Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Publish 7 Update
duncje wrote:
And not only are they less effective tanks than before, they now cannot carry any utility modules if you want the combat benefits. This probably will hurt my business, rather than help it. I'm convinced the only reason I sold Probots was the combined utility/combat aspect they carried, and now this multipurpose aspect is gone as well.
AudioOrgana wrote:
And that's the double-edged vibroblade here - not only can a Probot not do what it could before (be an effective tank), but it is going to cost constant upkeep in consumables. Now in order to use a droid properly you need to carry batteries, stimpacks, and reconstruction kits (unless someone else with you has a repair droid).
Fully agree on this as well.
I switched over to only carrying Probots on my vendors a while back - say Novemeber.
I did it partially because I was sick to death of putting a dozen or more Master Artisan parts in a droid, but in terms of customers it became quite clear the reasons why people bought one.
They either wanted a decent little tank (rifleman liked it a lot), or they wanted a tough-er droid to take out as a combat medic/etc for utility modules.
Now, neither of those things are going to be available without substantial investment and annoyance - and even then, not at it's previous level (which most people considered gimped as it was).
I just don't think there are hordes of people out there waiting for a Creature Pet with a metallic skin - which is exactly what this is becoming. We said we wanted people to have the choice - the choice between two types of pets, not two types of skins.
Audio
(edit: clarification of term)
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 03-11-2004 04:06 PM
Reading all this, I'm once again glad I decided to mainly specialize in astromech droids. I've made less than six probots, two of them for myself. I couldn't make probots until well after the initial nerf. I do, however, have six advanced Probot chassis made in preparation of publish 7, but it sounds like the armor modules might as well be fiberplast panels. 
Maybe the schematics will change and we won't need composite armor segments for armor modules with no armor rating anymore...
I won't build astromechs with combat modules either, or protocols. Geez, who ever heard of Threepio picking up a blaster? Or slugging a mob with his ditanium arm?
and 17 people out of 18 replies thought we were getting "real" combat droids any day now.
This is what I'm really concerned about. I'm afraid every person I encounter after the patch will ask, "So what kick-butt droid can you make for me now?".
Or what I've been asked before "Can you make me a good combat droid."
I've told them the stats on the current droid and they've always responded that it stinks and they'll come back after the devs revise them. I could always point out that the droids took one heck of a beating and kept on ticking! When grouping with guildmates I'd constantly point out how great the probot was because it held off 2 fambaa AT THE SAME TIME while we fought 2 or 3 others.
Now I'll be turning it around...yeah, they can't tank but wow can they *cough* put out the damage.
Are the old ones automatically going up in damage (as well as down in AR)? That would tick off the customer even more all the stats on old probots went down the hole.
I'd rather have 1k HAM with the old armor then 2800 HAM and just 20% resists.
Kollos wrote:
Exactly.
We're losing the key selling point of the old Probot - that it was a good tank. Even with stims, the new Probot is not a good tank because it basically requires one player to babysit it to keep it alive. The old Probot could tank enough damage that it was useful to hold targets at a distance while the player killed them. The fact that it couldn't be healed kept that tanking ability under control and required that players have multiple Probots to use and the ability to call them (normally at least Novice Scout). Best of all, the PLAYER did all of the killing and reaped the experience for it. The old Probot was ideal for helping players level up (or at least those who didn't want to macro their way up).
The new Probot can't tank effectively because it will take too much damage too quickly. Thus the player will be required to keep the Probot alive, which means the player is not doing the killing. At least Creature Handlers gain some experience when their creatures kill targets... Droid Engineers aren't going to get that from their Droids.
The Probot and CL 10 pets used to be distinct - the Probot could tank and pets could do decent damage. Now the Probot is just a metal pet.
And that's the double-edged vibroblade here - not only can a Probot not do what it could before (be an effective tank), but it is going to cost constant upkeep in consumables. Now in order to use a droid properly you need to carry batteries, stimpacks, and reconstruction kits (unless someone else with you has a repair droid).
The extra damage is nice, it's just too bad, as Kollos put, they now need to be babysat.
Regardless of how these changes academically sound (we know the Devs have an intense need to make players tanks, and this seems to add to that), most players are going to scoff at the whole deal, and those that currently use them are going to be MAJORLY PO'd (which, as usual, we get to take the complaints for - I will send them to the boards, LOL).
I sell a lot of Probots - I know what people want and are looking for. I took an informal e-mail poll of 20 people who have bought Probots from me in the last weeks - 18 replied, and only one of them understood the situation. I gave no information, just asked questions - and 17 people out of 18 replies thought we were getting "real" combat droids any day now.
People are expecting Droidekas, and we are handing them a severely defensively weakened Probot and a booster shot...well, my vendor will attempt to hand them, as I plan on being way out in the middle of nowhere after I stock 'em.
Maybe even on another Galaxy, LOL.
Audio
(edit : one too many Audio's 
)
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 03-11-2004 03:18 PM
And not only are they less effective tanks than before, they now cannot carry any utility modules if you want the combat benefits. This probably will hurt my business, rather than help it. I'm convinced the only reason I sold Probots was the combined utility/combat aspect they carried, and now this multipurpose aspect is gone as well.
AudioOrgana wrote:
And that's the double-edged vibroblade here - not only can a Probot not do what it could before (be an effective tank), but it is going to cost constant upkeep in consumables. Now in order to use a droid properly you need to carry batteries, stimpacks, and reconstruction kits (unless someone else with you has a repair droid).
