Droid Engineer Archive

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Tal-N wrote:

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Out of curiosity.... what is the type of attack ofa Probot's "laser bolt"? Is it Energy? Heat? I might remind all here who are testing that, whatever the type of damage a Probot does, the CL10 pet should have it's resist high in that category.

Most CL10 creature pets I know of have kinetic resists only.

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The majority of CL10 pets do NOT have kinetic protection, they pretty much have none now. Again use www.swgcreatures.com to check the stats and resistances for the animals listed here. I did include what their energy resistance was in the post. Energy and Kinetic protection isn't that common at a lower level simply because those are very common damage types and drastically increase the CL rating of the animals compared to lesser types such as acid or cold damage. Even if I am mistaken and it causes heat damage it wouldn't matter as the majority of the animals under CL20 have very few resistances anyway.

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What I am saying is this: The entire premise of your post is that Probots are more "overpowered" than CL10 creatures.For sake of this discussion, Iwould totally ignore wild pets because, as most CH's will tell you, wild pets are mostly inferior to BE made pets at any creature level (with the exception of the super rare tameables).

Therefore, this discussion should revolve around BE made CL10 pets with resists **specifically** in the category of energy, as we're pitting Probots against BE CL10 pets.

That will yield the most "equal" footing of comparing these apples to oranges. Then, we need to have quite a large number of battles between these Probots and these BE made pets with resists in Energy.

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Tal-N wrote:
Look at the other pics I posted on this page, this is why it pays to read the whole topic. I'll cave you some time and link you to the pic which shows that this was done on Ahazi.

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If you look at wild CL10 mobs of any kind, humanoid or animal they have bearly any resists at all and less than 1500 points of HAM.

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Tal-N wrote:

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I have to disagree with you here. I have two CL10 pets on my two toons on Corbantis: One is a CL10 Bantha with around 3k, 1.5k, .8k HAM and 6% kinetic resists, the other is some type of cat with 2.1k, 1.8k, and .8k HAM and 22% kinetic resists. The HAM totals are close, but I'm drawing off memory while at work. The resists, however, are completely accurate.

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Those are bio-engineered, not wild. Bio-engineered CL10 pets actually have stats equal to animals several CL ratings higher which are found in the wild. This is because bio-pet needed to be viable to sell compared to wild ones which are tamed. So what you have there is actually able to defeat a wild CL15 animal with a better than 50/50 success rate because of how the bio-engineer tipped additional points from the mind pools into the health and focussed on breeding in kinetic protection to give it that extra edge in PvE.

If you look at wild CL10 mobs of any kind, humanoid or animal they have bearly any resists at all and less than 1500 points of HAM.

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That will yield the most "equal" footing of comparing these apples to oranges. Then, we need to have quite a large number of battles between these Probots and these BE made pets with resists in Energy.

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That is an unfair test since pets aren't not always used against each other plus the fact is that pets that are designed will do better or worse based on what they're designed for. The only true test for CL ratings is against wild mobs for two reasons... firstly they are designed by the devs so they are perfectly fair, secondly they are not engineered to tip the scales towards certain types of protection or combat. For example, a bio-engineer will tell you that the higher resists and the less vulnerabilities a clone has will raise the CL very high because of how tough they are overall. If they have vulnerabilities or lean towards certain types of protection then the CL is lowered. This is also why you will see in the wild you have CL55 mobs which have light armor and low resistances although they are fully protected equally to everything. Thats because overall toughness greatly effects a CL rating. Droids are like this, while they can only suffer a single damage type per hit they would gain a higher CL due to how well rounded they are. You would need well rounded pets vs droids to make a fair judgement on if the pets are indeed weaker.

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now you really aren't making any sense. you are saying the probot is ranked improperly because it can beat a wild CL10 creature handily and at the same time saying a CL10 bio-engineered pet is ranked properly even though it can beat a will CL15 creature.

thats irrational. taking the best "CL10" combat droid a DE can make and comparing it to anything less than the best "CL10" pet that a BE can engineer is silly; at least if you are trying to do a fair comparison.

Then this new system came in, the designer ensured that bio-engineered animals actually had stats equal to ones several ratings higher than it said. Essentially this allowed us to make a direct copy of a wild animal however while it's stats were the same it would have a slightly lower CL rating. We could copy a Rancor for example which would normally be CL50, but the way the cloning was designed meant it said CL45. This makes the clones VERY desirable since you have all the power of a CL50 wild animal with a rating of CL45. This continues throughout the clones all the way down to CL10. Essentially now a non-ch pet which is CL10 has the stats of a CL15 animal by the way the devs designed the system.

