Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Am I, the Only One, that still Wants Combat Droids ?
Haruspex77 wrote:
Jenden, you are not looking forward enough to see the problem.
Sure, you can dabble in both combat and crafting, but you will never be very good at either.But eventually, your friends and the content you want to see will get out of the range of such a gimped character. You can buy another account, or talk your friends into joining you on another server, but that character is basicly dead.
Mastering that one elite won't put you in the same league as a Commando+? , Bounty Hunter+?, Master TKA/Rifleman or other really high end combattemplates.
Have you seen any of the changes that are happening? Templates are pretty much gone with publish 7, a master rifleman/TKA may have more diversity, but they will be no better than someone who is one or the other. Commando and Bounty hunter have devoted the vast majority of their skills to combat, they should be much more powerful than someone who still has skillpoints to get other professions.
And you have gimped yourself as a crafter too, with components you need but can't make in some of your productsand in a limited repertiore.
You're only as gimped as you think you are. I am a master DE, with little other artisan skills and no merchant skills, I'm also probably the most successful droid engineer on Tarquinas. Am I gimped? No.
I think Boberfett made my point when he said "My crafter is a pure crafter. He doesn't go anywhere. He rarely leaves Tatooine. Even on Tatooine he rarely ventures outside his shop except to check his harvesters." That doesn't sound like a very lively character, but that is about all he can do if all his skillpoints are in crafting professions that offer no combat capability. No wonder he has an alt on another server, it must get lonely sometimes. I'll bet it gets more play hours.
You have to use the system to create the character which best fits you. You cannot change the system to best suit what you want. If you want a pure crafter who never relies on anyone else and can make a variety of things, then you pay the price in a lack of combat abilities. If you want a pure combat character who can kick some ass, you pay the price of no crafting skills.
With the droids comming in, we have the opportunity to make crafting characters fully functional as mature characters. Right now they are not, and once all their skillpoints get spent they are doomed to become boring.
If you think you're character is boring then change him up, nothings stopping you from dropping whatever youfindboring for what you findfun. If something is boring for you then its time to drop it,no reason not to. This is a game, the wholepoint is to have fun. If you don't have fun crafting, don't craft. BUT, you cannot use 'fun' as an excuse to change the foundations of the gameto meet your personal wishes.
Jenden wrote:
Haruspex77 wrote:
Jenden, you are not looking forward enough to see the problem.
Sure, you can dabble in both combat and crafting, but you will never be very good at either.But eventually, your friends and the content you want to see will get out of the range of such a gimped character. You can buy another account, or talk your friends into joining you on another server, but that character is basicly dead.
Mastering that one elite won't put you in the same league as a Commando+? , Bounty Hunter+?, Master TKA/Rifleman or other really high end combattemplates.
Have you seen any of the changes that are happening? Templates are pretty much gone with publish 7, a master rifleman/TKA may have more diversity, but they will be no better than someone who is one or the other. Commando and Bounty hunter have devoted the vast majority of their skills to combat, they should be much more powerful than someone who still has skillpoints to get other professions.
(snip)
If you think you're character is boring then change him up, nothings stopping you from dropping whatever youfindboring for what you findfun. If something is boring for you then its time to drop it,no reason not to. This is a game, the wholepoint is to have fun. If you don't have fun crafting, don't craft. BUT, you cannot use 'fun' as an excuse to change the foundations of the gameto meet your personal wishes.
Indeed 'fun' is the only reason to spend time here on the forums discussing what changes will be made to the game. The game will change, and I would like it to become even more fun than it is now, presumably so would you. The only question is what the changes will be, and who will be most satisfied with them. I think that, in the long run, you too will be more satisfied by my suggestions.
I still see you not looking forward at your future fun, but insteadlooking only at where you are now and how you got there. Sure you can change a character's skills completely, but that is really the same as declaring the character dead and starting another.
