Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: Droids: Where we were and where we’re going.

OrionsByte
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:46 pm
#53






Daker-Naritus wrote:



Ok, I know this is probably not all the modules DEs will get, but I do have a question:


DEs have proposed lots of new utility droid functions, many of which are "enhancement" functions. Ex: Slicing modules that give a bonus to slicing, crafting modules that give a bonus to experimentation, dancing modules that give a bonus to entertainment healing and buffing, etc.


You have continually posted on this issue, stating that we can't have modules like this to put in droids and sell because this is an "extra checker" that doesn't cost any skill points.


Shortly thereafter, the information about the Chef revamp came out, and Chefs got a bunch of foods that do the EXACT thing that you told us the devs would never agree to because they are "extra checkers."


Why is this ok for chef foods, but not for DE modules? Droids require funds for people to buy, batteries to keep them running, and always have a danger of being destroyed after they are called... Considering how cheap food is, why isn't this balance enough for us to have "enhancement" droid modules?


We REALLY want droids that people will want and use, and enhancement is the only way we can have that... Why won't the devs consider enhancement modules for us?



p.s. PLEASE stop posting in HTML...it makes it impossible to reply to your posts, and it jacks everything up.





The big difference, IMHO, is that the chef food is consumable. You use it a few times, then it's gone. Same thing, kind of, with skill tapes. The clothes you put them in degrade and eventually you don't have the skill tape anymore. The lifetime is much, much longer than food or spice though, so you'll never see a skill tape that gives a +200 health bonus or something; that would be too permanent and would become unbalancing.


Similarly, modules placed in droids are basically permanent. Most modules work whether the droid's batteries are charged or not, meaning that it's feasible to get the bonuses from the modules without ever buying batteries. There's no consumable architecture here, so any bonuses the modules give you become basically a permanent part of your character, and become unbalancing.


The middle ground here, for me, would be to either make all modules stop working if the droid's batteries went dead (with the extended battery life it wouldn't be as bad as it sounds) or come up with some other sort of droid consumable that would ensure that a player would have to invest something in his or her droid in order to get its benefits.



Checking your spelling (and punctuation, too) will ensure that you're making sense to more than two people.
- +----=X Biranno Runningstar X=----+ -
Master Musician | Master Droid Engineer | 4020 Artisan | 0/0/3/1 Fencer | Alliance Ace Pilot
Emerald Ridge, Naboo ~ Naritus

-I support ATK play!
Micco30
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:49 pm
#54

OMG, I LOVE YOU TH


Wound repair kits, battery life extension, combat effectiveness increased, modules that now do something unique, Combat modules can be experimented to bemore effective, customization lasts longer, DZ-70 HAMincreased again, utility modules, no DH.That is a HELL of a lot more than I thought we were getting


Some functionality/ experimentation/bugs that still need to be addressed, but maybe you can work some of that stuff out as you move forward with these next publishes? There are a lot of people here who have great ideas on how these things can be dealt with.


Thanks so much for giving us this information and for listening.





Two accounts cancelled due to lack of Dev interest

The NGE, a sad end to a great game!
MurienAquarius
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:51 pm
#55

Also, Sketh and some other folks had GREAT ideas about immersive personality chips, and Smuggler-related slicing modules that were just too cool. There are a lot of ideas out there, we really need to present ALL of them while we are getting some attention!! Take it easy peeps.



Murien Aquarius
DarthIguana
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:52 pm
#56



Gairnok wrote:

Oh one more thing.. Barker droids? I mentaly groan when I think of starports filled with droids shouting at messages constantly. Visions of HUGE LAG, come to mind.






/agreed

But, I do like the idea of being able to use thedroid to browse inventory on the vendor back at the merchant's shop. If it carries real time inventory information, that would be a real blessing for merchants. Plop one of those babies down next to the bazaar and steer a ton of traffic to your shop...

Chris



~ Liavuss Mekka of Chilastra ~
darkmane
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:56 pm
#57

Ok, I know this is a minor issue, but I don't think you have to feed pets every 40 minutes. Could you eplain the rational behind not making droid charges last as long as pet feedings?
TheRealTK421
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:56 pm
#58

Positive and constructive 'Anti-Break-down' now commencing....

A two-parter (had to be that way, sorry...I'm being good, I promise).


/bow

Respectfully,












Thunderheart wrote:


Publish 7: Droid Invasion


Droid Engineer Issues Addressed:


  • Wound Repair Kit


I'm sure you'll hear this 1000 times, soo...

