Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Publish 7 Update
progman63
Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:14 pm
#79
Boy am I friggin confused now.
And I bet at this point so are the devs.
When the topic of combat droids first came up in theold DE plan with "DE only combat modules" it was assumed the skills would be added to the DE skill tree.
That sure produced an awful rucus in the DE community - "We don't want to be a hybrid profession". So a seperate profession to use combat droids was proposed to the devs by the DE community.
Then the devs announce a proposed seperate profession for using combat droids - suggested by the DE community - and everyone starts screaming bloody murder.
DE adamantly insist that combat droids shouldn't just be copies of CH/BE pets with new skins. They need to differentiate themselves from other combat pets. "Maybe if droids had lower armor but higher damage to compensate".
So the devs develop combat modules for CL10 droids that produce lower armor but higher damage to compensate.
And now DE cry "This is crap! We can't tank with droids anymore!"
Well, last time I checked most CH/BE pets were used as tanks.
DE say they want more individuality with droid models so that all droids aren't the exact same thing but with different chassis.
So the devs implement the combat modules so droids need to be dedicated to either service or combat (i.e. individuality).
"Bad devs! Bad!" we scold. "Now we can't produce probots with full damage, 40% resist, and all possible crafting stations!"
DE tell the devs that they, and their customers, have wanted combat droids since release.
So the devs arrange the "Droid Invasion" to release combat droids. Maybe not Droidekas right off the bat, but perhaps soon.
And the DE community screams "This is crap! We don't want combat droids! We want utility droids! Scrap the invasion!"
Now DE are saying they, and their customers, want Droidekas and other combat droids - again.
DE say this, devspropose this, DE cry.
DE say that, devspropose that, DE cry.
DEsay the other, devspropose the other, DE cry.
I see a very detrimental pattern here.
I don't think the problem is so much that the devs don't listen as much as DE can't decide what the heck it is they want.
I'll agree that not allDE issues have always been communicated to the devs with the utmost clarity.
But the devs receive issues, suggestions,and wish lists from the community, evaluate the possibility of implementing various features, prioritize them depending on how they will affect the entire player base, and develop plans for releasing them.
Only to get repeatedly kicked in the teeth for their effort.
At this point, it would almost be better if they just stopped listening to the community- push features live that fit into the overall design of the game and benefitted the majority of the player base.
That's not what I'd really like to see.
But at least we'd get droid content into the game now, and tweak what needed to be adjusted afterwards.
At least we'd see something instead of nothing.
Or a mangled up mess designed by comittee.
DarkNexus1014
Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:58 pm
#80
I'm not a droid engineer, so forgive my lack of knowledge on your profession.
I've been mostly playing my Creature Handler/Bio-Engineer lately, and he has almost no combat ability.
Also, my pets have very horrible damage. But they can tank. Oh yes, they can tank. But tanking ability does me no good if I cannot finish the mobs off.
I personally plan to buy the new combat droids as a source of damage to complement my pets. And if it is true that players can pull out a non-CH pet and a droid at the same time, they probably will too!
I just hope they can fit a Food/Chemical crafting station on my uber, uber droid 
DarkNexus1014
Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:00 pm
#81
Oh yeah, one more thing: People keep comparing Droids to CL 10 pets, but most people forget that creature can have special attacks too. Maybe if another profession could make combat modules that give attacks like Knockdown, and Dizzy, and whatnot, and the Droid Engineer could put those in place of one or two of the droid's regular combat modules, it might make the droids better?
TheRealTK421
Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:13 pm
#82
DarkNexus1014 wrote:
Oh yeah, one more thing: People keep comparing Droids to CL 10 pets, but most people forget that creature can have special attacks too. Maybe if another profession could make combat modules that give attacks like Knockdown, and Dizzy, and whatnot, and the Droid Engineer could put those in place of one or two of the droid's regular combat modules, it might make the droids better?
** removes his Corr. hat **
Maybe this was part of what was under-the-hood for DH/DC.
I'm not saying that I know this to be the case...it is pure conjecture on my part.
** puts back on his Corr. hat **
I'm not saying that I know this to be the case...it is pure conjecture on my part.
