Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid Report: What's being done about this....Invasion?!?
TheRealTK421
Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:23 pm
#79
/bow
ThingThatGoesBump wrote:
I've been lurking around for a while now. Not wanting to get into the discussions before I had gotten a "feel" for these boards. Now is the time, now is the hour and so on ...... err.... or something.
Ahhh...one who reads and studies before he speaks. My kinda guy (but please don't take that in an EricTheGreat sort of way).
Hi everyone!
I just got into the game about a month ago. I was dead set on Droid Engineering from the start and I have been working on that since I started. Am already 3/2/3/4 (Dunno if that is impressive for a non powergamer after a month?)
That depends on how you got there. If you've been doing/seeing a lot of other stuff..I'd say that's pretty good.
I messed around in-game for about 7 weeks or so before getting serious on the DE thing...but I knew, even before I picked up the box, that it's where I'd 'be' in the game for the long term.
I wanna say that I think you're doing a great job TK. I was a "professional (theirversion of aCorrespondant)for a profession in Anarchy Online for a over a year, and I know what it's like. Keep up the great work
Thanks..I'm doin' ma best! And...it's gonna better all, I promise.
I had a few thoughts and I put them in a post, that's been sliding further and further down the list.
Yea...that's gonna happen on the DE boards for some time, I suspect. Welcome aboard!
And...hopefully I gave you your first 5-star.
Respectfully,
KnarTheMad
Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:43 pm
#80
I'm not sure if this is still considered an issue (it's really hard to keep up with all the posts on these forums) but in regards to calling multiple droids at once, I have a (partial) solution, I think.
Let people call up to 19 levels of droids.
Why? Most "combat" droids are going to be CL 10 or higher, right? So, if you up the total level to 19 (or some number less than 20, I'm not really sure what the level of a pure utility droid is) you can potentially have ONE combat droid out, and ONE non-combat droid out at once. OR, you could have TWO non-combat droids out. This can solve that whole "I can't repair my own droids with my repair droid" issue (now, I know that the droid repair kits are out, but there has to be some other potential use for this ability, like maybe when Publish 8 comes out). That is one solution I could see to the whole "I want to call more than one droid at once" request.
Just a thought.....
Radren
Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:19 pm
#81
I do follow your train of thought on money spent, but if you look at this in the aspect of money spent by players to purchase items from players you should really only consider money transfered between those players.
Sure you may sink 20k in harv maint a day but in real terms of the player economy this is meaningless. It provicdes you with the reources that you need to sell items yes. but the direct rotation of that money goes no where. That money is not really going to anyone else in the game nor is insurance or cloning.
By only looking at what money is used to purchase items from players to other players I would say that the combat classes spend more a day on average, between Buffs, Foods, Spices, Weps, Clothing. etc. they are bound to go through stuff far faster then crafters.
I too have played both sides of the realm since the first week. And will 100% agree that penny for penny crafters spend more but for money circulating the player economy combat types do indeed.
Also the two sides must balance the economy, without combat types willing to go kill lairs or grab loot there would be no income flowing. This is really the true beggining to the money flow
Combat group kills Rancor lairs get 4k each armor damaged 200 points in process, wep cond drops 3%, buffs down to 1.5 hrs etc. Buys new weps, armor, buffs, and crafter spend money on maint fees,items and resources they need, but in the end someone sinks that money back into the system in maint cost. complete cylce.
The problem that trully kills the DE is that they cannot produce a item that the upper combat guys want or need, Sure I'll gladly spend 25 to 30k for a great advanced r2 with crafting and medic modules when I am doing doc, but heck I still have one I bought 6 months back. Why buy another. 30k that what 1.5 days of harv maint for you.
With Combat droids the upper combat groups need stuff they can use to pound holes in the Rancor lairs, and sure they understad that that may mean burning up some skill points in a DH type proffesion but if the power to punch ratio is worth it they'll do it.
Look at Chefs before the last patch you may have grabbed a crate of something here or there, for emergency backup, Now chefs are getttng 250-400k a crates for Brandy. Why, becuase it trully helps the upper Combat echelons fight, and those guys have the money to spend to get it. Ask any rifleman, before brandy your chances of taking down a lair alone was tough as mind specials killed ya. Two shots of 400 plus brandy for 40 mins mean far more ability to hammer lairs faster. results, more moola to spend on stuff I need or want.
Why would any Tk or Commando who can destroy a Gurreck lair in minutes consider even thinking about using a 10cl Ham Droid and spending tons on repair modules when he can simply become master grab a buff and brandy and head out to wail alone, worse case I get novice medic and IM set to take almost anything in this game. Sure I'll need to group up to take on a few things but I sure don't need a 1k ham probot doing 70 points of damage with me.
