Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: No combat droids, please
As a Master DE I want combat droids in the game, both viable alternatives for all classes to use (not as powerful as a graul mauler, more like a range from rock beetle to at most a grand wrix) and a Master DE only combat droid on par with a graul mauler.Most of my customers that took CH just to have Graul's would gladly give up a little power to have a less powerful tank in a droid. If the high end combat droid is Master only, this would minimize the number of 'dabblers' (I don't consider dabbling bad).
If you don't want to use combat droids as a master... You don't have to 
Just let those that want to be able to.
Anyways, just wanted to add my 2 credits.
This does not in anyway minimize the need to fix the existing things that are wrong with the class. ie. bugs, lack of functionality of existing droids, etc.
Hi, this is my first post so please be nice 
What about having a droid handler profession. I know that this may angry some droid engineers and some bounty hunters.
I am unable to read the whole thread, because of some glitch with the forums, can not get past page one, so I am sorry if this has been suggested before.
Ok flame retardant clothing on.
Thunderheart wrote:I have a question here.
There is a real seperation of thought here...
Some want DE's to be a "crafter-only" profession while others want the "combat/crafter" mix...
What are your thoughts?
Crafter-only camp here. Let us make combat droids, even have the ability to call one out for self-protection. Do not limit the high-end combat droids to be DE-only. The target market for them should be the elite combat classes. If a DE wants to also take part in serious combat, and not just have the droid for self-protection when doing harv runs etc, spend the spare 150-odd skill points on taking up Pistoleer/TKA/Brawler or something like that. Turning DE into a combat/crafter mix breaks the philosophy that is already in place for the other artisan professions. That's a Bad Thing(TM).
Thunderheart wrote:
I have a question here.
There is a real seperation of thought here...
Some want DE's to be a "crafter-only" profession while others want the "combat/crafter" mix...
What are your thoughts?
TH, my thoughts on this are that DE's want to be crafters of droids first and foremost. But I would also like to have more combat droids that I could craft and sell to other players that are similiar or equal to the level of pets Non-CH's could use. Let the players of the game decide if they want to use a pet or a droid to fight with.
That beind said, I would also like to see a special combat droid that only DE's could own and use just so that we have something special in our class that no one else could have. It would be nice to have that special droid out to protect me as I run from harvestor to harvestor to pick up my resources or search for new viens.
Daishar_Valcyn wrote:I don't know if you're going to get a consensus on this one. There's some rather strong viewpoints on both sides of the issue each time it comes up. You certainly can't give powerful combat droids to everyone,
yes you can and the process has already been put forth by several people. it is workable and fair.
Tie Droid certification to your level of elite professions and in the case of number of droids, the devs themselves have already proposed this, ties that to your profession as well (more medical droids for medics)
It would work something like this.
Novice Novice professions = standard droids, no combat capability or mininal (cl5 max)
Novice elite any profession == Low level combat droid to assist solo players on lowbie planets but not against the toughest mobs cl10-20)
Master elite crafter profession == moderate level combat droid (cl 20-30 range for harvester clearing and protection while on harvester to assist (but not obliterate, fighting withdrawl or distraction while you visit the harvester) up to mid level small mobs on the advanced planets)
Master elite combat profession == high level combat droid (battle droid for high lvl PvE and PvP, up to cl 50 or 60 comparable to CH higher level pets, very expensive to make, unqique resources, experimentation matters a lot/on subcomponents as well, but very nice when you got them) Excellent in groups, assist their masters in player groups up against even the toughest PvE mobs which, with improved AI, are even more deady.
All combat droids decay as a function of use, not damage, this is similar to weapons cause in the end, they are weapons, autonomous weapons. Repair should work the same with risk of total distruction. Keeps churn up for heavy users, keeps economy moving.
All high end combat droids require subcomponents from the other crafting professions (weapon, architect, armor, tailor, even doctor or chef for certain droid modules). For example a combat droid that watches your food buffs and feeds you when they run out. As an aside this would keep food usage high helping out chefs as well.
On top of this you can add special droid modules for classes like medic and BH.
Numbers of droids out at one time can be tied to several skill boxes in the elite profession up to a max (two elite professions do not stack in terms of total droids out, but give you access to specific droid types). The skill boxes that add total droids could be distributed to give some benefits early but not too much to dabbles ( like the new CH model)
Droids are unique in that they should be something everyone has access to, just like in the fiction. However they can be tailored to each profession as appropriate and they should not be a way for newbie characters to be able to tank Kimos.
Making DE a poor version of CH while at the same time completely eliminating DE as a crafting profession as has been suggested is a terrible idea.
Should everyone have droids? Yes. Should everyone have combat droids? Yes, as appropriate based on their elite profession and elite profession level.
Stop assuming that giving out high level combat droids is unworkable. You just have to tie it to mastering a high level profession. This system works, and is used all over the place, we just need to apply it to droids across all professions. The fact that you only have 3 or 4 droid classes ( novice novice, novice elite, master crafter elite, master combat elite) should also keep is simple and easy to balance.
