Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: TH quote on Publish 8
TheRealTK421 wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
If you didn't know about this, how does it justify you telling us to keep "our chins up?"
By the way, since you're apparently in the know and on top of the situation....
There's other stuff that I am aware of (that might make it to TC) about which we should be positive.
/emote shaking his head..
Wonderful TK! So happy for you..Really. It must be so nice. Glad that your ego needed to point that out, yet again. Nice to know where your mind is in all this.
I wish it didn't always have to be such a battle with you Audio. I know things suck for us. Is that what you want?
Is that what I want? Hardly. But hearing you admit the gravity of the situation, even in a patronizing way, is nice.
You want me to be the TK I was to start with...steeped in derision and jadedness? That would help us how, exactly?
That was who was nominated. Someone who would stand up and not let us get stomped on again. Someone to fight for us. Not justify things and try to placate us.
To be honest...I got tired of being rancorous over our situation, Audio. I know that I could rant and rave with the best of them. However, we know that this clearly doesn't help our situation.
Any more than it does to pat us on the hands and say, "It will be all right..." when clearly it won't be.
What you call spin, I call trying to keep the DE boards from erupting into flames any worse than they are now. Not an easy thing, believe me.
You have missed this point so many times, you are intentionally ignoring it - you must be : the reason people are upset is because of DIRECT action taken to nerf us coupled with NO COMMUNICATION on vital issues.
You can give all the "happy positive" talk you want, but the Devs are the ones who have the ball in their court. Stop pushing the company line that it's about us - because each and every time you do, you prove the point that it doesn't feel like you are working for us but to subdue us.
If the Dev team came in and honestly answered our questions, without going through a dozen wishy-washy rewrites or getting third-hand information, and kept us up to date on the status of our profession, we wouldn't be upset. If they didn't go back and delete former correspondents postings about the state of the profession, we wouldn't be upset. If they gave us any indication that anything was ever going to get signifigantly better and were honest and told us how, we wouldn't be upset.
It's not the state of the profession that kills the experience for so many, it's the method and lack of communication that we are asked to swallow at the same time.
And....as to that point, I can see why the Devs find it so problematic. It actually makes it much harder for ME to get the good info/data that I need to track and report back to TH and the others.
Again, TK - read above. It's so simple, again, that I know you get it. Postive action/communication out = postive action/communication in.
To act like we are in control of the situation is to give a child in a car-seat a toy steering wheel and let them pretend they are driving - it doesn't matter how good or bad they do, they aren't the ones driving the car.
Remember us, TK? The CUSTOMERS. It isn't in good taste to bring that up very often, but when we are told to "lay down and play nice!" because the master doesn't feel like feeding us, it has to be pointed out. They are PAID to work with us. This doesn't give us any rights at all, but it does not give us the responsibility for the tone of these boards either.
This board is akin to discussing a disaster; you cannot expect it to be a happy place while that disaster is in progress before our very eyes.
So, in a way, all the negativity really gates me being able to do a better/faster job for all of you.
A better job of what?Telling us our ideas are not possible/not being considered, and a faster job of getting us to put together a useless proposal for a droid handler profession that we don't really want (but are going to accept because it's better than nothing and we have no choice) and spending the next six to nine months going through what we just ended, trying to give them ideas for our profession that have zero direction. When they do give us a bit of direction (as they did with the requirements for combat droids), we follow it to a T - and what happens? "Not possible, k thx bye..."
If that's what we can expect, don't worry TK - you won't have to read what I have to say, and the three DE's left playing by the space expansion can all get together and have this forum to be positive and happy all they want.
Some of you probably won't believe that (or will believe that I'm 'pinning' no matter what I say or do). I can't really solve
that, since I don't think I have a way to truly please everyone in this situation.
You can please me very easily, TK. Stop asking us to roll over and be nice every time we get slapped.
If/when the Devs (or the DEs) kick me out, or when r/l presents something that makes me have to bow out, you're more than welcome to this position Audio. It think it would change your perspective just as it's changed mine (and I've heard the same from ex rebel-rousing Correspondents as well).
