

3. 'Role play' (some people think thats what its all about)

Why ??? do you care if anyone else is a pure combat profession or not ???

I cant help wondering if you have an alt BH or CH or somthing and are afriad the droid invasion is going to threaten your uberness.

Lastly, I cant believe that people like me who want to craft AND adventure are as rare as Jedi, in episode IV.

I read of the "Droid Invasion" long ago and didnt check into the voting threads till I heared they were making a seperate 'DH' profession. I then made a big stink pointing out DEs dont want a DH thing. I meant we want Combat droids in DE ! I think most DEs or maby would be DEs by now want to use decent combat droids. Many are probly also worried about salees to others. I think very few are actually threatened by the idea that DEs might be able to combat effectively !

I still see posts from people asking wheres the (combat droid) beef ? That have just heard the old "droid invasion" is more 'Evasion'. I and many others dont worry too much about stuff, when we expect its what we want. Hence they dont spam the polls they never heared about. They spend thier precious free time playing the game. ((untill theres not much they can do in game anymore than tend harvesters))

If you 'pure crafters' really 'phear' that all the 'PL'ing 'combats' are going to become DEs and steal your biz. Then that shows you might be a few points short of a new box, in your other conclusions as well. 'Pure combats' are not going to spend time crafting and points on merchant. (least untill the 'merchant mind tricks' are implimented) To steal your biz. They will be on Endor, or some Dungeon, Or in PvP.

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Boeda wrote:

How, would you, a "pure crafter" know what makes sense ? You claim to know more about it than a novice pistoleer ? What I "know" is that I have not felt appreciated by a group, with any hunting skills I have had while still trying to make my own sub components. With a cert distributed in master artisan and in DE. Droids could be up to as powerfull as CH pets, at a bit greater skillpoint cost.

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I have a Pistoleer/Ranger on another server. Don't make assumptions, it just makes you look foolish. I know about combat and crafting. Maybe you just weren't appreciated by a group because you really suck at combat. I guess I see why you're clamoring for an uber-droid, it's the only way you'll ever be worth anything in combat.

And again, you're focusing on DE getting combat droids. What makes DEs special that they get combat ability above and beyond what a chef or armorsmith gets?

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What is hardest for me to understand is how you are threatened if DEs can also hunt ? ('effectively')

You cant comprehend, that crafting apples are different than combat grenades. ('oranges') You can have both!

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Obviously the developers disagree. They didn't give us the option of DE controlling CL60 droids. They gave us the option of a droid commander profession with combat prerequisites or more utility droids to sell. I'd say they're in a better position than either you or I to determine the balance of the game. It just so happens that they agree with me.

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Thats why i dont worry much about balancing pure combats with crafting apples. But, that would be ok too. BHs could make 'Han Solo' wall hangings. Commandos could make, whatever,, land mines. Whatever. Doesnt matter much because most 'pure combats' dont care as much about that stuff. (probly)

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You're right, they probably don't care about crafting. If they did, they'd pick up a crafting profession. Just like if you cared about combat, you'd pick up a Master elite combat profession. Do you realize that you can master artisan and DE, and still have enough points to MASTER rifleman, carbineer, pistoleer, TK, fencer, swordsman or pikeman? Imagine, you can be a crafter AND a combat character. Exactly what you're asking for, and it doesn't involve giving DEs uber-droids.

Oh, but I forgot, you also want to be a scout so you can make camps, a medic so you can heal wounds, and an entertainer so you can heal BF, and be a merchant so you can keep selling things while you're out killing things with your uber-droid.You want to be everything. Face facts, you'll never get to have your one character do everything. If you can't get over that fact, go play Quake. Everyone there gets to be a part of the fight, and everybody can use every weapon. It's your dream game.

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2. Pure combat professions, could and remian a tad more powerfull. I say give crafters 85% of thier skillpoints a bang for thier buck. Then they have a 'chance' to 'adventure' 'effectively'.

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Crafters can adventure effectively. All they have to do is pick up a master elite combat profession.

3. 'Role play' (some people think thats what its all about)

Why ??? do you care if anyone else is a pure combat profession or not ???

I cant help wondering if you have an alt BH or CH or somthing and are afriad the droid invasion is going to threaten your uberness.

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I'd expect an ad hominem attack from somebody as foolish as you.

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Lastly, I cant believe that people like me who want to craft AND adventure are as rare as Jedi, in episode IV.

I read of the "Droid Invasion" long ago and didnt check into the voting threads till I heared they were making a seperate 'DH' profession. I then made a big stink pointing out DEs dont want a DH thing. I meant we want Combat droids in DE ! I think most DEs or maby would be DEs by now want to use decent combat droids. Many are probly also worried about salees to others. I think very few are actually threatened by the idea that DEs might be able to combat effectively !

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Who's this "we"? Seems that most people here DO NOT want high level combat droids in DE. You'll have to look elsewhere to have your pathetic little pity party.