I disagree that templates are going away, though they are eliminating some abuses that limited the diversity of high end characters. The Master TKA/Riflemanuses more skillpoints than the Bounty Hunter and is appropriately comparable, both will always be stronger than a newbie with only a single combat mastery. But if you have your way, that newbie will be as strong in combat as any Master crafter.
A template simply means a combination of skills and equipmentthat works well for a high end character. If I understand their direction, the devs are trying to offer as wide a choice as possible in templates that work, while not creating overpowered combinations that defeat the highest content solo. It is important that a good sized group be needed to do some things and go some places or a Player Association eventuallyhas nothing to do.
My issue is with requiring that crafting characters have to be left behind when the group goes out to hunt. Right now, any character that is going to participate can't be much of a crafter. Why not? Perhaps to sell extra accounts, since a good crafter is too valuable to just be deleted, but that isn't a reason I can support.
Haruspex77 wrote:
My issue is with requiring that crafting characters have to be left behind when the group goes out to hunt. Right now, any character that is going to participate can't be much of a crafter. Why not? Perhaps to sell extra accounts, since a good crafter is too valuable to just be deleted, but that isn't a reason I can support.
I still don't see your point to all this and you keep evading the main question. Why don't you just keep MDE, MA and take up a master level elite combat profession ?? What skill are you trying to avoid giving up to get there ?
You can be a Master crafter AND a master combat class ?? What are you not understanding ?
Gribnitz wrote:
Haruspex77 wrote:
My issue is with requiring that crafting characters have to be left behind when the group goes out to hunt. Right now, any character that is going to participate can't be much of a crafter. Why not? Perhaps to sell extra accounts, since a good crafter is too valuable to just be deleted, but that isn't a reason I can support.
I still don't see your point to all this and you keep evading the main question. Why don't you just keep MDE, MA and take up a master level elite combat profession ?? What skill are you trying to avoid giving up to get there ?
You can be a Master crafter AND a master combat class ?? What are you not understanding ?
Didn't read it all did you; a one note crafter isn't much of one, and one combat class mastery isn'tmuch of a threat.
Can you be a financial success with only one crafting mastery? Sure you can, but you can also do that with none at all by just running harvesters and selling resources.
Can you be a combat success with only one combat mastery? No. You will be wiped every time in a duel or PvP by somebody who has maxed out some useful combination of skills. Depending on what you choose, and what your friends professions are, youarenot likely to bewelcome on a high level hunt or PvP expedition. (The exception being if you fill a missing role.)
There are 250 skill points, and spendin 1/3 of them on combat leaves you a mid level combat character, not a decent one.None of the skillpoints you spend on crafting does anything to help thegroup on an expedition, unlike Medic based or Scout based skills. Even entertainers can heal mind wounds in a camp and have some value in the field.
Do you like being invited along out of pity, instead of because of your value? Thats what's happening, though your friends won't tell you that.
Haruspex77 wrote:
Didn't read it all did you; a one note crafter isn't much of one, and one combat class mastery isn'tmuch of a threat.
Yes, I read it all. I just wanted to be sure I understood what you were trying to say. So, your point is there isn't enough skill points to master 2 elite crafting skills and 2 elite combat professions, soDE should get a super droid tolevel the playing field?
First off, mastering 2 elite combat profession allowing you to stack defenses and bleeds are BUGS and going away. That was not supposed to be a feature of the game, but a bug.
Second, why in the heck should you be allowed to master 2 master crafting professions to be a "good" crafter and STILL be a super combat toon? You are making no sense whatsoever.
How anyone can read this thread and understand how you are correct is beyond me. Sorry, I give up. This is a hopeless discussion and a pipe dream to boot.
BoberFett wrote:
StarRider99 wrote:
TOTALLY disagree with this post - how can flesh and bome ever compete with micro-fusion reactors and weapons that pump out gigawatts of power. I'm sorry but I like a LITTLE science with my science fiction. There was never a creature in the SW universe that couldnt be taken down by more than a couple of pistol shots, never mind high powered or crew served weaponry.
