Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sodan's Hybrid DE Proposal
My only problem with this is that everyone is going to want to own a super droid. Everyone that currently has a massive bank account (which is about everyone BUT DE), is going to grind straight up to Master and over night we have the CH disease again, but this time with MDE over thier heads. Three or four months down the road and it will all get nerfed to get rid of some of the new super class and we will be a second class profession again.
I don't like the idea of the DC profession, but at least there is a market buried in there. Every DE making thier own combat droids doesn't leave much room for a market. I seriously doubt you will see very many people ONLY going up the droid controlling branch, why would theyif they can make all of their own on demand and it only takes a few more hours to grind ??? Grind up and make your droids, then drop it all again.
I just don't see this happening. You could master DE for the super droid, MA to make all your basic supplies, and still have enough room left over to master Pistoleer, TKA or any other elite combat class. The best of both the combat world and the pet controlling world. Why wouldn't everyone want to bea DE?
The only way to make this work since Artisan is so easy to grind is to have to sink more skill points into it. Like Master Brawler, or Master Marksman in order to use the big droids. That would make it daunting enough to make only the people wanting the super droidsto try it out and keep out of the crafting business.
Go ahead with the one stars. This is my vision of the future of the class if this goes through.
Message Edited by Gribnitz on 03-05-2004 10:40 PM
Gribnitz,
Gribnitz wrote:
My only problem with this is that everyone is going to want to own a super droid. Everyone that currently has a massive bank account (which is about everyone BUT DE), is going to grind straight up to Master and over night we have the CH disease again, but this time with MDE over thier heads. Three or four months down the road and it will all get nerfed to get rid of some of the new super class and we will be a second class profession again.
I don't like the idea of the DC profession, but at least there is a market buried in there. Every DE making thier own combat droids doesn't leave much room for a market. I seriously doubt you will see very many people ONLY going up the droid controlling branch, why would theyif they can make all of their own on demand and it only takes a few more hours to grind ??? Grind up and make your droids, then drop it all again.
I just don't see this happening. You could master DE for the super droid, MA to make all your basic supplies, and still have enough room left over to master Pistoleer, TKA or any other elite combat class. The best of both the combat world and the pet controlling world. Why wouldn't everyone want to bea DE?
Go ahead with the one stars. This is my vision of the future of the class if this goes through.
Your post is a very good counter-balancing point. This is EXACTLY the sort of thing that would be good to hear on from the Devs.
Us: "How could Sodan's plan be tweaked to avoid this, Mr. Dev? Please.....help us build a better DE profession by being open and talking about these issues. We ARE the focus, are we not?"
Mr. Dev: << Insert Dev Post Here >>
Sodan,
Since this is your baby...you need to address these points. I think Gribnitz has put some decent sized holes in your plan, on the surface, at least.
/bow
Respectfully,
Gribnitz wrote:
My only problem with this is that everyone is going to want to own a super droid. Everyone that currently has a massive bank account (which is about everyone BUT DE), is going to grind straight up to Master and over night we have the CH disease again, but this time with MDE over thier heads. Three or four months down the road and it will all get nerfed to get rid of some of the new super class and we will be a second class profession again.
I don't like the idea of the DC profession, but at least there is a market buried in there. Every DE making thier own combat droids doesn't leave much room for a market. I seriously doubt you will see very many people ONLY going up the droid controlling branch, why would theyif they can make all of their own on demand and it only takes a few more hours to grind ??? Grind up and make your droids, then drop it all again.
I just don't see this happening. You could master DE for the super droid, MA to make all your basic supplies, and still have enough room left over to master Pistoleer, TKA or any other elite combat class. The best of both the combat world and the pet controlling world. Why wouldn't everyone want to bea DE?
Go ahead with the one stars. This is my vision of the future of the class if this goes through.
Well we can always rely on Grib to find the holes, and well done for that
So basically, all we need do is plug the hole thats allows a player to grind up, take the benefit, and drop it....sort of the same problem there currently is with Merchants if I'm not mistaken? Get your Uber vendors, drop merchant, and there is no penalty is how I read it. That is an EXPLOIT is ever I heard one. We must avoid that like the plague.
As to everyone going DE, no. Not so long as the cost is as stated..the pure combat brigade is the bugbear here, and I do not believe they will do it, most of them I know want as little crafting in the template as possible. defense stacking and specials see to that.
As TK says, this is Sodan's baby..so ...queue Sodan 
Gribnitz wrote:
<snip>
Go ahead with the one stars. This is my vision of the future of the class if this goes through.
Gribnitz...this is a whole new world of compromise we are trying to build here...no 1 stars, no flames, just listen, learn and amend. Possibly the first real brainstorm in a long long time.
I urge you to be positive here...this IS for sure our last crack of the whip (if it is not already too late)
I am certain that Sodan will take your views into account in his plan.
Please...one more try eh? One last try more likely.
Thankyou
Gribnitz wrote:
My only problem with this is that everyone is going to want to own a super droid. Everyone that currently has a massive bank account (which is about everyone BUT DE), is going to grind straight up to Master and over night we have the CH disease again, but this time with MDE over thier heads. Three or four months down the road and it will all get nerfed to get rid of some of the new super class and we will be a second class profession again.