That is why I'm saying that the current probots on live which are capable of soloing CL15-16 mobs by themselves are perfectly balanced. Just like the clones they read as CL10 but are actually CL15, that allows droids to compete fairly with non-ch clone pets as they are both within the same limitations. The problem lies in that the new stats posted will make the probot equal to around CL20, something that the devs have no only said is overpowered but also pushes CHs and BEs out of the market for non-ch pets. Ok, so you can call two at once and it's yet to be seen if buffs can make a significant difference but essentially my main concern is that the devs have made lot of fuss over keep the power of our clones down. So if they don't do something about the intended probot enhancement it makes them hypocritical of claiming our clones were overpowered, if they do change something then you guys have to be on the tail end of a nerf which will piss you right off and you'll tell them they should have realised it was overpowered before it went live.

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Tal-N wrote:

That is why I'm saying that the current probots on live which are capable of soloing CL15-16 mobs by themselves are perfectly balanced.

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Tal-N wrote:

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I have to disagree with you here. I have two CL10 pets on my two toons on Corbantis: One is a CL10 Bantha with around 3k, 1.5k, .8k HAM and 6% kinetic resists, the other is some type of cat with 2.1k, 1.8k, and .8k HAM and 22% kinetic resists. The HAM totals are close, but I'm drawing off memory while at work. The resists, however, are completely accurate.

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Those are bio-engineered, not wild. Bio-engineered CL10 pets actually have stats equal to animals several CL ratings higher which are found in the wild. This is because bio-pet needed to be viable to sell compared to wild ones which are tamed. So what you have there is actually able to defeat a wild CL15 animal with a better than 50/50 success rate because of how the bio-engineer tipped additional points from the mind pools into the health and focussed on breeding in kinetic protection to give it that extra edge in PvE.

If you look at wild CL10 mobs of any kind, humanoid or animal they have bearly any resists at all and less than 1500 points of HAM.

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By adding this qualifier, you've completely invalidated much of what this entire thread was about. Here's your original post from the very beginning of this discussion, just to provide a reference:

"I figured I'd get the ball rolling here by pointing out that research using these current probots has shown they are severely overpowered when they are supposed to be CL10. The topic was started here by someone who threw an invalid and overpowered non-ch pet against a probot only to find that it was totally and utterly destroyed by the droid."

At first I was disputing the issue but NancyJ is very much correct, these probots need to be nerf'd or non-ch pets need to be allowed much more power than they currently have, that however would meana general rising of the power across the board for mobs as well. But on a more realistic note if they considered the old CL10 pets with 9k/7k/6k of HAM invalid and inbalanced then what will they think about probots which are technically able to susstain over 5000 points of damage to a single pool! Those kinds of stats are actually typical of a CL20 mob not a CL10 one. I'll just paste the nice bit of math NancyJ did as well as what I worked out as well.

Nowhere was "Probots are wildly overpoweredcompared to wild CL10 pets" ever stated, you specifically said "CL10"... and CL10 means CL10, BEmade or wild.

Now, in essence, are you also saying that CL10 BE pets are "overpowered" because they are not equal to wild CL10 pets?

You have people who are adding their thoughts to this discussion because, like me, you're saying that CL 10 Probots are "overpowered" when compared to CL10 BE made pets, on which I completely disagree.

Yes, CL10 Probots and CL10 BE made pets **are** stronger than any wild CL10 that can be found, and that's because they're player made, refined, require a lot of work to make. See below.

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That will yield the most "equal" footing of comparing these apples to oranges. Then, we need to have quite a large number of battles between these Probots and these BE made pets with resists in Energy.

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That is an unfair test since pets aren't not always used against each other plus the fact is that pets that are designed will do better or worse based on what they're designed for. The only true test for CL ratings is against wild mobs for two reasons... firstly they are designed by the devs so they are perfectly fair,

I disagree... I belive that CL10 player made droids and CL10 player made BE pets are supposed to be better than anything in the wild or "found" in the game.There is serious precedence for this as well, ask any Weaponsmith if weapon drops (not schematics) are better than the weapons he can make.

secondly they are not engineered to tip the scales towards certain types of protection or combat. For example, a bio-engineer will tell you that the higher resists and the less vulnerabilities a clone has will raise the CL very high because of how tough they are overall. If they have vulnerabilities or lean towards certain types of protection then the CL is lowered. This is also why you will see in the wild you have CL55 mobs which have light armor and low resistances although they are fully protected equally to everything. Thats because overall toughness greatly effects a CL rating. Droids are like this, while they can only suffer a single damage type per hit they would gain a higher CL due to how well rounded they are. You would need well rounded pets vs droids to make a fair judgement on if the pets are indeed weaker.