Its quite simple - the weapons of sentient beings capable of controlling the laws of physics can and should out-gun any natural critter. Some of the largest SW critters seen were simply beasts of burden for shield generators. *shakes head* There are other ways to take care of the CHs - limiting Droid functionality in certain terain types might be one of them for example.
I believe, however, that fighting machines (or their crew-served counterparts...true 'tanks') should always be superior to creatures. Teeth and claws cant and wont penetrate armor on anything but the lightest vehicle. PLEASE!!! Some science with the fiction and not just a totally artificial and unrealistic approach to the game!!!
Everette Fireborn
Master DE, Tarq.
Not really.
Have you ever fought a dog before? I have. It wasn't even all that big. About 100lbs. My girlfriend got between our two dogs and one of them, a pit bull/great dane mix,was chewing on her arm. I was beating the living @#$% out of it. I'm not a small guy, 6', 200lbs, fairlyathletic build, and I was hitting this dog in the chest and head. It all but ignored me. It wasn't until I got an arm around it's neck and started choking the hell out of it that it let go. You'd be surprised how tough a large, muscular animal is.
Now look at some of those CH pets. I bet those big cats could do some serious damage. Even if their claws don't go through armor, you better believe you're going to be knocked to the ground and mauled to death. Heck, look what that tiger did to Roy.
As for droids, I always got the feeling throughout all the SW movies was that droids were rather fragile. Even the combat droids, once you got through their shields they seemed to go down rather quickly. But that was just my impression.
Here is my two cents. In many ways I agree with StarRider99 in principle. Let's face it. Technology wins. If it didn't, modern militaries would consist of lion-tamers and cavalry instead of tanks and planes. BoberFett's incident with the dog is a special situation involving an unarmed, untrained (I assume) person against a naturally well-armed and instinctively agressive animal. For these reasons, I don't think creatures and creature handlers should rightly be the supreme force on the battlefield, as someone in a earlier post on this thread stated. I don't think it makes sense in real life,OR within the confines of the SW universe.
If you look at the first movies (episodes 4-6), technology is in command. Creatures and animals are relegated to mounts (dewbacks, banthas, etc.), monsters (that thing that attacks Luke on Hoth), and occasionally as entertainment/execution device(Jabba's Rancor). And my impression was that the Rancor that Jabba had was really rare. Why else would he have one right underneath his court? It wasa status symbol, something to amuse visitors to his court and make him look like a big shot. If lots of people had Rancor's (like on SWG) I doubt Jabba would have been as angry when Luke killed it. So I have always felt it was a special pet for an especially powerful person/slug. If creatures were supreme, you would haveseen a Galactic CH Corps of theEmpire commanding squads of rancors. On the contrary, the Empire uses AT-ST's and AT-AT's (the first of which is bipedal BTW).
At the same time I understand BoberFett's points about the bipedal droids and the apparent fragility of droids in general in the first movies. I agree. Also full-on combat droids would not make sense during the time we are talking about.
I know it's been said before, but the dev's dropped the ball when they allowed CH's to be as powerful as they are. It has thrown everything out of whack as far as the Star Wars feel. It also set an umreasonably high standard for the expectations of all other combat oriented professions. I am for anythingthat nerfs the strength and combat abilities of pets, even more than they already have been. What they have done is not enough. I am glad that there are Rancors and Kimogila's in the game, and that they are very strong and hard to kill. I'm even glad that Master CH's can tame them and keep them as pets. I just think they should have been much more difficult to find and keep and tame and train. Owning a well-trained rancor should be almost as difficult as becoming a Jedi. IMHO, you should say "WOW!" when you see someone who owns a rancor, like I do when I see a Jedi. Right now you just say "Okay whose Rancor is standing on my speeder?"
But since the CH problems are water under the bridge, and extra nerfing will probably never happen, then it becomes a game of maintaining balance.I feelone of the most important things that makes Star Wars unique is the BLEND of technology and biology: all the beasts, and aliens, and monsters, right there along with the droids, light sabres, and tie-fighters. It's a potent and enjoyable mix of the two.