Does "Wound repair" relate specifically to the droid's white HAM "damage" or black wounds (the wording above is sort of ambiguous on the distinction)?

Whentalking healing, make sure to use "wounds" for the black stuff and "damage" for the white HAM damage. This is how I see it (and hear it)referred to 99% of the time. DEs really want to be clear on this (since our clients will ask 1000 times too).



  • Droid Battery consumption rate halved (enabling them to last twice as long)


Yummy. As a side-note, will battery life itself be affected by experimentation (i.e. a 100% Effectiveness battery would give the absolute full battery life possible but a 50% would give you 50% time)? I think it would be fair and correct to have battery life be partially affected by experimentation in this way. All DE 'end products' should be. It lets us really compete better on the quality 'battlefield'.



  • Droids will no longer be susceptible to poisons, bleeds, /warcry or /intimidate


Honestly...I never saw this much to begin with...but it sounds good to me. One exception might be the following:

99.9% of the time, when I see ANY droid in the game, it has 100% HAM health. Always.


I would say that it might actually be okay for there to be some kind of 'Leak' or 'A screw falls out' system. Droids should decay (like most other crafted products)....no?



A basic overview of the combat module functionality looks like this:



  • Combat Droids will have all the fighting functionality of a regular combat-capable creature (CL10)


Okay...we all knew this was coming...but it's good to know for sure.



  • These options will function like creature pets.


Errr....meaning we "Program" the droid command and deliver it as we would any other or...?!?

Bit confused on this.



  • All players will have the ability to own and operate these combat droids.


Yummy.


  • All players will now be able to have both a CL10 creature pet and a CL10 combat droid called out at the same time.


Uh. Double-yummy.



  • Combat Droids will be crafted.


Will we still be using the "Tame" command for them? (okay...even though it's a break-down, I still get to have a sense of humor.)


Seriously...if it's at all possible, in this pass, can we get an...."Assemble" command (or something else)for the droid deeds? It just kind of sounds better than "Tame". I dunno. /shrug



  • A combat droid is a droid that is capable of attacking things, in addition to other potential droid capabilities that can be added to droids currently.


So...it might also be built as part-combat and part-service. Cool. Lots o' configurations there for the droid clients. More design freedom means we can offer more of exactly what a particular would want in a certain model. R2-A-La-Carte.



  • The normal crafting process is used, and a combat module is included in the droid.

  • Combat module will only mount in droids capable of combat. They can be placed in one of the general droid module slots that already exist on the droid chassis’, seen during the crafting of the droid.


Can you say when we will get a set list of the droids that WILL (or will not) allow for combat-modules?


I'm sure DEs would like to be able to get the set list of combat / non-combat models and chassis. Or...is this still up for discussion? If so, let us know.



  • Combat module is crafted in exactly the same fashion as other droid modules, using a draft schematic, resource ingredients, and previously crafted component ingredients.


Uhhh...just to verify, we'll be able to factory-make these as well, yes? You only listed draft schematics above, that's why I ask.



  • Combat modules can be crafted at varying quality levels, which can be seen when the module is examined.


Triple-Yummy. Thank you.



  • Combat modules stack and if more than one of them is placed in a single droid, they have a cumulative effect.


Just like our current armor, Item and Data modules. Right on. I guess that's kind of expected.



  • To have the strongest combat droid, six 100% combat modules must be used in constructing a droid.


Hmmm....do they all have to the SAME module type?

Uncertainty: Is there a working list (that you can share with us) on the specific combat modules that are being considered? Or is there just one single one that can be 'set' to run in a particular way. Or...is this up for discussion?








End - Pt. 1

/bow

Respectfully,




TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"
SWG DE Correspondent
Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."


TheRealTK421
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:57 pm
#59

Part 2 - Transmission commencing...








Publish 8: Droids Rebuilt


Droid Engineer Issues Addressed:



  • Droid HAM Experimentation to make droids more powerful has been implemented


I love you. /rose



  • Display for power meter


Sweet. EVERY user of a droid in the game thanks you for this.



  • Droid Customization Kit

    - kit useable by anyone
    - customization lasts longer

    - customization during building of the droid chassis will remain in place when the droid is deeded (i.e. DE selects color at the chassis stage and it stays that way, such that when a client tames the deed, the droid's color is already set....including the first white box. )?????

    Can I talk you into that too, please? If not, that's cool. I guess that players can just do it themselves...if I can keep the paint tools on my vendor (which I won't be able to...since someone will just buy them all. )


  • Customized appearances for Droid Deeds so that Droid Engineers can display the models they sell.


