Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droids: Where we were and where we’re going.
MurienAquarius wrote:
Also, Sketh and some other folks had GREAT ideas about immersive personality chips, and Smuggler-related slicing modules that were just too cool. There are a lot of ideas out there, we really need to present ALL of them while we are getting some attention!! Take it easy peeps.
With an intro like that, how can I not respond?
There is a thread here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=63694
That has a lot of immersive personality chip ideas from a number of people 
I am pleasantly surprised by much of this. I think the probot should allow the 6 module combat capability. maby it could have combat modiule only slots.
I hope, that if we can not get a max droid level cert in. that we can at least, get a cert for more droids in data pad and more droids 'out'. DEs have nedded this since day one.
Thunderheart wrote:
(There is the third angle of doing both by adding in the combat droids with the certification, but that’s a lot messier than it seems. I’ll try to explain it in a post this week or next, but I want to keep it out of this post so as not to further confuse the issue).
I think we should confuse the issue, early on here, in a timely manner. While theres time to benifit from the confusion, in time for the Droid Invasion patches. Im not confident that somthing else wont get in the way agian. as it did for publish 6. Of anything planned after publish 8.
- I understand the 'checker' issue.
- I understand the 'dabbler' issue.
- I understand 'DEs needs customers'.
- I understand 'pure crafters'.
- I understand 'Hybrid needs'.
I have a plan.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=59251&page=1
Its a framework, for a 'distributed' cert system
It adds no cert 'checkers' to any existing skill boxes having any combat power of thier own.
A dabbler cannot reach the maximum cert. And a full cert will cost more than master CH.
Yet a 'customer' can start getting a limited cert with 35 skillpoints.
Pure crafters as well could benifit from a the cert for high level utility droids. (and thier hybrid competition will be too busy out hunting to spoil thier biz)
This will give DEs a combat option that could be up to as powerfull as CHs. (at a greater skillpoint cost). And empower other checkerless crafters (who will find the certs 'closer to home') to varying degrees. As well as allow any one at a cost to bring droids into thier play.
This will not solve all SWG ills. But it will solve the 'droid cert' issue without I'll effect. While Balancing checkerless DEs And, Bringing checkerless crafters closer to balance. This would leave Entertainers and BEs without checkers. And non DE craftsman with checker needs. But it would help. and the other remaining imbalances could be dealt with in non droid invasion patches.
I like the new module additions (entertainer, Merchant, etc.) More stuff like this will make droids a fun addition to every profession -- which, I think, is a large portion of what DEs wanted.
I don't know why one needs to be an entertainer to usea droid with a fun smoke effect, but I can live with that. It seems like it would be easier (code-wise)to let anyone use the thing (of course it wouldn't provide any benefits to non-Entertainers), and then let the customers naturally gravitate toward the droids/modules that are useful to them. Just like how anybody can *own* a droid with a structure/furniture crafting station, but only architects get muchbenefit out of it. And anyone can *own* a droid with a medical module, but only medics benefit from it.
You didn't mention whether the ad-barking droid was Merchant-only, but again I think anyone should be able to own/use any droid, though some might get more or less benefits based on their skills. I can see a combat character who'd like a barking droid to shout out his guild's name / motto while the group is fighting, like a battle-herald.
I am also somewhat unclear on how combat droids are any more of an "extra checker" than armor, buffs, spice, food,and other purchasable consumables. Certainly the extra HAM of a good doctor's buffand 80% resists of decent composite armor are more of an advantage than a decent combat droid...
Here's some math:
*Good natural HAM = 1000
* Good doctor's buff = +3000
* Good spice = +500
* Good food/drink combo = +1000 (maybe more, I haven't seen the new stuff yet)
* Good armor = Light 80% (which really translates into 90% damage reduction from most attacks), or the equivalent of x10 HAM.
So, someone with all of the above "free checkers" has an ACTUAL 5500 HAM, anda VIRTUAL 55,000 HAM (counting the armor). This HAM is healable by medics at an equivalent x10 rate (because of the armor's effects).
Even if a combat droid had the 8100 HAM necessary (with 40% medium armor) to be an equivalent bonus in the fight, droids cannot (currently) be healed during the fight so this HAM is much less of an ongoing benefit -- droids are ablative HAM, once hurt, they recover too slowly to be used in the next wave of combat.
So I find the "free checkers" argument to be a bit weak. There are plenty of checkers in the game that do not require a player to spend skill points.