So since they have already made pets and creatures so disgustingly over-powered, and if they are not willing to limit them more than they already are, then I think the technology needs to be brought up to par to maintain balance. If this means Combat Droids, then so be it. I'm for anything that puts more of the tech-feel into SWG. I want more droids, blasters, combat vehicles, droids, hologram messages, grounded space fighters, droids, etc. I think adding combat capabilities to droids that allow them to be as good a some higher level CH creatures would not be unbalancing, but would on the contrary, help bring balance to an already grossly unbalanced system. Maybe they aren't full-on "Combat Droids", but they should be able to be stronger than level 10. I personally think it would be easier and more in line with the SW universe if they just fixed Creatures and Pets, but that isn't going to happen.
Anyway...there's my rant. Make of it what you will.
Burning_Tyger wrote:
So since they have already made pets and creatures so disgustingly over-powered, and if they are not willing to limit them more than they already are, then I think the technology needs to be brought up to par to maintain balance. If this means Combat Droids, then so be it. I'm for anything that puts more of the tech-feel into SWG. I want more droids, blasters, combat vehicles, droids, hologram messages, grounded space fighters, droids, etc. I think adding combat capabilities to droids that allow them to be as good a some higher level CH creatures would not be unbalancing, but would on the contrary, help bring balance to an already grossly unbalanced system. Maybe they aren't full-on "Combat Droids", but they should be able to be stronger than level 10. I personally think it would be easier and more in line with the SW universe if they just fixed Creatures and Pets, but that isn't going to happen.
Anyway...there's my rant. Make of it what you will.
Most intelligent post on this thread I have seen. I agree, but the problem comes into the implementation of those droids. How do they do it? We proposed certs and they shot it down. The only other waywithout radically changing the droid engineer profession is that DH profession that everyone loves to hate.
The DEV's are not going to change the Droid Engineer profession into what is proposedin this threadbecause it would completely change what DE has been in the past. DE's would have to give things up in order to gain combat droids of significant function. Most don't want that.
What is left? I can only think of that DH profession. No one likes the idea because it sounds like a mechanical CH. How do they make it different the CHclass and keep DE viable ?
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
Queue: the Kollos diatribe.
Message Edited by Kollos on 02-28-2004 10:38 AM
I could go for Imare's proposal. Yep I think I really could. I particularly like the idea of the SP cost being variable in different professions (if the Devs wanted to do that for some balance related reason)
As to a mini profession, I dont like that one so much, it's a little too much like DC/DH
Well.. In my Opinion.. I really think that the Devs/Csr/Lucas/SOE really really didn't thought out the process of droids in a game like this.. remember this is done by the people who did EQ.. yes EQ the game with Pets.. Hey this game has pets too.. controlled by CH's.. but Wait.. here comes those droids.. ohh my what shall we do with them.. there lies the problem.. I think that if we did not have pets (like really i dont recall seeing everyone in the movies having a pet)..then the Droid problem will be, well there would be no droid problem.. but trying to mix pets and droids is a very hard thing. I myself am took M DE for the crafting aspects of it.. yes it is not what i thought it will be.. but i still find small uses here and there.. make creds and still stick with the class/skills. I was against and still am about the DH class/skills. There is simply no real way to have a so called balance.. for if eveything was balanced.. then why play differ classes/skills if they all are the same/do the same.. Hmm I would like to have a Snickers or a Milky Way bar? choice is there.. but iof they both are balanced aka the same.. then why choose for it dosent matter you end up with the same thing.
I say let each skill/class have their perks/flaws and go from there.. since there will never be a end to fleshing out the DE class/skills.
Ok double posting from another thread..but I dont care anymore 
Gribnitz wrote:
First off, mastering 2 elite combat profession allowing you to stack defenses and bleeds are BUGS and going away. That was not supposed to be a feature of the game, but a bug.
Second, why in the heck should you be allowed to master 2 master crafting professions to be a "good" crafter and STILL be a super combat toon? You are making no sense whatsoever.