No, thanks. I understand the position the Devs are in better than you think. However, I also understand that they put themselves out for it as well. It's sort of like a movie star complaining they can't go to the mall because they get mobbed. It's a hazzard of the job.
I'm going to take your advice, TK. In another thread you told me that SOE oversold everything in the game and falsely advertised, and that we should keep our expectations low.
Since you are so enlightened as to the current situation, I'm going to take that as : "DE sucks, it's going to continue to suck."
Is that what I want, TK? No, but I'd rather you be honest than rub salt in the wounds by spinning.
AO
Lonkley wrote:
If we all have to get up every morning and post our allegiance to the devs in order to get droids fixed, then damn it, thats what we need to do. Personally im hoping it wont come to that.
Lonkley wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
I got stuck with HUNDREDS of useless droids because of Publish 7. Should I just bend over and say, "thank you sir, may I have another?"
You played the speculative future, even with "good sources" you were the one to decide to make the gamble that it would be cheaper to produce them pre-7 then post-7. It was your own greed, so i hardly feel sorry for your decision. Besides, as i recall, the "hot tip"was to make the Chassis. If you had just made Chassis i believe they would have worked.
Go back and read it.
It clearly says "Chassis and deeds".
It was not greed, any more than playing the game in general as a crafter is. I routinely make these amounts of droids - unlike other DE's, I sold tons of probots even BEFORE the patch. And yes, I thankfully had more chassis than deeds, but instead of following my gut and simply stopping to make droids, I foolishly did what I was told.
Nonetheless, I got stuck with 100's of deeds based on taking the advice I was given by our correspondent from the Dev team. I was informed, did what I was supposed to, and got screwed. That's not speculation, that is downright misinformation. Don't give me that market crap - this is a video game we paid for and it is perfectly reasonable for us to expect accurate information.
What you are missing is that if this were a one time thing, that would be one thing, but I am sick to death of change-change-change that doesn't make things better, just different. Do the combat ratings need to be enhanced? No, they just need to give us a little armor back. Do that, and these new droids would be awesome.
Yes, i know im being a jerk AO. You're absolutely right in a lot of ways. I would love to rant about it myself, but quite frankly, you're ranting enough for the entire profession. Its just not helpful. Kicking the people who are in control of getting things done is not a very wise tactic. If we all have to get up every morning and post our allegiance to the devs in order to get droids fixed, then damn it, thats what we need to do. Personally im hoping it wont come to that.
If you just feel like being a "jerk" as you say, simply because you think I am being too vocal, then shame on you. I wouldn't have to be so vocal if I wasn't one of the only people left who give a crap. I don't have time to bother with people that are here for their jollies, I am here to try to get something that I love the attention that it deserves, has been promised, and is failing to be delivered. I'm glad your patience is infinite - maybe you will be one of the three DE's sitting around the campfire with TK musing about how cheerful droid engineering is.
You can call it ranting, but there aren't many people fighting for droids these days, and I just see this as another in a long line of nerfs, short or long term, that we have had to undergo lately.
See, it's really simple. I asked TH the question that sparked this thread. Go read my response. It was constructive and expressed concern. I even said that what he said could potentially be positive.
Then I come in here, and hear TK pooh-pooh that it needs to be looked at, that it's not a problem. Well, obviously others agree that it is an issue (those that it affects, DE's that produce in quantity).
If I hadn't asked TH in that thread today, how much notice do you think we would have gotten about anything?
That is the point, it's just one hit after another after another, and they can't even be bothered to give us a heads up, and when they do (by accident) our concerns are, well, of no concern.
AO
There are some people here who seem really dissatisfied with this Game. This means of having fun. In fact it is so unfun for them that they spend a LOT of time on these forums writing about how bad it sucks to voluntarily play this game.
Wow, that is so strange to me.
I playeda Gnome Tinkerer in EverQuest right up through Luclin, then the developers over there screwed us Tinkerers. I quit the game two weeks later and never looked back. I didn'tplay another MMO for over a year.
As soon as I feel as angry about ANY aspect of this game that some of the posters I read here project I'm gone.
Just my two credits.