I'd think, from a money-making aspect, this is kind of a good thing. It means 2 droid sales instead of one. One for 'utility' and one for combat.
duncje wrote:
And not only are they less effective tanks than before, they now cannot carry any utility modules if you want the combat benefits. This probably will hurt my business, rather than help it. I'm convinced the only reason I sold Probots was the combined utility/combat aspect they carried, and now this multipurpose aspect is gone as well.
AudioOrgana wrote:
And that's the double-edged vibroblade here - not only can a Probot not do what it could before (be an effective tank), but it is going to cost constant upkeep in consumables. Now in order to use a droid properly you need to carry batteries, stimpacks, and reconstruction kits (unless someone else with you has a repair droid).
I understand the trepidation on the Probots. I have yet to really give mine on TC a whirl, so I want to reserve making any comment until I've had a chance to put it through its paces myself.
/bow
Respectfully,
progman63 wrote:
Boy am I friggin confused now.
And I bet at this point so are the devs.
When the topic of combat droids first came up in theold DE plan with "DE only combat modules" it was assumed the skills would be added to the DE skill tree.
That sure produced an awful rucus in the DE community - "We don't want to be a hybrid profession". So a seperate profession to use combat droids was proposed to the devs by the DE community.
One of the main reasons for the lack of support for a hybrid profession was that we were still labouring under the assumption that the combat droids were going to be distributed by a cert system, and so at that point the question "Do you DE to be a hybrid profession?" was recieved as being much akin to "Do you want to change the way combat droids are distributed so that the only people who can use them are the ones who can build them" which looked like a swing from a good market potental to no market potental
Then the devs announce a proposed seperate profession for using combat droids - suggested by the DE community - and everyone starts screaming bloody murder.
First off, I have to say that prior to the big Droid Handler Announcement, the only time I'd seen the Droid handler idea on the forums was on the occasions people suggested it as a method for combat droids to see if the otherDEs would support it, every time that happened there was a vast majority against the idea of a Droid handler profession
DE adamantly insist that combat droids shouldn't just be copies of CH/BE pets with new skins. They need to differentiate themselves from other combat pets. "Maybe if droids had lower armor but higher damage to compensate".
So the devs develop combat modules for CL10 droids that produce lower armor but higher damage to compensate.
And now DE cry "This is crap! We can't tank with droids anymore!"
Well, last time I checked most CH/BE pets were used as tanks.
Well, I have to say that I can't recall seeing anyone saying that they want a droid to have lower armour but higher damage, basicly most were requesting that the effective HAMand the combat output be rebalanced. To most people Armour was one of the few things that did differientiate droids from creature pets, and so the current change isbasicly turning droids into a much closer imitation of creature pets
DE say they want more individuality with droid models so that all droids aren't the exact same thing but with different chassis.
So the devs implement the combat modules so droids need to be dedicated to either service or combat (i.e. individuality).
"Bad devs! Bad!" we scold. "Now we can't produce probots with full damage, 40% resist, and all possible crafting stations!"
I think you're reading too much into a small but vocal minority on this point, most of the DEs can see that they can craft Probots with a greater variaty of utility vs combat, with the same relative values as the current adv probot in terms of combat vs utility
DE tell the devs that they, and their customers, have wanted combat droids since release.
So the devs arrange the "Droid Invasion" to release combat droids. Maybe not Droidekas right off the bat, but perhaps soon.
And the DE community screams "This is crap! We don't want combat droids! We want utility droids! Scrap the invasion!"
Now DE are saying they, and their customers, want Droidekas and other combat droids - again.
Most DEs were complaining about the Droid Handler profession, including the fact that if the Devs went ahead with a new profession most of us could predict virtually no fixes or corrections to the actual function of the things that we could make. I have to admit that I was also surprised by the announcement that most people wanted utility droids
DE say this, devspropose this, DE cry.
DE say that, devspropose that, DE cry.
DEsay the other, devspropose the other, DE cry.
There is something I would like to say, but I'm going to refrain in the spirit of better communication with the Devs
I see a very detrimental pattern here.
I don't think the problem is so much that the devs don't listen as much as DE can't decide what the heck it is they want.
I'll agree that not allDE issues have always been communicated to the devs with the utmost clarity.
I think that this is in fact one of the key problems, the miscommunications may have had slight effects in most cases, but in the particular case the miscommunication was on what our options were for the overarching future of the profession, with the result that many of us found that in saying no to one option we had been interprited as saying yes to another option that we hadn't known about.
But the devs receive issues, suggestions,and wish lists from the community, evaluate the possibility of implementing various features, prioritize them depending on how they will affect the entire player base, and develop plans for releasing them.
Only to get repeatedly kicked in the teeth for their effort.
I'd have to say that no matter how well intentioned (I'm refering to the DH proposals here) the Devs should be told when they've misinterprited what the community has said to such an extent
At this point, it would almost be better if they just stopped listening to the community- push features live that fit into the overall design of the game and benefitted the majority of the player base.
That's not what I'd really like to see.
But at least we'd get droid content into the game now, and tweak what needed to be adjusted afterwards.
At least we'd see something instead of nothing.
Or a mangled up mess designed by comittee.
progman63 wrote:
Boy am I friggin confused now.
And I bet at this point so are the devs.
DE say they want more individuality with droid models so that all droids aren't the exact same thing but with different chassis.
So the devs implement the combat modules so droids need to be dedicated to either service or combat (i.e. individuality).
"Bad devs! Bad!" we scold. "Now we can't produce probots with full damage, 40% resist, and all possible crafting stations!"
DE say this, devspropose this, DE cry.
DE say that, devspropose that, DE cry.
DEsay the other, devspropose the other, DE cry.
I see a very detrimental pattern here.
I don't think the problem is so much that the devs don't listen as much as DE can't decide what the heck it is they want.
