Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Hybrid DE Discussion: Melee Balance

DigitalOne
Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:42 pm
#66
Well, your right, but the way the profession is set up now most of the subcomponents are in the Blueprints tree, which makes it really easy for them to create a good combat droid, since basicaly thats what they need. Construction and production deal with mainly utility.


Parts are spread out, but if we want to make this work you have to spread out the parts more than they already are. It dosent make sense thatsubcomponents are under blueprints anyway, these subcomponents should be spread out even more than they already are. And of coarse the best of the combat droids must be under master slot.


You do have to face the facts, quite a number of people will seek the proffession to augment there combat skills and their income, its the way its going to be. Or atleast they way we invision it. Combat droids must be increadibly difficult to make, but worth theircost at the same time. I do see people mastering droid engineer and something like Rifleman at the same time to make a new usefull template.


What we have to do is find a way to discourage combat classes and grinders from seeking Master DE, or choseing a 2nd columb. The way we have it set up, it would be in there best interests to do so.



Gyros
Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:42 pm
#67










Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:




DiLune wrote:



I think the combat droid certs should be included in all novice combat elite boxes (including SL, Commando and BH.) That solves your problem of melee vs range. It doesn't actually add any power in particular to any of those professions. Why? You cert the ability to use the CL10-13 basic combat droid there. (people could already have a CL10 pet at this point.) So you haven't added any power to the professions unless theythen go up the DE 0040 line to get higher CL droids.


Many combat elite already have scout SP spent for harvesting and movement mods. It doesn't take that much more over what they already spent to go up into CH and pick up some pet power. Crossing into artisan does not lend itself to combat capabilities so that is where a combat modeled player's "dead" SP would be hanging. (the tradeoff checkers analogy.)


The prof that suffers though is the BH because for him to cross into DE to get droid levels is almost crippling under this model. (By that I mean the Proposed Droid Hybrid in general, not my particular proposal.)


(Had to addanother item. Many many combat people spend 9 SP to get range support 3 anyway for warningshot. They are really only giving up 5 SP to get to range support 4 if that is a requirement.)

Message Edited by DiLune on 03-26-2004 09:19 AM


Message Edited by DiLune on 03-26-2004 09:22 AM



Interesting proposal. I'd like to see the math on this -- how many skillpoints involved for how many pet lvls and how much exp it would take to get there.


Without those numbers, we're in a gray area of balance. We need to have a black and white plan with solid numbers. Pls help us out with doing the math. I am horrible at math.








Novice Elite Brawler and Marksman skills are 35 skill points to earn... Adding in the DE 0040 at a cost of 54 more skill points...
So89 Skill points to have MAX combat Droid Capability at novice level... (please check my math) Mastering an Elite Combat in Marksman and Brawler is 92 Skill points + 54 Skill points for DE 0040 would make it 146 skill points to be a master elite Brawler or marksman skill with max Combat droid capability...


The BH profession would be hurt worst of all... If a player masters BH that takes 217 Skill points... This does not allow enough skill points to even make novice DE...
Commando however is only 169 skill points to master... which would allow for Master commando and DE 0040 at 223 skill points total... This in and of itself is a balance issue... But fear not here is a Compromise to balance the checkers....


Add DE 0040 skill pluses for combat droids to BH Investigation Tree and +1 Combat Droid to the Investigation 1 Skill ... I know the flaming will start here... "Why do the BH's get Combat Droids built in to their skill but we don't will cry the other professions..." To answer this here is why SKILL POINTS The BH stands NO CHANCE of getting higher level combat droids... But the BH profession is forced to Buy Seeker and probe droids for the investigation tree wich is based on Bounty Hunter XP, all other skill lines are based on specific weapons XP... They have to use droids, therefore the knowledge gained in using BH droids (and the cost of buying them) adds to the Combat droid usage knowledge... The DE0040 skills could be dispersed through out the BH profession or just placed in the investigation tree.... I suggest the investigation Line myself...


Add Suggestions and Comments.... NO FLAMING PLEASE




For the Galaxies best droids Contact;
Eaco Fotas Master Droid Engineer, Master Artisan on Corbantis
The Outer Limits Emporium (-4995,5323) Theed, Naboo
" These ARE The Droids Your Looking For! "
JavelinCatcher
Sat Mar 27, 2004 8:37 pm
#68




Gyros wrote:










Novice Elite Brawler and Marksman skills are 35 skill points to earn... Adding in the DE 0040 at a cost of 54 more skill points...
So89 Skill points to have MAX combat Droid Capability at novice level... (please check my math) Mastering an Elite Combat in Marksman and Brawler is 92 Skill points + 54 Skill points for DE 0040 would make it 146 skill points to be a master elite Brawler or marksman skill with max Combat droid capability...