What needs to occur for the DE to make a lliving is being able to supply the gamers who like to fight with a viable fighting option, Another wep. its what most of us expected from this patch. I certainly wouldn't mind grabbing a CL10 DE enhanced Combat style droid with med armor and 3k of ham that can hang with me on Endor. I don't expect it to do the tanking for me nor do I see it taking the lair alone, but sure would be nice if I knew i could call it in to buy me a few minutes time. If it can hold off the lastwebmaster for a minute will I power boost back up and catch my breathe then its of value to me, If all it can do is buzz around my head with some annoying probot sound and hit once or twice before thewebmaster flattensit why bother.
Also I hear how heavy droids would unbalance the game,but I don't see this asa reasonable arguement , if any player can pull the droid then the balance wasjust like it was before. Sure you don't want to make a droid that can survive alone to beat the crap out of any heavy lair but a TKM with a good droid vs a novice entertainer with the same droid is still as uneven as it was before. What it will do is give the poor new guy a chance to get going a bit faster thats all. I could really care less if Joe Newbie marksman works his tail of for a week and buys himself a 3k ham droid to help him take on a lair on Coronet, good for him. If you want to balance that simply make the damge done by the droid effect the amount of XP he gains. He'll certainly balance himself out then. No droid 3k xp on lair, using droid to do lair for him 100 xp gained from lair. But used wisely 2500 on lair becuase he called the droid in to back him up not fight his battle for him. Now thats balance people.
Also the CH would have to suffer is mute too. SImply don't make droids and pets count on the same bar. If a MCH can pull 70cl of pets thats his fighting skills. Trust me I have been a MCH and pets alone do not by any means make up for the punch of a LLC special or flame cone 1 special. It took me far longer with MCH do drop a lair then it ever does with an LLC and Flame thower. So who cares if the CH can pull a gurreck and a descent combat droid. Dont count um the same then the balance is still there.
In comparison a DH type can use droids no one else can equal in over all Quality toa CH of comparable skills but he to can pull a cl10 pet.
Also I love the idea that I can repair it, but I surely don't mind if its finally going to be unreapirable. Let metoss in a fresh battery and watch the ham bar go back up resonably quickly. have it ready for the next lair and good for several weeks but I sure don't mind needing to go get a new one becuase its just plain out unreapairable after a reasonable time frame. I mean I don't go screaming mad at my Wepsmith becuase 3 weeks laterI need a new LLC. But i sure dont want to have to go buy hard to craft highly expensive repair guns just to keep it going all day either. Thats more work than value.
This would trully help the DE, easy money on crates of batteries, and return bussiness, I mean once i found a good Armorsmith and Wepsmith i was back there whenever i need somthing. Same now for Chefs.
Just allow the DE's to make longer lasting batteries then Artisons, Artisons makeA pack batteries good for ham recovery of 1 k per 10 mins while a DE can make B,C,andD cell batteries able to recover 1k of ham in as fast as 2 minutes. And battery life shoudl be dependant on this also. If I use a combat droid a ton in battle i shoudl not expect his D cell battery to last by any means as long as a Doc using one in a droid to craft.
Batteries shoudl be able to supply a specifc amount of ham rechare and droids should use ham in terms of output and damage taken. A combat droid blazing guns all afternoon tanking should chew throughbatteries fairly quickly (maybe a D cell a lair if faceing some tougher creatures. but a R2 unit sitting there to add to a docs medic skills or hold inventory sure should last on a D cell for a week or more.
Sure this may need fine tuning for combat issue but its feasible indeed.
No matter what the droids need to be of value to the heavy hitters if the DE's expect to get return business on a normal time frame from combat types, becuase sooner or later everyone is going to move up and if the droid is of no valueto anyone but newbies then return business is slim. I Haven't met many people in game who's goal is to stay novicefor long???? And when I was new last thign I was going ot invest my money in is soem crappy droid that need a lot of batteries adn repair tools to maintain. Sorry where is the wep smith at. I'll buy a gun instead.
Kagura
Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:58 pm
#82
Actually, that is a very good point. The only thing I can remember that approaches a personal combat droid is the assassin's little floater than inserts the poisonous catpillars into Amadilla's room.
An yes, killing is very well developed in the game already . . .
But still, a killer probot is such an attractive concept.
