Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: About DE only combat droids. My 2 credits.
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I really like the way Sintrosi is leading our community. He has the pulse of our thoughts.
By the way...Sin's a lady. And yes, she does a very good job (I just disagree withher on the DE-only thing 
).
Thank you Sintrosi, and I agree with the DE-only combat droid. Make it a master DE only item, and to balance out, have it requires parts from Master Artisan, crates, of Master Artisan parts. So it will be it quite difficult for the dabbler to be self-sufficient.
Sintrosi wrote:
One thing I should say is ... if you dont want a DE only combat droid, just dont use one? I know it sounds simplistic but again there will be a certain maximum level of combat droid available to the general public. regardless if we get a better one or not.
So the pure crafters dont have to use one. And those that do wantone get one. Heck how can you go wrong there? Everyone is happy then ... simplistic I know but it makes sense to me. Maybe I should get some sleep and then post
This disheartens me, Sintrosi, because it means you obviously haven't read all of the threads where this very question has been answered over and over. I'll cut you some slack, though, for having been on vacation and for not wanting to read 400 posts on the issue in one fell swoop.
"Just don't use them" is a response that clearly demonstrates that you don't understand the problem. The problem is that adding a superior DE-only combat droid changes the focus of the class. We would no longer be crafters, we would be warriors, and that is something that we have never been. It is a radical and fundamental change to the class that has far-reaching consequences that aren't immediately obvious.
There are better ways to improve the Droid Engineer class than to turn us into a red-headed stepchild of the Creature Handler. Give us a unique utility droid if you must give us something unique. Give us the ability to control multiple droids at once (but limit it to 1 combat droidjust like everyone else). Give us the ability to repair droid damage and wounds in the field. But don't pull a bait-and-switch on us and turn us into Droid Handlers. That will attract non-crafters to the profession who will be perfectly happy to dump product. They will have an alternate source of income and won't care what they charge for whatever few droids that they sell. And that will ruin the droid economy for the crafters who DO NOT have that alternate source of income.
We are crafters. Don't change that.
Kollos wrote:
This disheartens me, Sintrosi, because it means you obviously haven't read all of the threads where this very question has been answered over and over. I'll cut you some slack, though, for having been on vacation and for not wanting to read 400 posts on the issue in one fell swoop.
Not agreeing with you does not mean she does not understand. And judging by the polls on this topic slightly over half want us to have a DE only combat droid.
Drashk wrote:
I have a big issue with this arguement. Do you see a huge amount of Weaponsmiths or Armorsmiths that flock to those professions just so that they can make their own weapons? Yes, there aren't any WS or AS only items (yet), but do you see this happening now? I think that manykeep missing the point of what is being said byquite a fewof the DE-only side of the arguement. I don't speak for everyone here, but a good number of us are asking for a Combat Droid at MDE that is slightly better than want anyone else will be able to use, if they have a cert from one of the Elite combat Classes.
Of course not, Drashk, because those Weaponsmiths and Armorsmiths CANNOT USE THEIR OWN PRODUCTS. At least not at their full effectiveness. What you're asking for in the DE profession is the exact opposite - you are essentially asking that the T21 Rifle be Weaponsmith-only and that Weaponsmiths be given the certs to use it. (Ignore the fact that the T21, despite being the "best" rifle, really isn't the best.)
Slightly better doesn't solve the problem. All that will do is ensure that the new Droid Handlers will also be Creature Handlers so that they can have both sets of pet perks. The problem is that we firmly believe that Droid Engineer is a crafting profession and we don't want to see it changed into a combat profession. Which is exactly what adding a superior DE-only combat droid will do, even if it is only slightly superior.
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And judging by the polls on this topic slightly over half want us to have a DE only combat droid.
And almost half don't. I will bet you that if you asked all the "yeses" surveyed whether they would want a DE-only droid if it were the only new droid they got (as the devs are obviously pushing in TH's proposed plan), half of those would say no, giving us 75% against. Unfortunately, no one has asked this question. Everyone has stopped at "hey, wouldn't it be cool to have a DE-only droid." Of course many are going to respond yes to this.
You can give half of your profession the finger based on a poll that is too close todeclare victory(and with less than 100 responses), or we can work on an agreeable alternative. IMHO nothing EITHER way should be implemented on a simple majority. It needs to be at least 75% concensus before we make changes.
Also, I haven't seen any ideas from you yet...just unconstructive "nuh-uhs." Unfortunately, a DE-only droid is the only thing you will consider, so we are stuck at a brick wall... Propose something...be constructive.
Droid-Creator wrote:
Of course you can get the answer you want if you change the question enough, that means nothing.
And yes, it is the only thing I will consider, the only thing you will consider is being able to sell all droids so "Pot / Kettle".
Untrue. We're perfectly happy with DE-only droids. We just don't want the DE-only droids to radically and fundamentally change the profession in the way that a superior DE-only combat droid would.