The BH profession would be hurt worst of all... If a player masters BH that takes 217 Skill points... This does not allow enough skill points to even make novice DE...
Commando however is only 169 skill points to master... which would allow for Master commando and DE 0040 at 223 skill points total... This in and of itself is a balance issue... But fear not here is a Compromise to balance the checkers....


Add DE 0040 skill pluses for combat droids to BH Investigation Tree and +1 Combat Droid to the Investigation 1 Skill ... I know the flaming will start here... "Why do the BH's get Combat Droids built in to their skill but we don't will cry the other professions..." To answer this here is why SKILL POINTS The BH stands NO CHANCE of getting higher level combat droids... But the BH profession is forced to Buy Seeker and probe droids for the investigation tree wich is based on Bounty Hunter XP, all other skill lines are based on specific weapons XP... They have to use droids, therefore the knowledge gained in using BH droids (and the cost of buying them) adds to the Combat droid usage knowledge... The DE0040 skills could be dispersed through out the BH profession or just placed in the investigation tree.... I suggest the investigation Line myself...


Add Suggestions and Comments.... NO FLAMING PLEASE





Well, the +1 Combat Droid would still fall in Range Support 4. The Bounty Hunters have that. The issue is whatever "skills"/"modifiers" appear in DE 0/0/4/0. Following your math, I would not be adverse to duplicating those in the BH Investigation tree. Lets look at the concerquences of doing that though:


1) By default, a MasterBounty Hunter gets a additional combat droid....which btw, I may not be all that hard pressed to be against doing so. Most Bounty Hunters I know have taken up Creature Handler at some point to help them with the Investigation tree. In fact, this would be a perfect way to incorporate a "IG-series" combat droid that many people would have liked to see. I'm not saying where in the tree that would be; I'm just saying it would be appropriate. Star Wars "Lore" Bounty Hunters often worked with partners. To be honest, Bobba and Jengo were the exception to the rule rather than the baseline. It seems fit that experienced Bounty Hunters get a combat droid "partner." How does this fit in with game mechanics? Just by nature their marks are a bit tough to take out anyway. Most Bounty Hunters I know have taken up Creature Handler to assist in taking out their marks. It only seems fit to me that theybe using droid companions rather than creatures. Possibly you could condense the skills/modifiers into Investigation 3 & 4 (asBH already have increased modifiers in their trees weapons trees already).


2) This gives a small alternative to get combat droids to those who simply don't want to take up a crafting profession. It is more however, more expensive skill point wise(77 for Master Marksman, 77 for Master Scout, 6 for Novice BH,14for Investigation4). These folks also don't have any way to build their own droids...so again, that puts another Bounty Hunterdependancy on us. I'm not sure if they would go for that or yell at us for suggesting this.


3) It still doesn't solve the "melee inequity problem." Which to be honest, I'm starting to think that if a melee character really wants combat droids, they can spend the 29 extra skill points for Novice Marksman and Range support 4. It's not completly worthless to them as they also get the melee/range defense bonuses fromthere as well. Is it the best use of a melee person's skill points? possibly not. I've found people make some interesting decisions about where to spend their skill points.




----Nolhta Fyoen----Master Rifleman/Master Smugger----StarStrider
----Nolhta Fyoen----Master Droid Engineer----TestCenter
----Accoubacca----TKA/Commando---TestCenter
----Nolhta Fyoen----Master Droid Engineer----Gorath

CUAlpha: Team Droid Engineer
Neakyn
Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:28 pm
#69
hi guys


just cross read the whole thing here


and found some points where i could say that you forget something


u want that there are more droids out there and less pets


so there are few things you should remember


point 1)


if u want everyone to get ranged support 4 to get an combat droid the whole thing sucks up


there should be an level "10" combat droid maximum for the standard player like it behaves with pets


so the actuall combat droids fits pretty good in this roll as level 10 droids

evtl 1 or 2 more modells to make it optical more attractive


point 2)


yes there must be a growing tree where u can learn to controll more and higher level droids from skill to skill


the idea to put it in de 0040 is nice but what do u think about a Droid Squad Leader


ranged support 4 would bea nice start for it

on the other hand there could be engineering 4 as other prerequisite


so this Droid Squad Leader can handle a bit like a Creature Handler/Squad Leader mix who learns in 1 tree to controll stronger droids (for expl. 000x)