:-)
Apsmax
Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:51 pm
#83
Necroflower wrote:
Even if you throw in insurance costs (which both crafters and combat professions have to do by the way), and cloning, we have this:
COMBAT PROFESSION:
Weapon decay (100K /14 days = 7142cr)
Armour decay (100K /14 days = 7142cr)
Clone (3 times a day = 2K)
Insurance (900cr * 4 deaths=3600cr)
Total Combat Cost Per Day = 20884cr.
And, this assumes they move locations to hunt three times a day and die a lot (bad at their combat job). PvP deaths and such don't count as there is no decay or re-insurance. The crafter below clones once a day (as I travel to more than one planet for harvestors), and dies once from aggro mobs per day (usually more if it's a bad day...I have no combat abilities on this character). It still ends up with the crafter removing more money in sinks from the game per day than the combat person. AND...in truth, with 4 deaths per day, insuring each time so there is only 1% decay on that armour, it would take FAR longer for it to decay than 14 days...so lower that combat number even more.
CRAFTING PROFESSION:
Harvestor Maintenance (1440cr per day * 10 harvestors = 14400cr)
Power Maintenance (1920cr per day * 2 fusions = 3840cr)
Large House Maintenance (1200cr per day)
Factory Maintenance (720cr per day)
Small House Maintenance (720 cr per day)
Clone (1 time a day = 1K)
Insurance (1100cr * 1 deaths = 1100cr)
Total Crafting Cost Per Day = 22900cr
P.S. -- As the above person so aptly noted, I forgot vendor maintence too, and bazaar fees for those without vendors...so tack a few thousand more per day onto the crafter side...
I understand your point, and I suppose I did not really get my point across. I really meant to say that artisans are rarely return buyers -- whereas combat professions are. I've always though of harvesters as a way of "buying" resources from the system.
Thank you for your calculations 
TheRealTK421
Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:18 pm
#84
Laaba wrote:
Now take the DE profession out of the game and what happens?
- Jammed Med Centers and people getting stuck into camps (to heal wounds)
- All crafters camped around private crafting stations in their house (since they have no mobility)
- No way to 'front-load' crafting of manufacturing schematics for insertion into your next set of factory runs (i.e. you have to make it, insert, rinse/repeat...)
- Inability to craft higher-level anything in the wild(or experiment on it)...unless you happen to be with a Ranger that can drop a higher level camp. And, then, you only get a Food/Chem station.
- No way to prevent item decay on incap/death without facing insurance prices. (Item storage)
- No way to lessen chance of being successfully scanned when carrying contraband. (Item storage)
- No way to augment personal character storage (if you happen to be nearly full).
- etc.
/bow
Respectfully,
Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 03-18-2004 08:19 PM
Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 03-18-2004 08:20 PM
Laaba
Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:41 am
#85
TheRealTK421
IMHO this is the way I see things with our profession... Bottom line we as DE's WANT BALANCE.... not the little "balance" stuff like droid vs be pet. What we want is this... You take the Ent out of this game and what happens? We all die of Battle Fatigue. Take the Medical Profession out of the game and what happens? Take the Arch WS AS out of the game of course 1 at a time and what happens? You take any one of the above trades out of the gameone at a time and the entire game suffers.Now take the DE profession out of the game and what happens? The BH is in a bit of a fix and it might be hard to make crafting stations.... but a hot fix can take care of that. This is were we want BALANCE we want the game to suffer if our class was deleted, sort of like we are now.
There have been numerous good posts over the last 9 months here... One that sticks out in my mind is where droids are made with specific mods for each trade in the game. They would work similar to weapons where if u were a chef and had a combat droid it would not do u much good. IE take all the current profession and at Master level give them a good droid.
We as DE's are a good dedicated community over all.... we put up with more than any paying customer should.
Again IMHO the reson people are upset about this patch is it does NOTHING to help balance the scales.
Laaba
Laaba
Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:53 am
#86
Laaba wrote:
Now take the DE profession out of the game and what happens?
- Jammed Med Centers and people getting stuck into camps (to heal wounds)
- All crafters camped around private crafting stations in their house (since they have no mobility)
- No way to 'front-load' crafting of manufacturing schematics for insertion into your next set of factory runs (i.e. you have to make it, insert, rinse/repeat...)
- Inability to craft higher-level anything in the wild(or experiment on it)...unless you happen to be with a Ranger that can drop a higher level camp. And, then, you only get a Food/Chem station.
- No way to prevent item decay on incap/death without facing insurance prices. (Item storage)
- No way to lessen chance of being successfully scanned when carrying contraband. (Item storage)
- No way to augment personal character storage (if you happen to be nearly full).
