Droid Engineer Archive

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Tal-N wrote:

Ok, I went and ran some tests on the live server, here are the results. (Probot stats used for this test: 820 HAM, medium armor, 40% to everything. 28% accuracy and 70-80 damage every 2.47 seconds. DPS is therefore 32. Effective kinetic damage HAM is 5466)

Whoa.. Look at your math some.
70-80 damge over 2.47 seconds is 30 dps not 32.
32 is from using 80 damage.
Don't fudge your data, it's bad form!

The first test was a probot vs a rabid shaupant (CL9) as you can expect the shaupant totally had it's butt handed to it. Simulation results would have been as follows:

Actual HAM is 900, effective HAM vs energyis also 900. DPS for this animal is 45.

Rabid shaupant takes 121 seconds to kill probot.

Probot takes 28 seconds.

Probot will take a maximum of 1260 points of damage within the fight, naturally it's spread across several pools by the raio of 3:2:1. Mind therefore should suffer around 113 points of damage to the health bar. And the result was.... 91 points of health damage (729/819, 1pt wound)


Following your 3:2:1 ratio I get about 15 dps on the health bar So that's 60 seconds for the probot to get through the 900 health.

And then assuming that your 45 dps is correct.
Using the same 3:2:1 ratio. That's 22.5 dps on the health bar.
Now taking into account the 40% resists that makes this
13.5 dps. Then that will get through 820 Health in 60.740 seconds. That sounds about even to me.

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=46555

This means that the droid is certainly not CL10 for starters, however since it's only fair to let DEs compete with bio-engineers who make pets better than wild CL equivilents it's only fair to give them the same CL13-15 stats at a CL10 rating. So it's to be expected that a CL9 was totally devestated. A fight with a CL14 should be very very close though since they SHOULD be more or less evenly matched.

Round 2...

Probot vs a Peko Peko (CL14)

Actual health was 2329. No energy resistance so it's still 2329. Max DPS for this was 80.

Peko Peko takes 68 seconds to kill probot.

Probot takes 72 seconds to kill Peko Peko.

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=46556

As you can see thisshould have been a very close fight, going either way because of only a 4 seconddifference.However the fact is that the probot won this by a fairly comfortable margin. Final result... 193/817, 3pts of wound. Repeated tests wouldn't have mattered since another Peko Peko would need to cause another 607points of damage to that single pool, this Peko Peko already had slightly above average HAM but repeated tests would have given the same result in my opinon.

Before I get into the data crunching. If you are trying to do this scientifically and you aren't *repeating* your experiments, then that pretty much doesn't make your results worth much.

Ok. 80 dps following the standard ratio is 40 dps to health.
After the resistance it is now 24 dps which kills the probot in about 34.16 seconds.

Now the probot has 15 dps as calculated earlier. So
it gets through the health bar in about 155.26 seconds.

I think we have a clear winner here.

I did test the probot against a CL22 Shaupant Hunter. As expected it got it's metalbutt kicked.

Round 3... the Title Fight...

Probot vs (Samish) A Male Swamp Tusk Cat (CL17)

Actual health is 3900, effective vs energy is 3105. Max DPS is 90.

(Samish) takes 60 seconds to kill Probot.

Probot takes 97 seconds to kill (Samish)

Ok we've already established that the probot has a 15 dps to health. So that kills this guy in 207 seconds (using the 3105 health).

Now this guys does 90 dps which becomes 45 dps to health before resistance. After resistance it becomes 27 dps.
And so with the 820 health of a probot he's gone in about
30.37 seconds. And I do agree that this guy wins.

http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=46558

Here can see thatthe probotwould wear away 2/3 of the tuskcats HAM from the simulation, that is actually what happened. Samish was cut down to around 1000 points of his health at which point he actually ran away. The probot was left with a splinter of health at 26 (effectively 81 points which wouldn't have been enough to win) but the result did surprize me as he did far more damage to the pet than expected.

So in the evidence here shows two things. The simulations were actually fairly accurate using just the crude basis of dps and effective HAM. Naturally it doesn't take counteract, evading and accuracy into account however those are minor figures since both mobs have more or less equal stats in that respect. From what I can tell a droid cannot counteract however they do have high evasion skills to counter that shortcoming. The second thing is shows is that the current combat droids are nicely balanced, somewhere between CL14 and CL17 meaning they are actually better than clones by a slight margin.

But my concern isn't with the current ones so much as it is the new ones with the additional HAM and a higher DPS. The simulations show they'd manage to survive a fight with a CL20 mob. The simulations with this current probot also match what actually happens with a small margin of error. What makes you think that the simulations for the new probots will be any different than what actually happens?

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Yes, it would need to be a dozen times for things like the peko peko and the male swamp tusk cat since the results were showing that given a bit of luck it could have gone either way. But that is how I know that the current probots are around that rating since equally matched enemies almost kill one another. The probot totally ripped through that lone rapid shaupant though with little or no damage to itself as you can see so there is no need to repeat that endlessly. This is my point, CL ratings are FIXED per species as is there power. That is why if i threw the male tusk cats against the peko peko, it would win but with significant damage. If I threw the peko peko against the shaupant it would win with a significant amount of HAM left. Working within the bio-pet biz even as far back into beta I've seen the CL rating system develop into what it is today, I watch animals fighting each other when I'm out sampling and by simply looking at their CL you can count how many are against each other and know the outcome well in advance. Put simply, CL = Power.

Yes, sorry I was confusing you. I play on the TC alot so I don't think of it as being what will be but what currently is. Looking at the stats for the probot and the current information it does need to be nerf'd or the power of CL10 pets needed to be increased once that patch goes live. In reguards to the issue with someones live serverprobot killing their dewback it raised a seperate issue to do within the bio-engineer profession which has no connection to the droids except that provided a wonderful baseline test.