in the next tree controll more droids (for expl 00x0)

from a standard of 1 combat droid everyone can controll, to a max of 2 or 3 droids (what ever the balancing says at the end)


a third tree could be the possibility to give all controlled droids commands at once, for expl. this things from the squad leader tree where everyone attacks 1 target given by the SL, in this way should the DSL able to handle with his droid (expl 0x00)


in the last tree could be some tactical things like formation and so on


the alternative to this is


every player can handle a level 10 droid


set prerequisite higher for de, so an droid eng HAVE TO be a master artisan before he even can raise to novice DE


this makes sense in case that every de is in need of havingmaster artisan

+ it makes the de not so easy reachable


and then implent the CH features into DE tree i think the droid level (which means which level can have my droids) should be implented into the Blueprints tree cause there makes it the most sense


and give MDE a plus 1 bonus for max of controllable droids but second droid is not allowed to be higher then level 10 (so we take the dev her wind of his sails bla bla imbalanced bla bla) and first at MDE the highest droid classes possible to controll (for example an droidica would fit perfect in the roll of a level 35 droid if his stats are fit into this)


i think the alternate is even better for every DE out there and makes the most sense


cause who even can controll droids better then their builders ? i dont know, cause nothin else makes sense to me
Neakyn
Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:43 pm
#70
sorry forgot to say something important for my master artisan prerequiste to de and put ch like skills for droids into the de tree


one very important argument allready said in this thread and would really fit nice into it


if Bounty Hunters collaborate with DEs instead of CHs it would fit perfect into the system i prefer


and anyway it is the easiest way to implent it into the existing system/skill tree for the devs


i think this deal with the devs is really going to be balanced in compare with an CH who can controll 15+k HAM pets and havent spended that much skillpoints into like an MDE have to


on the other hand really important thing is an master artisan MDE have no possibillity to get an hardcore profession like bounty hunter or commando or something like that and just able to claim an less harder profession in fighting like carbineer or something like that


the devs allways say that level 30-35 droids would be imbalanced

but if we show them that there are no imbalances in compare with CH

we dont have to make some new profession or something like that and the just could make it my described way within the de skill tree who needs master artisan for it
Daker-Naritus
Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:05 pm
#71




AudioOrgana wrote:






Daker-Naritus wrote:


...(This) proposal is almost EXACTLY the same thing TH proposed the first time (his first attempt, not the second Droid Handler Profession proposal), and well over 80% of DEs hated it because there is nothing new to sell (only DEs get all the coold droids)...




I guess I missed these posts, mind dropping a link?


The Devs never set forth proposals on ANY of this. The most talk we got about Droid Handler was "DE's overwhelmingly said they wanted..." and nothing more until Runesaber posted his agreement with our assessment of the situation.


AO




Sorry guys, I have been tied up for a bit...


Audio,


I am sorry but you are totally wrong...


A couple of months back (2 correspondents ago) Thunderheart had Sintrosi (the old correspondent) set forth a plan that TH and the devs created that had varying levels of combat modules. The post was called "DE State of the Profession" and everyone went ape**edit** because the plan sucked. Both TH AND Sintrosi announced that the original "State of the Profession" Plan was the direction the developers were taking, until players went crazy.



From what I remember ofthe first planALL droids were given combat modules levels 1-6 (one module per droid) and only the 1-2 level modules were usable by non-DEs. ONLY DEs could use modules 3-6 (I think).


That plan started the whole "droideka movement" within the DE community, because all DEs reasoned "we want something new to sell, if they are improving combat droids we want new models instead of DE-only modules on existing droids." DEs started feverishly pushing for droidekas, battle droids, and super battle droids.


That movement then led to the SECOND Droid plan (Droid Handler) in which devs were (apparently as evidenced by the new models) going to give us droidekas, battle broids, and super battle droids, if AND ONLY IF we agreed to a new droid hander class. We didn't leaving us where we are today.



I looked in vain for the thread and couldn't find it. However if you search for the "DE plan concern" thread and the "state of the profession" thread, you will find the threads Sintrosi and TH started to talk about the first plan. I found a link to the original plan thread in one of the discussion threads and it said the thread had been deleted.


I am assuming that it got deleted to cover up the evidence of TH's imcompetence, and to stop people from flaming him for proposing something he never cleared through DEs.


HOWEVER, if you ask TK, Sodan, or any of the DEs who (like me) have been reading these boards for a long time, they wiull remember what I am talking about, and validate me.