- etc.
OMG I knew we were doomed now I see why.
LOL this is just 2 funny... I cannot belive your response TheRealTK421 -Do u get paid by SOE?
Let me TELL you how it is .... I have mentioned that I have been a Master DE for going on 8 months and am really pretty well off in this game. I offered to 2 guilds [which combined have 250 to 300 members] to make FREE DROIDS for every member of both guilds to help them out. Guild 1 says NO Thanks they are useless.... Guild 2 is still testing the NEW droids of this Publish 7 to see if they even think it is worth my time to make them.
So I sit with 4 factories and the parts in them to make over 300 droids of various types [le repair, probot and r3 units]... Making up these parts did not even really dent my supplies.... My credits in the game are over 8 digits... So CREDITS mean nothing to me now .... My houses are paid over 6 months in advance so I don't have to check them... NO I did not make my money selling droids... I made it selling resourses that I harvested, slicing and selling IMP FP.
And NO I have not even tried to sell a new droid from this publish I think I would be ripping the customers off if I did.
It u have the slighest doubt that I am telling u the truth just send me a tell in game and I will show u all the parts.
The reality of this patch is the "droid invasion" is so bad I cannot even give the droids away for FREE.
Laaba - Wookiee
Master Smuggler - Master Explorer - Master DE - Corbantis
PS. NO I AM NOT willing to give these droids away to people I don't know... And don't even suggest that I have dupped my money or used a exploit to get it. It is very easy to run IMP missions and make a 1/2 mill a day in selling FP.
zeeraz
Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:03 am
#87
Lets not forget the leader of the Dark Sun's droid Guri, I think her name was. That was one kick but combat droid.
.
Shian_Tavkin
Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:05 am
#88
kinlarron wrote:
Ok, i have to say somthing now. Im not a DE, nor do i plan on being one, buti use droids more than most. I have 3 probots a R3 and a MSE, and i use all 5 regularly.
Then ...
And now, post patch, theres talk of making DE a combat class? Are you joking! Lets leave the combat to professions that are good at it. Giving DE combat abilities or bonuses is like saying a master weaponsmith should be a better shot than a rifleman.
Besides, whats the point of giving DEs combat abilities if they have to use nerfed, useless combat droids? DE is a crafting prof, always has been. And ya know what, we have a pet combat class already.
Kinlarron
It is plain you are not a DE as you yourself said..and it is also plain that you have not read enough of the Hybrid DE thread to know what you have said above no longer makes sense under that proposal.
I recommend you do study that thread by Sodan, and then post whatever opinions you like, but writing as you have on issues you dont understand is neither helping us nor you as a droid 'enthusiast'
Please accept this message in the spirit it is written...positively.
TheRealTK421
Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:56 am
#89
With all due respect, the inability to be able to craft in a mobile fashion would make me mad as hell, now that I've had it.
HawkCormyr wrote:
There is nothing in this list that would made people really upset, maybe the medic module, and that is not so sure ...
Also, do you think people might be a bit upset if they had to constantly be running to a Med Center or setting camp JUST to get wounds healed?
....come on.
/bow
Respctfully,
Kilarny
Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:07 am
#90
TheRealTK421 wrote:
HawkCormyr wrote:
There is nothing in this list that would made people really upset, maybe the medic module, and that is not so sure ...
With all due respect, the inability to be able to craft in a mobile fashion would make me mad as hell, now that I've had it.
Also, do you think people might be a bit upset if they had to constantly be running to a Med Center or setting camp JUST to get wounds healed?
....come on.
Uhh...sorry, but some people I know still set up a camp anyway. They obviously think it is easier than having batteries on you and pulling out a droid.
Hopefully that will change as people get into the 15-second habit.
/bow
Respctfully,
/wave
Hey, my R2 battlebot can take out a Gurrcat no problem. I have some more bugs for the bug thread.
TheRealTK421
Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:11 am
#91
Yea...you're right. Some people will just pull a camp. And, that's cool....as well they should (if they can). A Scout's gotta get XP somehow.
Kilarny wrote:
/wave
Hey, my R2 battlebot can take out a Gurrcat no problem. I have some more bugs for the bug thread.
My point was that there as aspects of 'life' in SWG that ARE made better and easier with droids.
Would the game totally fall apart without us? No.
Would the game totally fall apart without any particular profession? No...it would just be far harder and yuckier to play.
I know, everyone...you're upset. I'm doing my best to stay on top of things. There's many aspects to this release that work against us, just as there are many aspects that work for us.
/bow
Respectfully,