So yeah, current probots good (they're CL15-16 as they should be). New probots bad, overpowered far too much.

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Tal-N wrote:

For starters I'm a Ranger and can see their 'To Hit' chance which is accuracy. The majority of mobs in the CL15-25 ranges are all around 30-35%. I use SWGcreatures.com's own database for the DPS calculations. You can also check the To Hit on the datapad for the pets.

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SkyeDarkangel wrote:

Unless this game has magical random values, 500 HAM is 500 HAM, and 30% accuracy is 30% accuracy. You can run a thousand tests, but equal chances will always just come closer and closer to an equal value.

Sorry, he ran thourough tests, right now a Probot is overpowered for it's rating, it will only get moreso after the Publish. I don't like it, and I'd addmittedly like the Probots to be even stronger. The point is facts are facts and we can't just keep telling someone with numberial proof and then actual test data that he's wrong because he's wrong or because they didn't do "enough" tests.

However, the Probot has several issues pets don't have. There are different ways to heal wounds, chance to be destroyed on incap (dunno if this is still active) and the constant need for Batteries.

I also believe that somewhere in the updates Probots were likened to Peko Peko's by the Devs (confirmation / disprove please).

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Skye, I didn't say his tests weren't thorough. The game doesn't have "magical random values" but it does have random values. To-hit, damage, evade, etc., are allreliant on random number generators and anytime randomnumbers come into the picture, multiple tests are necessary to establish a baseline.

One thing we should keep in mind, is that the Combat Balance (tm) is still in process and the higher powered probot may be to keep it in line with this balance, or it may not, there's no way of telling until it's finished...

I don't care how much he massages numbers. The fact is this is a STAR WARS game !!! STAR WARS !!! Oh, one more time?? STAR WARS !!!

We have gone through 8 months of creatures plodding through town, shaking screens, eating mobs alive. Game Magazines and Web Reviewers get on this game to do a review and see a town full of creatures and not a droid in sight. How is this a star wars game ?? The developers had it ass backwards from the very beginning and now all the negative reviews and pissed off players are changing their mind.

The game needs to get back into the STAR WARS feel, and if takes making a probot better than a pet to get some droids into the game, so be it. You can still sell your LVL 70 Kimogila's that do strong poison and knock down. You can still sell your pet stims, chef specialties and bio cloth. DE's have had nothing much at all since the launch of the game and it is about time we did !!!

GO AWAY TAL. The Bio thread on this very same subject is telling DE's to go away, so take your own professions advice and GO AWAY !!

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SkyeDarkangel wrote:

Unless this game has magical random values, 500 HAM is 500 HAM, and 30% accuracy is 30% accuracy. You can run a thousand tests, but equal chances will always just come closer and closer to an equal value.

Sorry, he ran thourough tests, right now a Probot is overpowered for it's rating, it will only get moreso after the Publish. I don't like it, and I'd addmittedly like the Probots to be even stronger. The point is facts are facts and we can't just keep telling someone with numberial proof and then actual test data that he's wrong because he's wrong or because they didn't do "enough" tests.

However, the Probot has several issues pets don't have. There are different ways to heal wounds, chance to be destroyed on incap (dunno if this is still active) and the constant need for Batteries.

I also believe that somewhere in the updates Probots were likened to Peko Peko's by the Devs (confirmation / disprove please).

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never said he was flat out wrong, but he is exageratting his arguments and was being consistently vagueabout where the numbers werecoming from. I agreed thatthe probotsmore powerful than every CL10 pet I've seen. Never disagreed with that. Couldn't follow his argument though because it was innacurately phrased and left important points unspoken.

Another thing to consider: can creature pets be buffed? I don't actually now. But it makes a huge difference if they can.

Only a rule lawyer could walk in and dare say a probot is overpowered.

This has got to be the stupidest argument i have ever seen in the history of this forum.

Lets just assume you're right and a probot is CL20 instead of CL10. So what? What do you want to do about it? Why do you think ranting here is going to affect anything? What does it matter to you?Hell, since two pets can be out, its not even like you're going to lose business. So who cares? You can call a probot CL100 and it still would die in 3 hits against creatures an elite profession would hunt, let alone pvp.

Thats a VERY good point. Not only can pets be buffed by Doctors, but there are several Foods (some very powerful, like 1300 to Health action and mind) that can buff pets.

Pets DO have several advantages over pets. I guess overall Probots are even with CL10 pets when you consider you CANNOT buff or enhance droids in any way. Even a CL10 Pet can get a Master Doctor's buff or some Chef food to increase thier HAM. Probots also require battery power.

Sorry for doubting the droid equality guys!

Even if a new Probot can be classified as CL20, it gains none of the advantages of pets, while pets have less limitations than a droid. Since there's no way to classify CL, the Dev's can only be refering to it in a very general sense.

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| Skye Blueriver:                                     | 
| Master Droid Engineer & Master Weaponsmith          |
| Lost City on Naboo, Lowca : Vendors at 3660 5667    |
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The magical numbers are called resistances and armor. Think of it this way, the HAM defines how much damage something can take before being destroyed. Without any resistances or armor if something is 500 HAM then it takes a minimum of 500 damage to destory it. Armor makes the object tougher, there's two ways to look at that. You can either say it makes the enemy cause less damage or you can say the object takes more damage. That is where 'effective' HAM comes in since you're working out how much damage someone has to now cause to it when you take the protections into consideration. 500 HAM becomes 1000 effectiveHAM because light amor gives 50% protection. Work it out like 500/0.50 = 1000. That is why I use time as a measure of how long it takes to defeat something as the first one to wear the HAM down wins. Armor slows the process by meaning the object needs to be hit more often.