It offends me that you keep asking me to coorborate my posts...




Daker-Naritus
Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:06 pm
#72




AudioOrgana wrote:






Daker-Naritus wrote:


...(This) proposal is almost EXACTLY the same thing TH proposed the first time (his first attempt, not the second Droid Handler Profession proposal), and well over 80% of DEs hated it because there is nothing new to sell (only DEs get all the coold droids)...




I guess I missed these posts, mind dropping a link?


The Devs never set forth proposals on ANY of this. The most talk we got about Droid Handler was "DE's overwhelmingly said they wanted..." and nothing more until Runesaber posted his agreement with our assessment of the situation.


AO




Sorry guys, I have been tied up for a bit...


Audio,


I am sorry but you are totally wrong...


A couple of months back (2 correspondents ago) Thunderheart had Sintrosi (the old correspondent) set forth a plan that TH and the devs created that had varying levels of combat modules. The post was called "DE State of the Profession" and everyone went ape**edit** because the plan sucked. Both TH AND Sintrosi announced that the original "State of the Profession" Plan was the direction the developers were taking, until players went crazy.



From what I remember ofthe first planALL droids were given combat modules levels 1-6 (one module per droid) and only the 1-2 level modules were usable by non-DEs. ONLY DEs could use modules 3-6 (I think).


That plan started the whole "droideka movement" within the DE community, because all DEs reasoned "we want something new to sell, if they are improving combat droids we want new models instead of DE-only modules on existing droids." DEs started feverishly pushing for droidekas, battle droids, and super battle droids.


That movement then led to the SECOND Droid plan (Droid Handler) in which devs were (apparently as evidenced by the new models) going to give us droidekas, battle broids, and super battle droids, if AND ONLY IF we agreed to a new droid hander class. We didn't leaving us where we are today.



I looked in vain for the thread and couldn't find it. However if you search for the "DE plan concern" thread and the "state of the profession" thread, you will find the threads Sintrosi and TH started to talk about the first plan. I found a link to the original plan thread in one of the discussion threads and it said the thread had been deleted.


I am assuming that it got deleted to cover up the evidence of TH's imcompetence, and to stop people from flaming him for proposing something he never cleared through DEs.


HOWEVER, if you ask TK, Sodan, or any of the DEs who (like me) have been reading these boards for a long time, they wiull remember what I am talking about, and validate me.



It offends me that you keep asking me to coorborate my posts...

Daker-Naritus
Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:09 pm
#73




Shian_Tavkin wrote:

Audio


Daker is as usual a little off-planet with any notion that this bears any relationship to any prior proposal by TH or anyone else...and as to his comment about it leading to DE only droids, well he obviously missed the point entirely of the whole proposal when he wrote that.


So, for now, how about we just let Sodan draw up the Hybrid version 3 plan, so that TK can present it (incorporating the solution adressing StGabriel's concerns) and see where we are then.


Let's have peace and decorum eh


Thankyou






Shian,


*grrrrrrrrr*


Can I have permission to call Shian a jerk community? I have already proved that my recollection is right, and that there was a previous dev plan for combat droids.


Why do I continuously get trolled and called "off-planet" for being correct?

Message Edited by Daker-Naritus on 03-29-2004 05:09 PM

Lonkley
Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:52 pm
#74




DigitalOne wrote:

You do have to face the facts, quite a number of people will seek the proffession to augment there combat skills and their income, its the way its going to be. Or atleast they way we invision it. Combat droids must be increadibly difficult to make, but worth theircost at the same time. I do see people mastering droid engineer and something like Rifleman at the same time to make a new usefull template.




A lot of your arguments are protectionism to current DE's, which really has no place in this discussion. The objective is to have MORE interest in DE and in turn that will have more players come to the profession. No one played Chef when it was useless (except the diehards), now that its viable you see new chef's all the time.


Bottom line, if a player is just interested in controlling droids, he will stop with 0-0-4-0 (though he may go 0-0-4-2 then drop blueprint). Combat players want the "best" droid. So they will have to get it from an MDE. The next option is for them to become an MDE. Remember that most combat templates think crafting is lame and boring. its a lot easier to hand over credits (which are in no shortage) to buy a droid than to give up a lot of skill points to make their own (and waiting the time/buying the high cpu resources (which will happen once a desirable product is made from them)). There's more to Master than a title, especially if they actually implement experimentation to mean something. If the person DOES decide to become an MDE, then so be it. They've earned that right to make droids. There's nothing wrong with that.