Deidre
TK, perception is you're not fighting for us the way you used to. We don't see what you tell the devs, and post on your secret correspondent boards. Look at it from a suffering DE's point of view. We get nothing from the Devs, but we do get you coming in here with your "everything's gonna be alright" posts. It sounds almost condescending from someone on our side of the fence.
I can't say if you're doing a good or bad job as a correspondent, nothing's really come of it yet, except the death of the hybrid DE idea.
You're seeing both sides of the fence, but step back andtryto look at it from our side of the fence. You come off sounding like a Dev "yes-man" sometimes, and I know that's not you. I'm not trying to pile on here, but they've got to give us something in the way of information, or this will continue to spiral out of control.
/bow
duncje wrote:
TK, perception is you're not fighting for us the way you used to. We don't see what you tell the devs, and post on your secret correspondent boards. Look at it from a suffering DE's point of view. We get nothing from the Devs, but we do get you coming in here with your "everything's gonna be alright" posts. It sounds almost condescending from someone on our side of the fence.
Yea...the 'We can't see what you're doing' issue is something that I'm starting to be aware of.
I will say that I have like 11 pages of posts on the Corr. boards already, so it's not as if there hasn't been a lot of info from me to them. And...vice versa. Some of it posted here via my thread with responses to Gorantoth's list. I put the next 3 in front of him and will press to get more still.
The Top 5 (top 20) will also be put up here at the same time that it's put on the Corr. boards, so we are all working off the same page.
I can't say if you're doing a good or bad job as a correspondent, nothing's really come of it yet, except the death of the hybrid DE idea.
Yea, I got on at a strange point. P7 was already locked and most of P8 was as well. That put me in a bad place to really have something come of it.
You're seeing both sides of the fence, but step back andtryto look at it from our side of the fence. You come off sounding like a Dev "yes-man" sometimes, and I know that's not you. I'm not trying to pile on here, but they've got to give us something in the way of information, or this will continue to spiral out of control.
Yea..I can see why you say this. It is true that I'm different. It doesn't mean that I fight less as much as fight different. I am still kind of new.
I think the 'gameplan' post I'm working up will help with this...
Respectfully,
Deidre_DE wrote:
There are some people here who seem really dissatisfied with this Game. This means of having fun. In fact it is so unfun for them that they spend a LOT of time on these forums writing about how bad it sucks to voluntarily play this game.
Really gives new meaning to "community relations". Those people that joked that this was the grand plan to weed DE's out of the game may have been right or wrong - regardless, the end result was achieved.
Tk
If you are constrained in speaking about what you tell us THEY say to you.....
Why can't you tell us what you say to them?
I, for one, would like to know what you are saying as our representative. You say you are working hard, but we have no idea on what..so tell us.
I just read this thread from top to bottom, and I applaud Audio's passion, would that I still had mine. maybe you are glad I dont, maybe you will get your 'snake free zone' where the gutless Devs will be happy to post and be praised. I spent this afternoon on the WW2OL forums. Have you any idea of the difference there is there? Devs actually spend time with the customers, and not just Devs, the Producer no less. Everything thats coming , even as a thought, they publish - what do you think about X?. No stealth nerfs, no changes that are negative, everything there is open, honest and above board. Here its all state secrets, private forums, and why? because they dont know the first thing about customer service - not a single customer service principle can be seen on these boards anywhere...not anywhere...get that clearly? Not Anywhere.
Hence disgruntled customers..it really is simple, they have to change, cos its not just here you see it, it's in all the other forums as well. As for TH and his one line comments that either confuse or create thousands of posts for explaination..well I dont even want to go there.
Make of it what you will - somehow I doubt you will make of it what could be made of it, I expect some marketing positivity hype instead of you going to them and saying-- this correpondant forum thing is too secret for SOE's own good. Don't justify it to me please, I really no longer care.
(previous bugs) - (confirmed fixes) + (new bugs introduced last publish) = (set of remaining bugs)
AudioOrgana wrote:
Yes, i know im being a jerk AO. You're absolutely right in a lot of ways. I would love to rant about it myself, but quite frankly, you're ranting enough for the entire profession. Its just not helpful. Kicking the people who are in control of getting things done is not a very wise tactic. If we all have to get up every morning and post our allegiance to the devs in order to get droids fixed, then damn it, thats what we need to do. Personally im hoping it wont come to that.
