Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: to Thunderheart

Gribnitz
Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:23 pm
#53






Thunderheart wrote:



Some answers:










  • We're going to hook you up mang, but its not a "glorious" or sexy update. Thats really the big divide here in terms of the thinking. The combat droids are a big, sexy change to the game. The problem is, regardless of what Holocron said in the past, the design of the game has changed and we cant add the droids in via the certification system. The combat system that was in place when Raph was here has been tweaked and changed. The new members of the live team have altered it to the point where its just not reasonable and requires the Droid Commander.







I would like some clarification on this as well. If we would have been told up front that it was going to be a cold day in hell before Certs would ever be considered, the DE vote on what to do with combat droids may have been quite a bit different. It's obvious that bug fixes needed to be done first, lord knows we need those. But the combat droid deal was a whole different ball of wax. We were under the impression from long ago that Certs were going to be implemented at some point in the future after the great probot nerf, then the DH was thrown at us. Obviously we preferCerts to a new DH class. Now we are told Certs will never happen. What gives ???



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gribnitz the Rodian with the glasses
Master Droid Engineer - Master Artisan

Did you know it is physically impossible to lick your own elbow?

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Nyght
Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:31 pm
#54







Thunderheart wrote:








Lotussutol wrote:



you say you have heard them...oh how many times have we heard that before...you may hear us but how you interpet that information baffles me!





Well, if we were in the same room having a conversation over a cup of coffee, it would be easier. We would have tone of voice, facial and body inflection and a lot more communicative context. Without the benefit of being able to see each other while we communicate, it makes things difficult and much harder to interpret.


In a positive environment, it makes it easier to communicate.


There are a lot of posters who have really been trying hard lately - - Drashk has been really involved, TK421 and so many othersand I really appreciate it. We really appreciate it. It makes everyone's experience here more pleasant and more effective and that's really cool











TH,


The root of this problem and 100 others is the same.


The developers are working in the vacuum of a one way conversation. They 'listen' through you and the correspondants but they 'tell' us nothing until it is already coded.


A simple 'true' conversation, with give and take would avoid this all too common 'boiling over'.


Message Edited by Nyght on 02-17-2004 06:33 PM



-------------------------------------------------
Smuggler revamp or bust!

(There's an old sig for ya!)
Naufragus
Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:38 pm
#55






CLab2021 wrote:

Why the hell dose Thunderjoke save his longest posts for philosohpical quips on how people understand each other and work together blah blah blah.


This has nothing to do with me other than I buy driods, but its just another instance of how inept Thunderjoke is when it comes to communicating to the community.


STOP posting crap! No one cares about your philosohpical views on life or anything about your life for that matter all people want from you at this point is honest information in reguards tothe game, their profession, where they are headed, what to expect, and why things are happing the way they are....







god i so agree!


there long posts are always about nothing and explaining or justifiing their screw up while the important information is put out in 5 word blurbs...patch notes are sctechy at best



  • Improved X

  • Redesigned Y

  • Revamped Z

Naufragus
Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:40 pm
#56






Hakai wrote:


Have you ever worked in public relations?







actually thats what i do for a living....i can tell you for a fact this team is pitiful
Boeda
Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:43 pm
#57

Doh, good heavens. The egg on my face is very smelly.




Boeda wrote:



Checkers aside what could you do with a seperate profession, Certwise ?






I meant Checkers aside what could you do with a seperate profession, Certwise, That you couldnt do with an inherant cert. (say within novice DE up one branch , Master DE box, and Master arts box)


To me DEs are more like ritz crackers than combat checkers. I dont see a conflict adding combat checkers to crafting snacks.


Anyway its hard for me to accept this nessessity for 'DC' profession. But I want to say when I voted no to 'DH' i was not voting no to Combat droids ('CD'S) (g) And I would rather bear a DC proofession than no 'CD's > lev 10.




- - -

There are No Steeenking 'Checkers' in crafting skillpoints !




Improved !!! Revised,"Alternate" New Combined DC/DE Hybrid Answer

Pluto9Moon
Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:29 pm
#58



Kollos wrote:

Thanks Thunderheart.

When our forum gets "invaded" by members of another profession because they think we've asked to have them nerfed, our own collective voice can sound rather feeble in comparison. That's at least a contributing factor as to why we sometimes overreact. In the last week or two we've had Creature Handlers and now Architects jumping down our throats.

I look forward to the overview!





Kollos,

I posted in the other forum that I would try to avoid taking the bait. I do want to make sure you have your facts straight.

Feb 10th, 2004
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=158941#M158941
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=61928#M61928

Shortly after I made my infamous now deleted thread CH's are at it again (CH version).