If things are done properly, that number of Master DE's will grow. That is to be expected and encouraged. Droids wouldnt be as screwed up if the player base was larger than 1%.







----------------
There is a special place in hell for necro posters
AudioOrgana
Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:23 pm
#75




Daker-Naritus wrote:



HOWEVER, if you ask TK, Sodan, or any of the DEs who (like me) have been reading these boards for a long time, they wiull remember what I am talking about, and validate me.



It offends me that you keep asking me to coorborate my posts...






Well, I don't think I "keep" asking you,but when someone makes a blanket statement you do not believe to be true you ask them to back themselves up.

And sorry, despite you telling me I don't know what I am talking about, I still disagree with you.


I remember the posts you were talking about, as I have participated in these boards since before your register date.


However, we NEVER saw a concrete plan about the Droid Handler or any Hybird profession - i.e. skill trees, etc.


There was a tiny bit of detail in Sintrosi's posting regarding the State of DE, but I am talking about REAL information about what a Droid Handler profession would be, not things like how powerful combat modules would possibly be in some future system they may or may not design.


No one ever truly explained how it would work to us, or addressed our concerns -we never saw an actual proposal.


You are right, the community did say at the time we didn't want a hybird, because we did not realize that certifications were not going to happen. That announcement is rather recent compared to all this. Until TH said the words, "DE's overwhelmingly said..." the last thing a red-name said about combat droids was "we are waiting for certifications" by Holocron.


However, we have never seen anything close to resembling an actual proposal regarding any of this - which is chief among the reasons things are such a mess today.


AO




AudioOrgana
Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:39 pm
#76





Daker-Naritus wrote:


I looked in vain for the thread and couldn't find it. However if you search for the "DE plan concern" thread and the "state of the profession" thread, you will find the threads Sintrosi and TH started to talk about the first plan. I found a link to the original plan thread in one of the discussion threads and it said the thread had been deleted.





Yes, it has been deleted. However, if you read this thread :


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=32197&highlight=de+plan#M32197


You will see that what I said above is what virtually everyone else said. This thread is the "DE Plan Concern Thread' where we were asked to discuss only our "concerns". Chief among them? "The plan is too vauge, there really wasn't anything there."


And yes, people said they wanted everyone to use droids, but again, this was all on the basis that certifications for everyone were possible in some way. Very little of that "plan" even had to do with combat droids - it was other promises like medical droids that actually healed and other broad strokes.


So in spite of your proclaimations otherwise, I stand by my word - we have never seen an actual combat droid, hybird or droid handler, proposal, ever. It was mentioned as one small component of the thread, and was thought to be a bad idea -but we have never seen anything concrete that even approaches 1/10th of the detail of the plan set forth in Sodan's thread, including the ability to "dabble" and be effective without being a Master DE.


Their idea was to make CH+BE=DE, which still isn't what we want. We want our droids to be somehow accessable to more people, and not just DE's, yet a DH profession is a mistake in just about everyone's eyes (including the lead designer of the game.)


This discussion began with my disagreement with your statement that this "was exactly" what we shot down all that long ago, and I still disagree. We put down a very broad concept because we were not in possession of anywhere near enough information; we gave up the bicycle because we thought we could have a luxury sports car.


In any case, that was six months ago - right now, I'm concerned about what we want now, with what information we finally have.


From the beginning, you have missed the ENTIRE point of Sodan's proposal. It truly addresses every aspect of what we and other players want : droids for everyone (or at least more people than would get them if it was a strictly seperate elite profession), de's that think we should be able to use our own droids, de's that want to remain strictly crafters, that DH shouldn't be a carbon copy CH with metal skins and no /taming...I know it's not what *YOU* specificly want, but it's not what anyone wants exactly. However, it's the best compromise that gives everyone something to work with.


If the only thing the correspondents can come up with against this proposal is that Brawlers might be a little miffed that their skills with blunt/sharp objects don't qualify them for ranged droid use, then I think it's a very successful plan indeed.


AO

Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 03-30-2004 02:04 AM

DigitalOne
Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:15 am
#77
Im telling you, you would be nieve to think that people are going to stick to 0,0,4,0. I stand by my statement Dabblers are not reliable consumers, and cannot be expected to stay in that one column. You acknowledged yourself they might take on 0,0,4,2 for grinding purposes, well this gives them access to BH droids, the mainstay of some peoples business. Thats all it takes. Furthermore this talk of rare resourses being to time consumeing or expensive, who just said that money was in no short supply? This argument dosent really work. So does the argument concerning the need for factories, since most combat professions have an excess of lots.