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Boeda wrote:

>I have a Pistoleer/Ranger on another server. Don't make assumptions, it just makes you look foolish. I know about combat and crafting. <

Ah, But I did assume you probly did have some uber combat some where that was being 'threatened' I thought it would be in an alt account. I wanted to see it in print tho. Not such a 'pure' crafter are you ? You ?, need to 'adventure' ?

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Pistoleer/Ranger is hardly a high level combat character. Pistoleer is weak and ranger is support only, it adds nothing to combat unless you think traps that don't do much to creatures and do nothing to NPCs are a great boon to combat.

Also, it's not an alt account you fool, it's ANOTHER SERVER. My crafter is a pure crafter. He doesn't go anywhere. He rarely leaves Tatooine. Even on Tatooine he rarely ventures outside his shop except to check his harvesters.

I myself am not a pure crafter. My character is. Do you have a problem drawing a distinction between yourself and your character? Perhaps you need a psych eval?

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Now tell me you wouldnt like to be able to buy your Pistol guy some armor with your architects fortune. Two char slots /server would satisfy me. But it aint the case. So, I ask for the ability to do two things with one char.

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There's a very good reason that there's only one character per server, and it's to prevent everyone from simply creating a crafting mule.

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>Maybe you just weren't appreciated by a group because you really suck at combat. I guess I see why you're clamoring for an uber-droid, it's the only way you'll ever be worth anything in combat.<

Well we'll never know, unless i get a few 'checkers' to play with.

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Why do you need more checkers? If you want to adventure, start another character on another server. You can have 10 characters you know.

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>And again, you're focusing on DE getting combat droids. What makes DEs special that they get combat ability above and beyond what a chef or armorsmith gets?<

The only difference is that this is "Droid Invasion!". If I was chef or AS, and it was 'Big Time Bake Off' or 'Armor Armada'. I'd be arguing for some balance for them as well. Or entertainers, or BEs.

My plan for droid cert

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=59251&page=1

Would in fact give AS's, chefs, and crafters in general (except BEs) an edge on the droid certs. But they would still need somthing else for balance. And entertainers and BEs would still need as much as they ever did. But,, for the "Droid Invasion" I suggest concentrating on DEs and Droids.

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Boeda wrote:

How, would you, a "pure crafter" know what makes sense ? You claim to know more about it than a novice pistoleer ? What I "know" is that I have not felt appreciated by a group, with any hunting skills I have had while still trying to make my own sub components.

You're looking at this from a very limited scope. A "pure crafter" in terms of droid engineer may have master rifleman as well. It is not a character that is completely one thing or another, it is the professions. A combat profession is pure combat, a crafting profession is pure crafting, if you want some combination of both then pick up some of both.

With a cert distributed in master artisan and in DE. Droids could be up to as powerfull as CH pets, at a bit greater skillpoint cost.

uhhh, how is 0 skillpoints more than 107. Last time I checked you got Artisan and DE skills and abilites for the skillpoints you spent on the professions.

What is hardest for me to understand is how you are threatened if DEs can also hunt ? ('effectively')

Because of the way the game is set up. The core foundation of this game rests on the fact that crafting skills carry just as much "weight" as combat skills. If you give DE's combat skills without a skill point increase (you cannot change the pre-reqs ofa profession, so more skillpoints is out) then you must take away some of their crafting abilities. You can choose to like it or not, but its the the foundation of the game. Its too late to change that now.

You cant comprehend, that crafting apples are different than combat grenades. ('oranges') You can have both!

They are different, but they are both weighted equally in terms of game balance. Combat types depend on crafters for equipment, crafters depend on combat types for income. Its a symbiotic relationship, each side benefits equally. You choose whichever side fits you best (or both if you want, there are enough skillpoints).

1. More 'combat people' dont care about crafting, by far, than 'pure crafters' dont care about combat. Thats why i dont worry much about balancing pure combats with crafting apples. But, that would be ok too. BHs could make 'Han Solo' wall hangings. Commandos could make, whatever,, land mines. Whatever. Doesnt matter much because most 'pure combats' dont care as much about that stuff. (probly)

Last time I checked I've only seen 2, maybe 3 crafters that want free combat skills. The majority of us will take up a combat profession IF we want combat skills.

2. Pure combat professions, could and remian a tad more powerfull. I say give crafters 85% of thier skillpoints a bang for thier buck. Then they have a 'chance' to 'adventure' 'effectively'.

So what you're saying is that skillpoints spent in a combat profession only give you 54% of their value? You have to look at marginal cost here. A crafter spends 100 skill points and gets 100 skill points worth of crafting abilities and 85 skill points worth of combat abilities. A combat character spends 100 skill points and gets 100 skill points of combat abilities, 54% of the total abilities that a crafter gets.