Again, why are we bringing up CL55 into this discussion? Here is your original post again: "I figured I'd get the ball rolling here by pointing out that research using these current probots has shown they are severely overpowered when they are supposed to be CL10." You have flatly stated that CL10 Probots are "overpowered" and yet you're not willing to compare them to the other **equal** CL10 pets available to the common public (BE made CL10's).

How are we supposed to hold a fair discussion on this when you're not allowing us to defend our CL10 Probot against CL10 BE made pets?

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That is why I'm saying that the current probots on live which are capable of soloing CL15-16 mobs by themselves are perfectly balanced. Just like the clones they read as CL10 but are actually CL15, that allows droids to compete fairly with non-ch clone pets as they are both within the same limitations. The problem lies in that the new stats posted will make the probot equal to around CL20, something that the devs have no only said is overpowered but also pushes CHs and BEs out of the market for non-ch pets. Ok, so you can call two at once and it's yet to be seen if buffs can make a significant difference but essentially my main concern is that the devs have made lot of fuss over keep the power of our clones down. So if they don't do something about the intended probot enhancement it makes them hypocritical of claiming our clones were overpowered, if they do change something then you guys have to be on the tail end of a nerf which will piss you right off and you'll tell them they should have realised it was overpowered before it went live.

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Keep in mind that Droids aren't Creature's, they're machines. My earlier post about being unable to compare them on the CL chart is because Droids have fundamental differences. Pets can be buffed and enhanced extermally. Droids cannot. Pets can stay out and do whatever they want as long as necessary. Droids cannot, they need batteries. You can call more pets if you're control is higher, even a Master Droid Engineer can only call 1 Droid at a time.

Since these differences are rather extreme (if they required that all pets needed to have a special item fed to them every half hour or so to keep them obedient and working do you think CH's would complain?) and since Buffs can make a pet a LOT stronger (You know how much 2K to EACH stat is?! Or even the lesser Chef bonuses?) the Creature Level chart is unfair to be used against something that cannot receive these bonuses.

It would basically be like comparing the damage on a probot to the damage on a pistol. Both are ranged weapons, but they have fundamental differences (yes that example is a bit extreme, but it is to the point).

Here's a list of the foods that can buff pets:

Sweesonberry Rolls: +375 - 625 to Health, Action and Mind for 30 - 60 minutes and 23% filling (meaning a pet can eat 4 of these clocking up to a +1500- 2500 buff for 30 to 60 minutes)

Vercupti of Agazza Boleruuee: (Stats are Same as Sweesonberry) for 6-12 minutes and 50%-70% filling.

Blap Biscuit: +550-875 to Health for 30 to 60 minutes and 10% - 24% filling.

Pastebread: +500 - 1600 to Action for 30 to 60 minutes and 23% filling.

Felbar: +675-1250 to Mind for 30 to 60 minutes and 23% filling.

These are about the same as Pet Stims, and can GREATLY enhance the time a pet can last in ANY situation. Not to mention the potential to keep them healed while their stats are so much higher.

If this doesn't 'even' out the classes, I don't know what does! Add onto that Doctor buffs (which I think ALL of us know the power of) and we're talking somer serious potential.

The whole point? Since pets have all this "potential" we cannot assume that Droids (who lack this and have other limitation) can be fairly represented on that CL scale without taking it into some sort of consideration.

While some of these are fairly hard to make for a Chef, most of them are much cheaper than Pet Stims, making them a very solid alternative or addition.

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| Skye Blueriver:                                     | 
| Master Droid Engineer & Master Weaponsmith          |
| Lost City on Naboo, Lowca : Vendors at 3660 5667    |
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I was standing in New Unity on TestCenter having a droid test. We had a CL 9 bol(not fully grown)fight a new probot. Lets just say the Probot had it's metal casing handed to it. Granted, I didn't not have the forsight to get screenshots.

The following from Unity were present for the test as well as someone from QA:

Reeli Owoo (his droid)

BlindEyed Gunman

Andria Pasretti (her bol)

NERF TAL

Really, someone calling a probot overpowered is either-

a) Escaped mental patient who belives he came from a Viet-cong prison camp who was forced to eat his own guano before escaping into Cambodia where he walked across water like Jesus to Hawaii to open up a Spam 'n Ham Bistro