If you just feel like being a "jerk" as you say, simply because you think I am being too vocal, then shame on you. I wouldn't have to be so vocal if I wasn't one of the only people left who give a crap. I don't have time to bother with people that are here for their jollies, I am here to try to get something that I love the attention that it deserves, has been promised, and is failing to be delivered. I'm glad your patience is infinite - maybe you will be one of the three DE's sitting around the campfire with TK musing about how cheerful droid engineering is.
Im just trying to be somewhat apologetic to you. Dont read anything more into that statement than that, because in the end, we are still on the same side. And no, I doubt ill be one of the three.I plan to drop DE. I want to do so right now in fact, the last carrot is seeing patch 8 on TC so i can make the decision without regret. My patience is strained at best, and I know you've seen my criticisms elsewhere. Im hardly here for my 'jollies', my blood pressure usually rises proportionate to the time I spend here. But till the day I hit surrender, Im going to be just as vocal over what I think is good for the profession. Increased combat ability, no matter what personal investment I have in parts, is a good thing for the Profession. You and I may give up the profession over it, but we'll be replaced by those who will have benefited.
You can call it ranting, but there aren't many people fighting for droids these days, and I just see this as another in a long line of nerfs, short or long term, that we have had to undergo lately.
Fight? What fight? Its not a fight and its never been one. We cant yell down the devs. People are quiet right now, because we are in between moments and have been thoroughly beaten down. Patch 7 is stone, and Patch 8 is nearly stone.There's nothing to be said. We'll see when P8 hits TC. For myself, I look at the serious mistake I made in trying to convince the devs to can the DH. All it accomplished was having a bad idea put off for a year instead of gaining what our clients wanted now; combat droids.Bargaining with the devs is worse than bargaining withthe devil. At least the devil keepshis promises.
See, it's really simple. I asked TH the question that sparked this thread. Go read my response. It was constructive and expressed concern. I even said that what he said could potentially be positive.
Then I come in here, and hear TK pooh-pooh that it needs to be looked at, that it's not a problem. Well, obviously others agree that it is an issue (those that it affects, DE's that produce in quantity).
If I hadn't asked TH in that thread today, how much notice do you think we would have gotten about anything?
Yes, and THATS helpful. But as TH told you directly, you have hadlots of good comments that he wont reply tobecause of your jabs.
That is the point, it's just one hit after another after another, and they can't even be bothered to give us a heads up, and when they do (by accident) our concerns are, well, of no concern.
Kilarny wrote:
(previous bugs) - (confirmed fixes) + (new bugs introduced last publish) = (set of remaining bugs)
You know, provide feedback on ideas in a timely manner, outline the framework for the profession's future enhancement, suggest topics for brainstorming,give a 'peek' at future enhancements and ask for speculation on how they might be usable/exploitable...all those sorts of things that don't happen around here.
Lonkley wrote:
Yes, and THATS helpful. But as TH told you directly, you have hadlots of good comments that he wont reply tobecause of your jabs.
Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 04-06-2004 02:03 AM
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Well...this would be good to know. I don't know exactly how the 'tweak' is supposed to happen, so maybe we should get unified on this.
Javac wrote:
Exactly what I did, I'm hoping that the end result from the module rating is the tweak, not changing the range that the modules can reach.
Should it be:
- Increase combat module rating cap?
- Tweak/add ability to experiment Combat Rating at the Cluster crafting stage and/or the deed stage?
Maybe it would help for them to know where we stand on this.../shrug (I'm asking them too, right now, by the way).
/bow
Respectfully,
That's good and all TK, but the droid's armor issues really play into this as well. I'd almost rather have NO increase in the combat modules in turn for: 1. Making the cap for 1 lvl 6 Droid armor module AR=0, 40% Resists, and adding a second module gives us AR=1 (light) with 40% resists. SOMETHING needs to be addressed on these multiple module droids, it's just confusing and wasteful.
Otherwise, I have to say stick with experimentation at the module level, or just make them more effective than they are now by increasing the damage at the current scale. I would like for there to be NO cap honestly - the better the module you can craft, the better the combat abilities is how it should be IMO.