** puts back on his Corr. hat **
/bow
Respectfully,
Respectfully,
Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 03-12-2004 02:13 PM
AudioOrgana
Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:21 pm
#83
Arcid wrote:
progman63, A few responses, please don't take this as a flame, it's no intended as such.
DE say they want more individuality with droid models so that all droids aren't the exact same thing but with different chassis.
So the devs implement the combat modules so droids need to be dedicated to either service or combat (i.e. individuality).
"Bad devs! Bad!" we scold. "Now we can't produce probots with full damage, 40% resist, and all possible crafting stations!"
I think you're reading too much into a small but vocal minority on this point, most of the DEs can see that they can craft Probots with a greater variaty of utility vs combat, with the same relative values as the current adv probot in terms of combat vs utility
I believe you may be refering to me here.
First, progman's creative facts show he has little to no knowldge of the DE profession or what has actually gone on in the past few months, so take anything he says with a grain of salt.
He clearly misunderstood the very minor point, but allow me to clarify.
There were two markets for Probots : 1) people who wanted what amounted to a very minor tank, and 2) people who liked/needed a tougher chassis for their utility modules. Both of those uses go out the window with this patch. Period.
Progman also completely misrepresented the entire situation, which was more like this :
You go into a diner which has no menus and the waiter tellsyou for an hour he'll be right with you, you're his next priority!
When he finally comes around, he says, "Yo, you want a turkey on rye?"
You say, "No, actually, I'd like..." and then he zones out and misses you telling him what you want.
He returns, another hour later, and puts a plate of liver and onions down in front of you.
"This isn't what I ordered," you say. He says, "Well, you said you didn't want Turkey on Rye!"
This is what happened. The Devs never said, "You have these choices :", it was always cryptic messages and long periods of slience.
And we never ever ever said we wanted a Droid Handling (Liver and onions), we simply said we didn't want to become a hybird (turkey on rye) because we thought we could have certifications (the hamburger, which Raph Koster recomended in the first place, and what we really wanted when we ordered).
Now, that we FINALLY found out about the options, yes, those opinons have shifted only because we didn't have any idea what was really available to fill our plates.
Audio
Olepi
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:01 pm
#85
DarkNexus1014 wrote:
Oh yeah, one more thing: People keep comparing Droids to CL 10 pets, but most people forget that creature can have special attacks too. Maybe if another profession could make combat modules that give attacks like Knockdown, and Dizzy, and whatnot, and the Droid Engineer could put those in place of one or two of the droid's regular combat modules, it might make the droids better?
You obviously have not seen teh combat modules in action. I watched with my friend last night as he sent his new ATTACK droid r5 into action against a spice fiend yeah you know the real easy to kill guys that walk aroaund that a newbie might find difficuly with newbie weapons.
The droid got owned!
that r5 had 5 combat modules and still could not do crap with his litlte pizza cutter weapon and his ultra light lightning cannon.
yeah i see NO one inspired to buy combat droidsafter this publish.
SOE has struck again. The Dev's obviously have no clue what a "combat droid" is.
"making utility droids that benefit players would unbalance the game" - Wake up morons the game is already unbalanced. when you started babying Jedi toons and other professions and forgetting to fix the basics that need fixing.
the only time DE as a profession became important was when droids were bveing considered for COMBAT.
Get a clue.
Kilarny
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:03 pm
#86
/pointat TheRealTK421
Keep your hat on fella. No need to confuse things. I'll take over the SnideMaster position if I feel it's really required...or we can find other volunteers.
Kilarny
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:06 pm
#87
AudioOrgana wrote:
[.......]
This is what happened. The Devs never said, "You have these choices :", it was always cryptic messages and long periods of slience.
And we never ever ever said we wanted a Droid Handling (Liver and onions), we simply said we didn't want to become a hybird (turkey on rye) because we thought we could have certifications (the hamburger, which Raph Koster recomended in the first place, and what we really wanted when we ordered).
Now, that we FINALLY found out about the options, yes, those opinons have shifted only because we didn't have any idea what was really available to fill our plates.
Audio
Cheeseburger! No Pepsi, Coke! Cheeseburger cheeseburger cheeseburger!