Good point... I would tack this onto as another reason why I think the max pet level at MDE should be CL25, anything higher and you are dancing with the idea of a "super droid". With a more conservative CL25 cap, why would "uber leets" wish to grind all the way up DE just to get a pet that is nowhere near the power level a MCH could get? I doubt we'll have the CH disease again because these droids (hopefully tied into some pure utility or combat utility)shouldn't be, by any stretch of the imagination, equal that of the most powerful creature pets, IMO
I don't like the idea of the DC profession, but at least there is a market buried in there. Every DE making thier own combat droids doesn't leave much room for a market. I seriously doubt you will see very many people ONLY going up the droid controlling branch, why would theyif they can make all of their own on demand and it only takes a few more hours to grind ??? Grind up and make your droids, then drop it all again.
That's assuming the entire "market" of droids revolves around the >CL10 combat droids we're discussing in this thread. Itprobably won't. This is merely one facet to the future of Droid Engineering, the other facet we've all been promised is more utility. It's through utility that we shouldsee the bulk of our sales, as it is right now. Hopefully, these combat droids will yield a nice, but small,"high pricedmarket" viahigh stakesHAM and damage experimentation, rare resource hunting, specialization, and stat tweaking akin to something the Weaponsmiths do already for their high end weapons. That would be a nice change of pace for this profession.
I just don't see this happening. You could master DE for the super droid, MA to make all your basic supplies, and still have enough room left over to master Pistoleer, TKA or any other elite combat class. The best of both the combat world and the pet controlling world. Why wouldn't everyone want to bea DE?
Again, if the CL cap at MDE was 25, then you'd probably find a DE dabbler at 0,0,4,0 having what... a CL20 droid? *cough* That really doesn't sound overpowered to me. You could also avert this scenario by having the CL level broken up among two lines in DE, in smaller increments (+2 for example), thus forcing even more skill points out ofa player (requiring 0,0,4,4 for control over a CL 16 droid).
And don't forget, after the next patch, everyone can have at their side 1 CL10 BE made creature pet and 1 Probotfor a whopping20CL'salready, for free!!!!
Heh, and who says a TKA needsany other skills at allto be overpowered?
Virtanis
You really must not get hung up on exactly what the CL level is..The Devs can set that like Sodan has already said.
Please, stay focussed on the plan, never mind the CL class, it is just devisive.
If you sign up to the idea..then the detail can be worked out afterwards..but this is the very first plan I have seen that has gathered together so many from the different camps.
Please give it a chance..the CL detail will be balanced by the Devs in the end anyway.
Thanks for listening
OOps missed yor comments on utility...as things stand there will be no useful utility, but PLEASE separate this issue from that..they are two completely different arguments (see my thread as I know you have on TH and Utility..inc Runesabre input)
Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 03-05-2004 08:54 PM
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Since this is your baby...you need to address these points. I think Gribnitz has put some decent sized holes in your plan, on the surface, at least.
I regret naming it "my" plan because I don't want to to be about me. I am responding substantively to most posts because I want to kep the ball rolling.
However, this is NOT my plan. It is a proposal for the DE community to save us from the insepid "droid invasion" and supplant it with something that will 1) give us bug fixes, 2) give us utility modules and 3) make DE a hybrid profession to the benefit of crafters, combat DEs and dabblers who want a roger roger droid rather than some sludge panther. (Do panthers hang out in sludge? Lol!)
Seriously, TK, I know you imagine yourself as a provocatuer, but how 'bout you advocate for this plan rather than sit back and ask questions? Play the devil's advocate for the proposal. I know you can lob questions. But can you supply ANSWERS to the troubling issues I have tried to address here? I encourage others to do so as well. This is for the community, not for me. Where's the doughbacca style breakdown in favor of the plan? I'm not a dev if you recall. Just a DE that wants to make AND use droids -- one who will spend the points to do so, if they're not in a universally-rejected DH profession. (Remember, the skill trees spamming "a" "a" "a", TK?)
It is my hope that we can gather consensus around this plan so that we can have cool combat droids to sell and use, rather than just to shoot as mob. If you have this wish too and you think this plan or a variant of it will work then I encourage you to speak up. In the alternate, ask yourself what the cost of your objections might be. Combat R2 anyone?
Same reply as to TK. Help me out here with ideas. Shain. I will reply in turn. Lets make some suggestions here. Gribnitz, what about you, man? What do you have to contribute to this plan? (my reply to you isforthcoming soon)
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
As TK says, this is Sodan's baby..so ...queue Sodan
Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 03-05-2004 09:17 PM
Hell Sodan you are posting faster than I can answer.
Now my advice would be to slow your heartrate down, pause and think.
I know you care passionately about this, but you are getting overheated.
Why ask me for contributions, when I already agree with your plan..for Gods sake dont do the classic 'digging your own hole'
Pause, you are geting too excited.
It IS a good plan, you have people signing up to it I never would have imagined..so just slow down..it's working
Viranis
if all you want to do is argue ..fine
The biggest failure in any business discussion..brainstorming effort..is when the participants are allowed to get into detail before time. You can pay 1000's of dollars to hear that on a course..or you can take it from me who has the T-Shirt..up to you
Do it with somebody else.
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
Viranis
if all you want to do is argue ..fine
The biggest failure in any business discussion..brainstorming effort..is when the participants are allowed to get into detail before time. You can pay 1000's of dollars to hear that on a course..or you can take it from me who has the T-Shirt..up to you
Do it with somebody else.
..........
Um, I'm for this plan.... what's your problem?