Increaseing the popularity of our profession is one thing, but this invites far to many people who are potential comptitors. Do not underestimate willingness of combat professions, not all combat people abhor crafting, there are some who are looking for this chance, since nothing of the sort exists. I would expect more than few. I feel like some sort of Kasandra, your inviteing a trojan horse! Theres not enough built in defense against so called dabblers chooseing to expand.


Futhermore this to egregious a change to the definition of the profession, some people do not want to see DE associated with combat above crafting, as it will inevitably become. Toassume abstinancefrom the built in combat functions as a solution is foolish.


I have nothing against more DEs, but youropening the gates to mongol hoards who will distortwhat we have(and our peaceful way of life Seeit for what it is as a shot in the foot.


There are so many latent functions to this proposal that i canteven begin to see, there may be some thing beyond prediction that could end up harming us aswell. Its best to keep combat out of our profession.


Change is essential however, This is just the wrong direction however.
AudioOrgana
Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:47 am
#78







DigitalOne wrote:

Im telling you, you would be nieve to think that people are going to stick to 0,0,4,0. I stand by my statement Dabblers are not reliable consumers, and cannot be expected to stay in that one column. You acknowledged yourself they might take on 0,0,4,2 for grinding purposes, well this gives them access to BH droids, the mainstay of some peoples business. Thats all it takes. Furthermore this talk of rare resourses being to time consumeing or expensive, who just said that money was in no short supply? This argument dosent really work. So does the argument concerning the need for factories, since most combat professions have an excess of lots.


Increaseing the popularity of our profession is one thing, but this invites far to many people who are potential comptitors. Do not underestimate willingness of combat professions, not all combat people abhor crafting, there are some who are looking for this chance, since nothing of the sort exists. I would expect more than few. I feel like some sort of Kasandra, your inviteing a trojan horse! Theres not enough built in defense against so called dabblers chooseing to expand.


Futhermore this to egregious a change to the definition of the profession, some people do not want to see DE associated with combat above crafting, as it will inevitably become. Toassume abstinancefrom the built in combat functions as a solution is foolish.


I have nothing against more DEs, but youropening the gates to mongol hoards who will distortwhat we have(and our peaceful way of life Seeit for what it is as a shot in the foot.


There are so many latent functions to this proposal that i canteven begin to see, there may be some thing beyond prediction that could end up harming us aswell. Its best to keep combat out of our profession.


Change is essential however, This is just the wrong direction however.






I hate to ask, but how long have you been playing, DigitalOne?


I'm not asking because I want to discount your opinion, I am asking because I am curious how many skill points you have at the moment and how hard you find them to manage.


Very few combat people who want to use these droids will dabble further than they have to. Will some people? Sure, but to the average veteran player skill points are the most precious resource in the game. Not to mention most of these people HATE crafting.


As to low-level competition, please, bring it on! I do not make seekers and such because it's not worth my time/energy as a master. I am SO glad with the new 6K cap on the bazaar I can send people there instead of making a product I have no desire to make just to "be nice".


The goal of the developers in terms of crafting seems to be to encourage specialization - the problem is, most crafting professions at this point have no incentive to not simply make the top-of-the-line Master items and little else. Under this proposal, I see a great possibility for diversity in the profession - it can be played a half dozen different ways.


I don't worry about "far too many potential competitors", because I know that being a Master DE will always be an advantage to someone who does low-level dabbling. Now that the infinite cluster exploit is fixed, it's even less of a concern.


In order to make anything but seekers and MSE/R5/DZ-70 newbie stuff they'd have to become full DE's, and even those that do will likely be doing it to save money and not to sell to others. About the only thing I can see is them buying higher level modules from full DE's, because who wants even a DZ-70 that can only hold 4 items? Level 6 modules are now much more important, and can only be made if you dedicate yourself to master. And to anyone that wants to be a master, I invite them to join us - god knows we've lost so many people, especially the half-dozen high-profile ones this week.


I agree that there are far reaching effects with this proposal, but I see it as simply a mini-profession laid over part of an existing profession because it doesn't warrant a profession on it's own. I think you over-estimate people's spare skill points, and are missing the fact that the majority of players hate crafting and wouldn't do it in a million years past the initial grind that may be required, just like with Holos.


The DE profession needs a huge overhaul in most respects - and if we don't get this sort of hybird, I fear that Publish 8with our exploding MSEs and entertainer modules that make pretty lights may be in pinnacle of our profession, which would be very sad indeed.


AO

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