Arcid
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:25 pm
#88
AudioOrgana: I agree with your analogy (would've put up something similar but I'm trying not to flame) WhatI meant is that in terms of damage from combat modules vs number of utility modules in probots, we've got the same balance as before as far asI can tell. The armour nerf is still annoying though (Wish we had the option to put armour in combat module slots instead of a combat module)
duncje
Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:05 pm
#89
AudioOrgana wrote:
Arcid wrote:
progman63, A few responses, please don't take this as a flame, it's no intended as such.
DE say they want more individuality with droid models so that all droids aren't the exact same thing but with different chassis.
So the devs implement the combat modules so droids need to be dedicated to either service or combat (i.e. individuality).
"Bad devs! Bad!" we scold. "Now we can't produce probots with full damage, 40% resist, and all possible crafting stations!"
I think you're reading too much into a small but vocal minority on this point, most of the DEs can see that they can craft Probots with a greater variaty of utility vs combat, with the same relative values as the current adv probot in terms of combat vs utility
I believe you may be refering to me here.
First, progman's creative facts show he has little to no knowldge of the DE profession or what has actually gone on in the past few months, so take anything he says with a grain of salt.
He clearly misunderstood the very minor point, but allow me to clarify.
There were two markets for Probots : 1) people who wanted what amounted to a very minor tank, and 2) people who liked/needed a tougher chassis for their utility modules. Both of those uses go out the window with this patch. Period.
Progman also completely misrepresented the entire situation, which was more like this :
You go into a diner which has no menus and the waiter tellsyou for an hour he'll be right with you, you're his next priority!
When he finally comes around, he says, "Yo, you want a turkey on rye?"
You say, "No, actually, I'd like..." and then he zones out and misses you telling him what you want.
He returns, another hour later, and puts a plate of liver and onions down in front of you.
"This isn't what I ordered," you say. He says, "Well, you said you didn't want Turkey on Rye!"
This is what happened. The Devs never said, "You have these choices :", it was always cryptic messages and long periods of slience.
And we never ever ever said we wanted a Droid Handling (Liver and onions), we simply said we didn't want to become a hybird (turkey on rye) because we thought we could have certifications (the hamburger, which Raph Koster recomended in the first place, and what we really wanted when we ordered).
Now, that we FINALLY found out about the options, yes, those opinons have shifted only because we didn't have any idea what was really available to fill our plates.
Audio
Wow. Great explanation, Audio.
I couldn't agree more.
Mightion
Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:16 pm
#90
And the moral to the story is, in regards to Publish 7...
"This is NOT a broiled hamburger! I ordered a broiled hamburger!"
AudioOrgana
Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:56 pm
#91
Arcid wrote:
AudioOrgana: I agree with your analogy (would've put up something similar but I'm trying not to flame) WhatI meant is that in terms of damage from combat modules vs number of utility modules in probots, we've got the same balance as before as far asI can tell. The armour nerf is still annoying though (Wish we had the option to put armour in combat module slots instead of a combat module)
Right, but as I said earlier, it wasn't about the OFFENSIVE capabilities, it was the DEFENSIVE capabilities.
I fully understand that it will be possible to trade damage for utility - this is absoultely fine.
However, what I have been trying to say is that people wanted them in that chassis not because it was the "best of both worlds" - combat and utility - it was because the droid simply could take more damage if they took it out in a hostile situation. Most of them didn't even use the attack command, it was besides the point.
Example : a combat medic who needs a droid out for whatever reason - if he was out with an R2 on the battlefield it would be killed very quickly because of it's low HAM and it's much less manuverable than a flying droid. These players prefered their utility modules in a droid with good armor that could fly and keep up with them and not get shot down by their enemies in one shot.
So yes, the damage output is roughly the same as it is now - but the fact is, these players don't care about damage, they care about the ability for the droid to not get blown up the first time something shoots at it.
Those who used it as a mini-tank weren't caring about it's damage either - actually, lower damage is better in that case because it means you get more XP.
That's been my point all along - simply that the market we already had for Probots, people that used it as a mini-tank and those that used it for it's defensive advantages are no longer going to see those benefits.
Audio