Lastly, I cant believe that people like me who want to craft AND adventure are as rare as Jedi, in episode IV.

Its not that they're rare, its just that most people have the common sense to realize if they want to craft and do combat they can pick up both professions. If you are bound and determined that you have to have more than one character on a server then go join TC, you get 3 characters to do with as you please.

I read of the "Droid Invasion" long ago and didnt check into the voting threads till I heared they were making a seperate 'DH' profession. I then made a big stink pointing out DEs dont want a DH thing. I meant we want Combat droids in DE ! I think most DEs or maby would be DEs by now want to use decent combat droids. Many are probly also worried about salees to others. I think very few are actually threatened by the idea that DEs might be able to combat effectively !

I think most people who want combat pets took up creature handler. I think most DE's enjoy crafting droids. All of the posts in this forum seem to agree with me, as well as the majority ofthe posts on TH's in development post. The only thing we are threatened by with you're proposals is the fact that the crafting portion of any hybrid profession is gimped. Look at smuggler, their crafting is pathetic.

I still see posts from people asking wheres the (combat droid) beef ? That have just heard the old "droid invasion" is more 'Evasion'. I and many others dont worry too much about stuff, when we expect its what we want. Hence they dont spam the polls they never heared about. They spend thier precious free time playing the game. ((untill theres not much they can do in game anymore than tend harvesters))

There are still only 2 of you arguing for a hybrid profession... I'm just wondering who this "we" is that you keep talking about.

If you 'pure crafters' really 'phear' that all the 'PL'ing 'combats' are going to become DEs and steal your biz. Then that shows you might be a few points short of a new box, in your other conclusions as well. 'Pure combats' are not going to spend time crafting and points on merchant. (least untill the 'merchant mind tricks' are implimented) To steal your biz. They will be on Endor, or some Dungeon, Or in PvP.

You still don't get it.... this has nothing to do with business, this has nothing to do with an influx of new droid engineers, this has to do with game balance and the future direction of the profession. This is not a conspiracy, people are not trying to make life terrible for other people, we are just trying to get the profession moving in what we feel is a positive direction within the confines of the game system. This seems to be the part that you just aren't getting. You can't change the game to suit you're will, there are thousands of people playing the game every day that enjoy the current system, and there are people looking forward to all the future publishes. A change of the magnatude you keep suggesting would probably take somewhere around a years worth of development time, in which absolutely nothing would get done for anyone (and the space expansion would probably be pushed back at least another 6 months).

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Is it really so hard for you to understand? We are Master Droid Engineers and we want to be and should be the masters of the droid world. We want to be able to build our creations and control our creations. It is not just about combat. If that were the case we would all be BH's or Commandos or something like that.

We simply want to control what we create better than anyone else, and we want to create significant combat droids that we were promised. Which was the direction we were headed before the change in correspondants.

I don't care about the other artisan professions, thats their problem. I want DE to have a major roll in SWG and not just the monkey behind the mechanics.

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phamcar wrote:

Is it really so hard for you to understand? We are Master Droid Engineers and we want to be and should be the masters of the droid world. We want to be able to build our creations and control our creations. It is not just about combat. If that were the case we would all be BH's or Commandos or something like that.

We simply want to control what we create better than anyone else, and we want to create significant combat droids that we were promised. Which was the direction we were headed before the change in correspondants.

I don't care about the other artisan professions, thats their problem. I want DE to have a major roll in SWG and not just the monkey behind the mechanics.

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Jenden wrote: (snipped to one point)

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Boeda wrote:

Lastly, I cant believe that people like me who want to craft AND adventure are as rare as Jedi, in episode IV.

Its not that they're rare, its just that most people have the common sense to realize if they want to craft and do combat they can pick up both professions. If you are bound and determined that you have to have more than one character on a server then go join TC, you get 3 characters to do with as you please.

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Jenden, you are not looking forward enough to see the problem.

Sure, you can dabble in both combat and crafting, but you will never be very good at either.But eventually, your friends and the content you want to see will get out of the range of such a gimped character. You can buy another account, or talk your friends into joining you on another server, but that character is basicly dead.

Mastering that one elite won't put you in the same league as a Commando+? , Bounty Hunter+?, Master TKA/Rifleman or other really high end combattemplates. And you have gimped yourself as a crafter too, with components you need but can't make in some of your productsand in a limited repertiore.

I think Boberfett made my point when he said "My crafter is a pure crafter. He doesn't go anywhere. He rarely leaves Tatooine. Even on Tatooine he rarely ventures outside his shop except to check his harvesters." That doesn't sound like a very lively character, but that is about all he can do if all his skillpoints are in crafting professions that offer no combat capability. No wonder he has an alt on another server, it must get lonely sometimes. I'll bet it gets more play hours.

With the droids comming in, we have the opportunity to make crafting characters fully functional as mature characters. Right now they are not, and once all their skillpoints get spent they are doomed to become boring.