Give Droid Engineers a perk - allow them to call multiple pets, but only allow one combat droid. If one of the other droids is a repair droid, that would effectively boost the power of the combat droid without requiring that the combat droid be superior to all other combat droids. It would also be more in-line with the way the game is played (Combat Medics and Doctors heal player characters in combat, so why not have a repair droid repairing them in combat?) and would introduce fewer negative side effects than any of the DE-only combat droid proposals that have been posted.
In fact, that's not a bad idea for something to be added as a DE-only droid. Call it a Combat Repair Droid. That prevents us from becoming a combat class (we'd be combat support at best) and would still be a cool Master Droid Engineer perk for those who are so set on having one.
It looks to me like the Devs intend for Creature Handlers to create and sell mounts while Droid Engineers create and sell combat sidekicks. They've already said that non-CH pets are going to be capped at CL 10 and that the current Probot is going to receive a boost. If the boosted Probot is better than a CL 10 pet, then all sales for combat sidekicks would move to DE instead of CH, and that's a good thing.
I'm still waiting for a good argument supporting the need a superior DE-only combat droid. So far all anyone has posted is "but I waaaant one!"
Daker-Naritus wrote:
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And judging by the polls on this topic slightly over half want us to have a DE only combat droid.
And almost half don't.
Almost half certainly isn't a majority. 
And Kollos- Nobody NEEDS a good combat droids. Hey, for that matter nobody really NEEDS a droid with a crafting station when they can just find player made ones everywhere. Oh hey, we dont really NEED medics most of the time in the game, since damage heals naturally. OH YEAH! Nobody NEEDS to eat meat in life when we can get all our protein from soy cubes! SOYLENT GREEN FOR EVERYONE!!!
This is a game we are paying for. This game is a want. Where does a need come in? Want is what matters, because its what we want that makes us come back to play more, which means more $$$$$ for SOE.
Kollos, you once again have taken a quote from someone else out of context of what was being talked about so that you would prove a point. Thank for proving my point that 'manykeep missing the point of what is being said byquite a fewof the DE-only side of the arguement.'
Ockale_MDE wrote: I have enough competition from other CRAFTERS who want to sell product, the last thing I need is competition and lost sales to people who only take up DE to get the cool new DE-only Droid.
Drashk wrote: I have a big issue with this arguement. Do you see a huge amount of Weaponsmiths or Armorsmiths that flock to those professions just so that they can make their own weapons?
(*Cliff note - Meaning that do you see combat professions flocking to WS or AS so that they can make their own weapons.)
Daker-Naritus wrote: You can give half of your profession the finger based on a poll that is too close todeclare victory(and with less than 100 responses), or we can work on an agreeable alternative.
Daker-Naritus, so you are saying that Sintrosi can't have her own opinion just because it is not yours? (Might be construed as using one of Kollos' tactics, but I wonldn't have known that it was directed at Droid-Creatorby looking at the the quote.:smileyvery-happy
Sintrosi wrote: And remember ... even if we are on opposite sides of the fence on this. I still represent you all as a whole and will not be pushing my own agenda unless it coincides with a majority. (http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionaryMajority 3a - a number greater than half of a total)
Sintrosi,
Instead of us JUST getting a special combat droid, would it be possiable to make it more flexiable? I mean, couldnt there also be an option to have a droid to help the crafters as well? Why not let the individual droid engineer decide what sort of "special" droid they want?
Please?
~Das-Ree
Das-Ree, that is a freakin awsome idea and could actually lead to a compromise if handled correctly. This is a concept that should be looked into a little more
/sarcasm on
The problem is that it opens up an entirely new can of worms;two sides arguing over what the droid should look like.
Das-Ree wrote:
Instead of us JUST getting a special combat droid, would it be possiable to make it more flexiable? I mean, couldnt there also be an option to have a droid to help the crafters as well? Why not let the individual droid engineer decide what sort of "special" droid they want?
I can't speak for the rest of us who are against DE only combat droids, but giving us something special too has nothing to do with the problem. Being able to build droids is in and of itself special, that is your prize for mastering DE. DE-only combat droids are a great source of imbalance for the game as a whole, as well as a complete change from the current profession. This brings me to my other point, the whole simple majority idea doesn't really fit well with this situation. If you were talking about adding something random then yes, that would work fine. Unfortunately, your not, your talking about fundamentaly changing the profession and future coarse of the profession. Seeing as how everyone knew what they were getting into when they signed on for DE. Normaly when you want to change something like this that is already established, you need a 2/3 majority of ALL people involved. While this isn't realy feasible (aside from intervention from the devs), you don't even have a 2/3 majority of those on this forum.
On a side note, I think if all of the modules were fixed and some of the new ideas people have had have been added this topic wouldn't be nearly so big. People are frustrated, upset, and think they deserve some candy for waiting impatiently.
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer - Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.