I do not want to rant on about the past but contrary statements like this does little if anything to foster at least a truce between DE and CH. Had the original poster stated something differently like "I know we DE got it rough but you all are getting beat down", then things might play out somewhat differently. Had the DH threads not turned into a CH bashing fest my guard as well might not be up. I am certain without a shadow of a doubt someone will one star me for this post. But I am a duck and it all rolls off (eventually).
Kollos, I do not in any way wish to steal Dev time as insuated. I am glad you are getting a major rework as a FIX. I hope that 100% of it works out to your favor.

I am also glad to see TK take a leadership role. I have always believe the DE needed someone or something to really rally around.

To Drashk: I need to apologize for my assumption that you specifically deleted my thread, I am deeply sorry for that. On the other hand, whomever deleted mine should also have had the jewels to delete the other, and I will not apologize for my belief in fairness.



Sign for Hutt Faction here: Hutt Faction

Not against broad changes, just profession specific ones (read as CH) that go against what we've been told in the past.
(I hired Trayson as a ghost writer for a good tagline)
Hakai
Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:51 pm
#59






Naufragus wrote:






actually thats what i do for a living....i can tell you for a fact this team is pitiful




Cheers! how the hell do you keep from smashing in skulls?




Hakai Youkai
==================================
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(-211, -5812) (6197, 4326)
Hunting outfitter since 9/22/03
Anchorhead, and Mos Tyrenia, Tatooine
==================================
-Stinky
Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:01 pm
#60






Thunderheart wrote:





I let things boil over before because there were a lot of real issues. I dont mind people venting from time to time, but it cannot be a habit. Drashk is working hard for droid issues, TK-421 and others have been supporting our efforts and we need to make this a positive place. We want this to be a fun and interesting place to come. Change and evolution is part of what MMO's are all about and this can be a place of community, a place of change and a good source of information and we all need to make it become that. It won't become a place of valuable community without all of us putting our best foot forward. That energy begets a better place and we all benefit from such an effort.


You guys have said your peace and laid your claims and we have heard them. We are putting a plan of action together (Im working on the post as we speak) and we're going through with it. I was able to change the course of game development based on the DE community's requests against the better wishes of the devs and to that end, this team is spending a lot of money and effort on these changes and we need your help to make these changes as effective and as fun as they can be.







TC, you've been here ofr a while now. You must have some clue what this ride has been like for us. I ahvew been a DE since mid-August. And we have been waiting for us to be fixed. We ahve been told explicitly "You are the primnary focus next", "Your going to be very excited veyr soon" blahblahblah. That was in what, Sept/Oct timeframe?


And you want patience and good will? Maybe from the noobs who haven't been down this road before. From me, no. No patience or slack. We just want action, no pie in the sky crap. Thus far from my percepctive you ahve failed the DE comunity miserably. Be it your responsiblity or not, we sit here bumps on a log, waiting and waiting. We have been putting our best foot forward for months and been left in the cold.


You will see patience and good will when _you_ create it. We have twiddled our thumbs for long enough with lil to no real attention from the development staff and been promised the moon.



/flail





Stinky, Master Smuggler ` Master DE `
Colonel - Imperial Army
General, SoL - Sect of Laereth
Wanderhome

Custom and BH droids.
Naufragus
Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:08 pm
#61






Boeda wrote:

Anyway its hard for me to accept this nessessity for 'DC' profession. But I want to say when I voted no to 'DH' i was not voting no to Combat droids ('CD'S) (g) And I would rather bear a DC proofession than no 'CD's > lev 10.







well i have been following the DE saga....it is a travesty how droids have been handled in a STAR WARS game while the P-okeman crap was given top priority for months,,,


I want some useful fun droids...a new profession is just unacceptable...some of us have nothing we can give up to aquire skills just so we can use a droid...no one in the movies ever had to be trained as a droid handler...the droids where preprogramed machines....


While i can understand the devs dont want everyone to have the best combat droid, there has to be a BETTER solution than creating an entirely new profession.


Sometimes i really get the feeling that there is a dark side and a ligt side on the dev team....the light side fighting for droids and taht star warzy feel while the dark side tries to keep up in their medieval, hides and bone world.



Boeda
Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:31 pm
#62


>While i can understand the devs dont want everyone to have the best combat droid, there has to be a BETTER solution than creating an entirely new profession.<

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=59251&page=1




- - -

There are No Steeenking 'Checkers' in crafting skillpoints !




Improved !!! Revised,"Alternate" New Combined DC/DE Hybrid Answer

AudioOrgana
Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:14 pm
#63







Thunderheart wrote:




In a negative environment, what happens is we all get side tracked in frantic side issues that are way off target and that doesnt serve anyone well. We'll get it done. We just need to keep this a fun and interesting place and in the process create a great game and a great community








A frantic side issue like this?