Thank you. This will let me finally finish my "Green BLL" droid cantina at my place. Right now..it's just a lonely barkeep LE Repair droid.





It is still an early look, but here is our goal for Droid Modules:


Entertainer module: Entertainers would get a certification so that only they could use this droid (no combat functionality is added so its different that the combat certs).



Errr...just to clarify...

If a droid gets an Entertainer module, the droid can NOT have a combat module installed in it.

Or...

This module is only for non-combat-specific droid chassis types?

There's a pretty big difference there.



This module would allow an entertainer to queue one of 10 different new effects (smoke, lighting, etc.) The advantage is that the droid won’t consume entertainers HAM (just batteries).


Since I'm not an Entertainer....is this a good thing?

Do they have these effects now but they just take HAM? If so, I guess I can see how this would be a cool thing.



Each module will represent a different effect. So with 10 different effects, there will be 10 Entertainer modules which means the higher level droids with more module slots will be more useful for queuing different effects.


OOHhhhh.....I need to get my R3 Adv chassis manufacturing schematics going, then.

This is starting to sound like a pretty good thing.


Merchant Barker module: This would give droids the ability to bark advertisements, give waypoints to shops, have additional information available so players could list prices, services, etc through a radial menu command.


Excellent.....

As a side-note to this: Could we somehow include the possibility of 'factioning' the droid's information? This could be quite a possibility with regard to building player contect. Example: You could set a droid as 'rebel' (if the player is factioned as such) and it would give no information or false information to an Imp player. I'm not sure if others would think it "fun"...just tossing it off the top of my head.

One thing that I know will come up with regard to this module is...

The ability for Merchants to have the called and in-game when they are logged. It doesn't do quite as much good (I wouldn't think) for it only to be available when they are playing. Maybe I don't know enough about how you all see this working yet.


Covert Detector Module: The covert detector module would allow a droid to detect and disable a covert detector in an area.


Yummy.


Exploding Module: This combat ability would consume a droid in a fixed damage blast.


I'm hoping that you are planning on building this such that DE experimentation will affect the 'quality' of the blast (i.e. a yucky bomb module only gives you a little 'poof'.."What?!?! A dud!).

In addition, I might suggest that the highest level bomb module require a part from a different profession (which has come up before).



These changes in addition to combat droid modules and utility modules will address 8 of the 10 Droid Engineers’ Questions.


Okay...this kind of throws me. 8 of 10?

Which where the 2 that were unanswered...and is there an ETA for those?


We are very interested in hearing what people have to say throughout this discussion. I’ll post follow-up threads on In Dev and In Concept for each main topic.


Right on...see ya there.






/bow


Respectfully awaiting the arrival of new 'funky' droid goodness,






TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"
SWG DE Correspondent
Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."


Recsa
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:57 pm
#60

Tell me if i have understood it:

NO COMBAT DROIDS BEYOND CL10 ????
Just like the nonCH pets ???

So still no SW why not droping a few certs on the combat professions? like 1 or 2 specific droids for each profession? Droidekas and such, come on this is SW, remember 2 droids were the true main players.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
HARD can be different to GRIND
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JediMasterCarlito
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:57 pm
#61



"Merchant Barker module: This would give droids the ability to bark advertisements, give waypoints to shops, have additional information available so players could list prices, services, etc through a radial menu command."


This has made my day! I was hoping one day we'd get this. Thanks Devs.






Vamir Daba Hermit of Naboo Eclipse
Sarynn Daba Jedi Knight Eclipse

Star Wars Galaxies Developers: "Much work remains to be done before we can announce our total failure to make any progress."

ArdenStarmariner
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:59 pm
#62

Well, these publishes will give a temporary boost. Here's how I see things happening on Eclipse as a result:

1. Utility droids will sell pretty good for awhile until everyone has what they need of the new features. But since droids never wear out, the market for them will eventually drop off. Combat is the main event in the game. The further your market is from it, the lower your profit potential is.

2. The bluk of the Eclipse player population is out on the outer planets. Dantooine is packed. In fact, so many players are there that the whole planet is lag city. Also crowded are Dathomir and Endor somewhat. Folks at that skill level have no use for a CL10 anything, droid or otherwise.

3. The "pure crafters" that have won the day today and gotten what they want, will move on in 3 or 4 months when they burn out and either switch professions or cancel account. And they will be leaving those of us that wanted the hybrid solution with the mess they got the DEV's to create.

So from the way this has gone, our new utility droids are two tiers away from the combat market. We sell to people who are one tier away from combat and supply the combatant's needs directly. Combatants have no need for what we produce directly. That eliminates us from the biggest market in the game.