The cool thing is that just like weapons once you get your master elite you can have the same droid loadout as someone else who has an elite profession of the same standing (eg rifleman vs pistoleer, architect vs chef). In the elder game it is balanced and there is no twinking of newbies with killer droids.
It can be done, has already been done weapons and stims and will work with droids. We just need the devs to sit down and work out some more details and start coding.
I posted this in another thread and it has been getting 5 stars and agreement:
Quote:
Talking to several other DEs last night gave me an epihany...
Almost all of us think there should be new droid combat models (Droideka, Battle Droid. etc.)
Most of us think that combat droids (at least some of them) shouldbe sellable to non-DE because we need droids to sell.
Some of us think every player should be able to use every combat droid.
Some of us think there should be different combat droids with a system of certifications to restrict use. This would be complicated to implement, and devs can't seem to do any fixes to us without breaking us already.
Some of us think that DEs should get really powerful DE-only droids, giving us a combat edge. This does nothing to help us sell droids.
I thought of a perfect compromise between the positions:
Implement combat droids usuable by ALL players, but limit non-DEs to one combat droid, and allow advanced DEs (to prevent dabbling) to have 2 of the combat droids.
I believe that the simplest solution to the combat droid issue will best received by the devs, and this is a simple compromise.
At most, we will probably be lucky to get a Droideka, let alone multiple new combat droids.
This plan involves no complicated certs. We get combat droids to sell. DEs get a distinct combat advantage because we get double the droid handling power of any other class.
I really don't like the idea of a high-end droid that only DEs can use, because that droid would most likely be the coolest one, and the one that players would buy from us like crazy.
However, if you give everyone combat droids, and you allow us to simply use more of them at once, EVERYONE is happy.
I think that combat droids are needed in the DE proffessions.
We need more and Better combat droids, that non-DE's can use.
DE only droids should only be bonus once the dev's get bored. Why, cuz you can't sell something only you can use!
Graushwein
I want anyone to be able to use the droids that I make, Including DE's.
-Iphlpapi (Master Droid Engineer)
Sabacc Legends {SL}
Corbanits galaxy
This is a real no-brainer if you ask me.
Is this a Star Wars game? If yes, then droids are useful in a utility sense and a combat sense. See droid army from Episode I, Imperial Probe Droid Episode V.
Does it really need to be any more complicated than that? If it's in Star Wars and it's fun, it needs to be in SWG. Havingcombat droids is fun if you ask me. They do make it pretty clear that droids aren't supposed to replace the humanoid soldier though, so don't make them more powerful than players...
One of the points I've read on this thread is that if DE only droids are created, there will be an influx of Combat oriented folks joining our ranks, just to be able to use these droids and that this will inevitably destroy our market for droid sales. This will depend upon where the certifications lie within DE. My first main character that I've created is a MCH/Mranger. He has hunted Cowardly Gerrucks and mountain krevols and tested the market on those, The money that I've made off of those sales was nothing compared to the money that i have made from capturing, training, and selling rancors/gnarled rancors/grauls/graul maulers.
Obviously I wasnt selling the high level critters to non-ch's but those sales went to ch's that got enough of the tree's that they could use these beasts and then used their extra skill points on other skills. The same could happen in our profession. Master droid engineers could have a strong market from those that wish to spend the skill points just to be able to control some of these mechanical menices. More than likelya lot of thesedabblers will be coming into the DE profession from the artisan classes, since it will be easier and less skill points will be spent to get our creations.
This will create more diversity within the game in that from the scout / fighter ranks their main fighting pets will stay creatures, but from the artisan / fighter ranks we will be using droids. Not completely a bad thing in my mind.
Some artisans classes get upset with this, but how many of us are purely and completely artisan. I have pistols 4 in the marksman ranks and it is a must for me. Sometimes sales are very poor and I need cash, during those times I run survey missions to make credits. With pistols 4 I can get the 1500-1800 credit missions and make the credits i need fairly quickly, with pistols 3 i get survey missions that pay 500-800 per mission, so personally I need to have combat skills. I see very few toons in the game running around without some type of weapon in their hands.
I'd personaly would like to see some combat droids availiable to everyone and some that are only availiable via the DE tree. The DE only ones I don't have to use and being an artisan now I probably won't use, at least not that often, but they would be fun to have.
A big problem for our profession now is that our focus is way to narrow. The droids we make today are almost entirely mobile crafting stations, nothing more nothing less (how many droids do you sell without one installed). Even when I make a probot I usually get requests for some type of crafting station to be installed within him. We certainly do need more useful utility droids that we have now and have the ones we have now work, but combat droids is not a bad or worthless idea.
So I say YES, combat droids, please
Trinkets, Master Droid Engineer, Master Artisan, Sunrunner
Animum, Master Creature Handler, Master Scout, Master Ranger, Scylla
Monthar69 wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
I have a question here.
