Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Hybrid DE Discussion: Melee Balance
EnigmaBSc wrote:
One more idea to throw into the pot before Sodan writes up the version 3 proposal. It's a horrible kludge, but I believe it would solve the ranged/brawler problem without giving 'free checkers' (I'm beginning to feel a Gollum-ish. I now both hate and love the phrase 'free checkers').
+1 Combat Droids in Ranged Support IV.
+½ Combat Droids in Each Brawler IV tree.
Hard cap of +1 Combat Droids.
Rationale: By having only +0.5 Combat Droids in the Brawler trees we require Brawlers to take two trees, for a total skill point expenditure of 28 skill points, but since each tree is more useful I don't think this is unreasonable. I'm guessing that the number of Brawlers with two trees is approximately the same as the number of Marksman with Ranged Support IV. The +0.5 could be changed to a +0.34 if too many brawlers have two trees, requiring that they get three. And no I'm not suggesting that brawlers with only one skill tree should be able to have half of a combat droid
EnigmaBSc
Problem with this is that it breaks game system norms. We've never seen 1/2 point skill mods before. That could be corrected somehow.
Then there is the issue of what trees to put it in.
What do others think?
BH + CH is a typical combo. If there was a way to do BH + droids that would rock.
duncje wrote:
BH's shouldn't need the help of more powerful combat droids. The BH profession uses the most skill points in the game, and as such should be the most powerful. That's really not the case, but it is how things should be.
DiLune wrote:
The prof that suffers though is the BH because for him to cross into DE to get droid levels is almost crippling under this model. (By that I mean the Proposed Droid Hybrid in general, not my particular proposal.)
DiLune wrote:
I think the combat droid certs should be included in all novice combat elite boxes (including SL, Commando and BH.)
AO
JavelinCatcher wrote:
2) Who's making enemies? You're assuming we're suggesting Ranged 4 to blatantly hurt melee professions. We're not. What about the Melee damage mutiplier against ranged weapon users? What about "Center of Being" ...those are all things brawlers get that ranged users don't. Two solutions added added to solve a single "kitting" problem. Why would we make enemies ifyou havn't made enemies with Squad Leaders or Combat Medics already because there is no "melee equivalent"?
Well, I for one voted and supported this proposal strictly because I wanted to put it to those melee types. My only motivation was to make enemies with them and make them hate us! Bwhahahahahhahah! 
Seriously, I of course want EVERYONE to have droids, but the Devs aremaking that very difficult.
If the one thing in this plan that po's people is that the prereq is in Marksman and not Brawler, however, I think we've gotten about as close as we are going to get.
My smuggler has never used a Brawler skill once since becoming a smuggler, yet I have to keep that pre-req to be a smuggler. It's a play choice.
Melee people would have to make the decision to pick up Ranged Support in Marksman if they so chose to become a hybird-DE. Just like people make gameplay decisions every day.
I utterly agree - this is no different than Squad Leader. If the melee professions have an issue about having no hybird professions, then they need to take it up with their correspondent who can deal with it. While we have responsibility to see the impact on the overall game, I don't feel that the lack of content for one style of play should dictate decisions when clearly any type of brawler prerequisite would be silly for such a profession.
If you guys have suggestions that meet the Devs criteria, please share them - but we've been there/done that, and so far we have addressed all of the issues you have both brought up, in one way or another.
AO
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 03-26-2004 10:37 PM
JavelinCatcher wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
Melee people would have to make the decision to pick up unarmed if they so chose to become a hybird-DE. Just like people make gameplay decisions every day.
Iwas joking about giving the modifier to Unarmed....
Really...the TKA's don't need it.
I know you were - it was a typo on my part.
It has been corrected above. 
I meant to say "Melee people would have to make the decision to pick up Ranged...if they chose to become a hybird-DE."
While I wouldn't mind dual pre-requisites (i.e. EITHER unarmed OR ranged support) I just don't think that code is available to us.
If it was, I would think several other professions (notably smuggler) would already have it.
AO
And round and round in circles we go. with nary a word from the Devs.
Yes, most of us do want to be suppliers and use what we make, though I respect the minority who do not.
The great thing about this proposal is, if you dont want to, thenyou dont have to. Stay a pure crafter, and excel in it.
As to the concern about the market being flooded with new people making their own droids..well so what?
We can't have it both ways, and I would rather compete in a market, than have us nerfed to oblivion such that only new (very new) players would want our 'combat droids'
In any case, looking carefully at the plan, I honestly don't think it's a real worry. In the end it's skillpoints spent, and those you are worried about just won't do it, they already have the credits to buy what they want if they want it so badly. they have no skillpoints left to become threat. The market will obviously grow a little, but not to anyones real detriment.
Just my thoughts
Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 03-26-2004 09:51 PM
Message Edited by Shian_Tavkin on 03-26-2004 09:55 PM
Its all true.
But the Idea of the dabbler is a myth, if patterns have shown us anything people want there cake and eat it too. And thats what this proposal is all about. Players will see not only combat proficiancy as an appealing point, but also to be able to make a living through crafting. Youll start having this duel role, which is what we want, but its also very powerful. Power is good, but this is a dangerous power, its the power to execl at two different aspects of the game, and thats alittle too appealing. After all we dont want to be the next CH or TKA.
alittle competition is fine, but your opening the gates of hell with this one. Theres still some balance issues wrong with this proposal. It still gives the DE to much power.
DigitalOne wrote:
alittle competition is fine, but your opening the gates of hell with this one. Theres still some balance issues wrong with this proposal. It still gives the DE to much power.
Arcid wrote:
DigitalOne,I don't think that we have to worry so much about dabblers taking on more trees to become self sufficant because of the way that the components are spread throughout the DE tree, not to mention the requirment of Master Artisan parts for a lot of components, and factory made parts, not to mention factory made Master Artisan parts. also don't forget that it isn't only the chassis tree that people have to go up (I can't recall where the combat modules are, but I know that a person would have to have at least 3 trees to build and use combat capable higher level droids, possibly all 4 to in order to manufacture armour for the droid)
All those are taking points, and then when you add in the mix of MA parts then it gets to a point where most of the dedicated combat characters will find the number of skillpoints too high
Message Edited by JavelinCatcher on 03-27-2004 01:39 PM