I just can't see why so many DE's are getting excited about new features for which the market demand will be limited and short lived. Guess you will find out soon enough tho.




Arden Starmariner - Master Jedi, Smugglers' Alliance Privateer Ace - Eclipse.
Nemok Starmariner - Elder Commando - Eclipse.
Warrhawk
Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:00 pm
#63

TH and Just G, thank you for getting this out to us.



Querkus Warhawk / Master Droid Engineer--Gorath Server

Fine purveyor of Droids since launch
Located on Corellia, in Falcon Crest City in the mall by the shuttleport
BH Droids ALWAYS in stock
And in the CMG Mall outside Naboo -3746,3914

Killermuppet
Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:00 pm
#64

Please for the love a Pete, Just make Droid experimentation work now.


Started a thread on the droid engineer board about this very topic. Hate wasting resources and time on a system that doesn't work. Even the top line of our experimentation (can't remember it right this second) doesn't even give you the opportunity to put points in it, it starts at 0%.







Priss Asagiri
Master Droid Engineer / Novice Musician
Flurry / Kaadara

A look can be Decieving,
A touch can be Lethal.
ErantiaPrym
Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:01 pm
#65

Utility Droid Summary
================

I've gone throught the entire Droid Invasion Thread and summarized everything I could find regarding utility droids.


Utility droids could be able to do the following kinds of things:


Existing Profession Abilities

* Provide rudimentary survey (not gather resources) ability. This basically gives someone the ability to survey at the cost of one of their two (minimum) droid slots.
* Survey droid that automatically find resources. Similar to survey + automatic tasks. Possibly make 4 different versions.
* Mine resources. Mining droids exist in the SW universe. If we treat mining droids as mobile harvesters with additional features, like options to mine the most minerals (for grind materials based off the current highest percentage), the best minerals (based on the OQ), or just a particular specified type (so if it changes from iron A to iron B the droid keeps going). Possible drawbacks -- they could consume lots, might have smaller containers than fixed harvesters, might only function while you're online, and/or are limited by droid slots.
* Provide basic healing services (heal damage/heal wound/entertainment). They could be "charged" by giving them appropriate damage/wound packs. I would expect their healing levels would vary but not be any more useful than a basic damage/woundpack. Note: I don't see this competing with medics -- I don't like to waste Woundpack Cs on minor wounds.
* Auto harvest/loot
* Provide basic area track facilities. They could hunt down animals for your explore missions.
* Hide contraband. I'm not sure, but I think droid storage compartments already do this.
* Enhanced jedi tracking. Possibly allow a jedi to be "locked on" for permanent tracking.
* Unlock maglocks and locked containers.


New Features

* Power droids that really power other droids (and don't need charging themselves -- power droids should be battery replacements). Might also be able to power a factory.
* Remotely manage harvestors. Obviously server-to-server communication is an issue here for remote management. I suppose you could have a droid attached to the factory (assign droid option in factory menu) -- the droid would be transferred to the factory and would be visible whenever the factory was loaded. The droid would only manage the harvester and would provide programmed notifications to its owner as well as receive /tells (or maybe a new communication method via a communicator item)? One suggestion was to have a power droid "filter" power so that 100 power added to the droid could become 125 power maintenance
* Carry costumes. A droid tailored to carry your costume changes. Right now I store all of my spare clothes in my droid so they avoid decay but still have them available. A droid that made costume changes simple -- perhaps a visual display of the costume you intend on wearing? I know a lot of people do this by hand by dropping the costume in their homes, but an important part of SWG (especially as an entertainer) is looking the part -- I have at least 3 costumes I need to wear and I would like to wear more.
* Communicate Information. Similar to vendors, provide information about the area, such as in cities, in response to converse. Similar to the features mission giving NPCs provide.
* Handle language translation. Why bother teaching languages to other people -- let the droids do translations for you. Also, NPCs should speak particular languages.
* Vendor delivery. Right now I have to give users access to my factory or house so they can get their goods -- why can't droids do that for me?
* Act as a vendor. The vendor droid could follow a route but provide standard vendor services. Would count as a vendor slot.
* Repair things. Suggestion is to make them better than current repair tools (no failures). Might also reduce factory maintenance costs.
* Provide combat enhancement. Could increase user's accuracy or damage like a powerup.
* React to things. Droids can also be programed to do things when particular events occur. Example: When you die you droids auto store and your Protocol Droid Greets you and tells you that He has taken the liberty to Reinsure your stuff and gives you the option to Clone at that location.
* Remotely visit places for you #1: If you are in a city you can have your Protocol Droid Perform Tasks such as Visit the Skill Trainer or Pick up a travel Ticket or Visit the Junk Dealer or Visit the Recruiter or Bank or Bazzar. And while you are in the Cantina or Med Center it can do those tasks and you just wait for him. (Basicly you get all the menus from the Droid and Wait X amount of time to have the tasks preformed [The droid just disappears for X amount of time it does not travel around the city.] when it returns you have the ticket or are now overt or have the credits from the bank.)
* Remotely visit places for you #2: You can also have droids Visit your Harvestors or House and Pay maintenence or deliver and pickup Items. You would need the right modules and sometimes multiple droids. Such that Your BLL and R2 unit visit your house and Pay the Maintence and Pick up X items.
* Remotely visit places for you #3: Perhaps just provides remote access to your house as if it was a container.
* Move houses with items in it. (Binary Load Lifters) Also good for someone looking to rearrange a town.
* Make things. Why not have portable factory droids? Would be slower and probably hold less -- perhaps should consume a lot.