What about the real issues that are continually ignored?

In case you didn't know, there is a HUGE change in how our Probots (those are the droids that look like Imperial Probe Droids, NOT the BH Arakyd Probe Droid) are constructed. Their armor level has gone wonky - either a) they don't stack anymore (making 2 slots useless) or b) it's a bug.


And neither you, nor ourcorrespondent havesaid one word, even though both of you have been in these "happy-positive-feel-good-help-us-help-you" threads.


I'm sure you can see the problem here, TH. Think of it like a bank teller -the bank teller is greeting and schmoozing all the customers that walk in, giving them candy, andtelling them how much better the experience will be if they stay positive as they wait in line. While doing this, the line starts to back up, and then it gets so long people just walk out and stop waiting.


That's what's happening here. And from the posts that you, Drashk, and one or two other members of this community have made in the last couple of days, it seems as this is not only what you'd like, but a blatant suggestion : if you expect anything at all from this profession and aren't happy with the very little progress thus far, you aren't going to be happy ever - please don't let the R2 unit hit you on the behind on your way out.


TH, we have the power to make this appear on the surface a "happy" place, but since these boards are not public anymore perception shouldn't be the worry of people who really have issues here. You, the Dev team, and our correspondent, are the ones that hold the cards here - it is up tothe group of you to keep us informed, to not attribute opinions to our community that you are not absolutely clear on (not just our feelings but in your understanding of the actual game mechanics they deal with), and to address major issues (like thecurrent Probotproblem) in a timely fashion.


In order for it to be a two-way street both sides of the street must beequal, which in this case they certainly are not.


Our only power is reaction - give us something positive to react to, and you will recieve a positive result.


Talking about positivity while making actions that are negative or otherwise dismissive is not the way to go about this.


Audio


Lowenblade
Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:46 pm
#64






Thunderheart wrote:





In a positive environment, it makes it easier to communicate.


There are a lot of posters who have really been trying hard lately - - Drashk has been really involved, TK421 and so many othersand I really appreciate it. We really appreciate it. It makes everyone's experience here more pleasant and more effective and that's really cool





So what exactly are you saying here Thunderheatr? Do you honestly want a forum full of Dev Team apologists? The kumbya, see-no-evil, hear-no-evil, speak-no-evil pseudo lovefest might be soothing, but it may alsobe thewrong tactics for some DE discussions. Sharp exchanges and strong disagreements can, at times, produce better results than a phony "World Peace" approach. The important thing is to show that we could disagree and still be friends.

Foth
Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:15 am
#65


To Thunderheart,


It appears that you are the main cause of more than a few communications snafu's. By your own admission the decay statement you made had to be re-written for you as to make it more clear. I see that there has been an issue related to schematic changes and droid engineer experimentation. I have seen other examples, but unfortunately I am unable to properly recall them, so I will not attempt to list them.


There is a failed communication pattern here, while severity can be debated it is problematic. My main issue is this, if you are unable to effectively communicate with us what the devs say or do, how can you effectively communicate our issues with the devs?


Mistakes happen and there is always a better way to communicate something, however I have not seen any improvement by you and this is becoming a factor in swg community frustration.


Sooner or later your lack of communication skills will catch up with you. I sincerely advise you to learn from your mistakes and become better at your position. Hiding behind saying that its not a face to face coffee meeting is absurd. Its logistics in a sense and any quality management team or consultant will easily identifyyour faults.


You getting better can make the game better, you getting better can directly affect the mood of the swg community. Realize that people will react to what you have to say. This isa powerful thing and you must manage that correctly andcarefully.When you make mistakes, some people may leave the game, some people may just become angry but this can further influence others negatively. I think you understand how the chain of events on this works.


So write well, if you are unsure of a point or need clarification of a point, ask thehead of theforumns or that particuliar issue. It can be much more valuable if a particuliarcommunity feels more involved in their issues than if it actually is. We know thedirection of the game is not going to change on a dime. We know the direction of the game is basedatleast in part on marketing. We know our voices havebut a small impact on the future of the game.


With that said, many of us have a far greater pride in this game than you can imagine. Many of usjust want the game to be what it should.All the communities issues basically revolve around broken or unbalanced issues and thus far your communications with the community has not done much to alieve this.While there is indeed a limit on what you can do, what you are visually doingis subpar and I emplore you to do a better at communicating. We are customers and most of usjust plain love the swg universe.


Foth!


Try, Fail, Learn, grow wiser, teach wisdom,the improvements may astoundyou!



Message Edited by Foth on 02-18-2004 07:25 AM



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