There is a real seperation of thought here...
Some want DE's to be a "crafter-only" profession while others want the "combat/crafter" mix...
What are your thoughts?
To be fair, there is a minority of DEs who dislike intro'ing combat to the DE profession. They either don't like combat, or they don't want Gunner DEs clouding the profession (like the dabbler CHs) and driving down prices. If you bow to them, then the rest of us DEs interested in better combat droids won't get squat. On the other hand, if you give us combat droids, non-combatant DEs are free to roleplay their characters all the way to crafting nirvana and combatant DEs get to rock the house; this way everyone gets what they want.
See http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=34628
Here's a thought to go with your "brilliant" idea. Make BE able to use the creatures they make but prevent CH from using them. No, wait we can't do that because it'd go against the whole concept that a CH controls the creatures and a BE only engineers them.
So admitting the truth that we don't want that such a bad thing?
I wouldn't want to be a BE, unless I was a CH. The profession doesn't make sense to me - wouldn't be fun for me. But I could say the same thing about being a Doctor, or an Image Designer.
The reason I chose DE as a profession was because being full-time combat isn't fun for me - gets old - and that I didn't want to craft things that I couldn't use.
I've made my fortune shilling droids in Cantinas, spam-free - just sitting there with an R3 or Protocol droid and my "Master DE" title, I made more sales then I care to remember because of the "/tell hell" it stuck me in. Try crafting with four tools, and carrying on 7 conversations like, "What can a Binary Load Lifter do? It's so expensive!", "Why can't I name my droid God?", and...the favorite..."What's the best combat droid you can make?"
It's enough to make you scream. DE is a rough profession, any way you cut it. As a working Master DE, I went through 100's of Master Artisan parts a day, talked to the average customer for 30 minutes/sale (usually three or four at once) telling them all about the droids (even after sending bulk emails describing the core features), and explaining why this doesn't work, or about that exception, or even how to name the frickin' thing (even yes, after sending a email describing how to do so)...No one else has to do this in this scope. Sure, Master Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths, etc. get questions all the time, but most of them are from uninformed people that could get the data elsewhere. Teach someone to read weapon stats and explain what they mean, or armor (to which a handy guide is available on the SWG main page under "advanced guides), and it's up to them to compare. A DE can never do that - there is no central place where the average person can find in-game, in-manual, and without a 3-rd party website all the essential, ever changing things a DE needs to know/experiment after every patch to discover.
And this isn't even to mention the actual crafting of droids - which is a whole beast onto itself.
Why am I saying all this?
I don't expect it to change - I don't want it to change. I would like some more documentation on droids, but that's about it.
I'm not saying it to complain, either - I wouldn't do it if I didn't LOVE it.
For many of us the things I discussed above are part of the package - we accepted it when we put on our Master DE hat and did the profession proud.
What we do not like is that we have been nerfed, and broken, and seen very, very little improvement since we have gone live.
We can all agree to the bugs, which people have posted about in spades; my personal irritants are the inability to name talking droids, and the broken droid module/frame combos (item storage doesn't work in a surgical droid, repair doesn't work in a Protocol droid, etc.). Why? Because those are the ones that generate the most questions and, "Aw, that stinks!" comments.
Past the bug fixes, we want combat droids. Why? Because that's what people want! I honestly cannot tell you how many times some days I've gotten a "What's the best combat droid you can make?" /tell from out of the blue, only to send people to a CH once they laugh at the stats.
The only disagreement comes with the whole idea of who should use combat droids. There are those of us like me who don't care - I'm a DE, and the day I quit DE is the day I leave SWG. I love droids - that's what it's all about.
I don't get the BE thing. It's great for them, but just as I said above, being a doctor, for instance - doesn't appeal to me either.
We shouldn't be ashamed to want our droids taken away from us. If they are going to insist on certifications, we need to insist on having them, regardless of who else does.
Audio
AudioOrgana wrote:
We shouldn't be ashamed not to want our droids taken away from us. If they are going to insist on certifications, we need to insist on having them, regardless of who else does.
Audio
Er...LOL.
Correction.
Audio
Personally,back in beta3, I had hoped DE wouldend upthe mechanical equivalent of the CH class.
- We're artisan-based, they're scout based... neither "combat" classes.
- We make and sell utility and low to (hopefully) mid-level combat droid "pets".
- They tame and sell mounts and low level creature pets.
(/em shrugs)
What I'd like to see is now
new combat droid chassis and low to mid-level modules for general use that rival single low to mid-level faction pets in power.
a spec system for general combat modules and chassis.
combat droid configurations spec'd throughout the DE skill tree that allows DE's the OPTION of being "Droid Handlers".
We can't have CH-competitivegeneral use combat droids without recreating the very problem that is just being solved with the CH "dabblers"... but we can spec competitive DE combat droids through our own tree. This AND properly working utility droids AND profession specific droids and modules will help shift the game away from the "creature-wars" (I didn't use the "P" word) paradigm we're currently stuck in.