Combat Related
* Remove owners from combat (aggro removal for doctors)
* Revive incapped players. Perhaps once per combat.
* Revive players. Perhaps once per combat.
* Detect covert Imps or Rebels.
* Disrupt turrets.
* Enhance your radar view (for features and seeing your friends).
* Cloak your group from the radar.
* Reduce poison and disease effects. Either time or could just automatically perform an area of effect (or by commanded).
* Place and remove explosives. Good against minefields and turrets.
* Feed pets. Should have a food storage indicator.


Bonuses

* Provide bonuses to existing skills: +wound treatment speed, +wound treatment, +intimdation, +range defense, +survey range, +mask scent, +chef experimentation, +X experimentation, +DNA sample, opponent defense negative, +CH tame, +image design features, +slicing, +tactical options, +armor, +creature knowledge, +wound healing (music/dancing), +restraint, +advertising, +num of city specializations
* New bonuses: Duration bonus to enhancements (buffs)
* Provide the capability for entertainers to entertain outside a cantina. Obvious concerns are about cantinas becoming empty (similar to med droids and med centers).
* Collect tips.
* Reduce vehicle repair costs. Usable at a garage.


New Standard droid features and modules:

* Battery Level Indicator. Similar to the stomach indicator, I'd like to know just how much time is left on my droid's battery.
* Stimpack Level Indictator. If droids do start requiring charges of stimpacks or whatever to work an indicator for that would be ideal.
* Reduce Color Fading. General feeling is that ever 20 uses is too often. Perhaps eliminate it completely.
* Enhanced droid speed module.
* Increased item/data storage capacity module. Additional modules provide additional storage.
* Module allowing droid to be controlled at an increased ranged.
* Be programable via macros. Could be limited to number of commands by brain size.


Suggestions on Limitations:

* Droids limited by skill (higher CL by achieving master, then elite master skill)
* Droids limited by lots
* Droids limited to one of each chassis type (which would be restricted to function)
* Squad Leaders/Bounty Hunter certifications
* Special handler tree
* Certs for mods, not droids
* Droids could require high maintenance (weapons, energy, resources, etc.)
* Might have a decay rate
* Might be restricted by a number of allowable "droid points"


Other Comments:

* Droid Repair Kit. Droids also need to be able to be repaired.
* Droid chassis should mean something. Mouse droids should not have storage and astromech droids should not provide advanced medical capabilities. Optionally, provide bonuses for medical droids with medical facilities, etc.
* Droid users should be able to name their own droids. Currently they can only do this at deeding time. In the books users typically named their droids after the behavior they exhibited for a while after getting them. Perhaps only advanced droids can be named?
* Up the limit to two (or more) non-combat droids out at any time?
* Droid batteries don't last long enough.
* Why not create droid characters? Droids were the focus of the movies, why not the game?
* Droids should be really customizable (goes against chassis argument) so users have feeling of droid ownership.
* Add more droid interaction at spaceports (announcing availability of shuttle) and at garages.
* Any ideas on the implementation of a Restraining Bolt?
* Maybe each chassis would have a default capability?
* Droid engineers should be able to "reprogram" droids -- i.e. change modules after the fact


Concerns:

* We all want to see a lot more droids in the game. The big concern is that these droids (if we get the behavior we're going for) should be more prolific than vehicles. The server (and clients) need to be able to handle this additional load. Perhaps provide a feature to "ignore" non-combat droids?


Bria: Erantia Prym -- Self-Proclaimed Utility Droid Advocate

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