There are already rules that let powerful combatants pierce through armor with special skills or damage types. Why not apply this "checker cancellation" option to all checkers?
Here are some examples:
* Extra Checker: Spice / Counter: Contraband scans make it risky to carry, short durations make it risky to use in ongoing fight.
* Extra Checker: Food / Counter: Puking up after spice debuff also debuffs food. (Chef buffs may have the least counterability since that is pretty much the chef's sole purpose in the game.)
* Extra Checker: Doctor's Buff / Counter: Combat medics throwing anti-buff packs.
* Extra Checker: Combat Droids / Counter: Jammers that operate like a weapon but prevent a droid from acting. Give this to a non-combatant like an artisan and now they have a reason to participate in the fight. The more jamming artisans present, the more droids your group can jam.
* Extra Checker: Creature Pets / Counter: Ranger traps restrain the pets for a time.
Basically, all I'm saying is that there are many "extra checkers" in this game. If the devs are clever (or willing to ask their thousands of clever players) they can come up with more interesting ways to limit them than simply giving these unbalancingcheckers to a subset of players.
It's the "lets make it cost skill points" mindset that leads to things like defense stacking templates and CH dabblers. When the extra checkers go to a sub-set of the player base, then thepower players will in time gravitate to the best checkers in the game. Any benefit that is available to all is not a balance issue, it is just an ease-of-twinking issue.
Of course, you do know why this got posted today -
I just finished updating the Droid Owner's Manual... 
OrionsByte wrote:
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Ok, I know this is probably not all the modules DEs will get, but I do have a question:
DEs have proposed lots of new utility droid functions, many of which are "enhancement" functions. Ex: Slicing modules that give a bonus to slicing, crafting modules that give a bonus to experimentation, dancing modules that give a bonus to entertainment healing and buffing, etc.
You have continually posted on this issue, stating that we can't have modules like this to put in droids and sell because this is an "extra checker" that doesn't cost any skill points.
Shortly thereafter, the information about the Chef revamp came out, and Chefs got a bunch of foods that do the EXACT thing that you told us the devs would never agree to because they are "extra checkers."
Why is this ok for chef foods, but not for DE modules? Droids require funds for people to buy, batteries to keep them running, and always have a danger of being destroyed after they are called... Considering how cheap food is, why isn't this balance enough for us to have "enhancement" droid modules?
We REALLY want droids that people will want and use, and enhancement is the only way we can have that... Why won't the devs consider enhancement modules for us?
p.s. PLEASE stop posting in HTML...it makes it impossible to reply to your posts, and it jacks everything up.
The big difference, IMHO, is that the chef food is consumable. You use it a few times, then it's gone. Same thing, kind of, with skill tapes. The clothes you put them in degrade and eventually you don't have the skill tape anymore. The lifetime is much, much longer than food or spice though, so you'll never see a skill tape that gives a +200 health bonus or something; that would be too permanent and would become unbalancing.
.........................
Consumable? Droids may not get burned up, butthey do ONLY work if powered...
What's the difference between food that you have to eat every 15 minutes, and a droid that only works if you feed it a droid battery every 15 minutes?
Both food and batteries are consumable, both have to be used often, both are cheap. There is no difference.
As for the +200 thing...that isn't what DEs are asking for...I module that gives a 1% to 3% bonus to slicing/experimentation/etc would be perfect.
This is already in the game...
/bow
OrionsByte wrote:
TheRealTK421 wrote:
<< Random blatherings from what some consider to be an insane Wookiee freak...>>
I think he just said that knowing that as soon as he said he was giving a certification to a profession, he'd get a hundred people asking why, if entertainers can get certs, why can't there be certs for combat droids?
Yes...this will probably come up. It's a bit different for Ents. though, since this specific applies to a utility certification. Maybe that's a good way to make the distinction (utility certs vs. combat certs).
My interpretation is that you could build a droid that had both the entertainment AND combat modules in it, but the entertainment module would require an entertainer certification in order to use it. However, utility certs are different than combat certs, and combat certs are still not being considered.
Yes...this might be the case. It would be good to know. If an Ent. sold their droid to a non-Ent., the new buyer would need to have a way to know that they could only use half the features of the droid (the combat ones).
Other than that, good positive breakdown, TK421.
Doing what I can to keep it real...that's all. /tiphat
Respectfully,
I am so making crates of MSE bombs... But that does bring up a potential concern, more turret griefing.
Player sets up out of turret range, targes the turret and just lets MSE bomb after MSE bomb fly.
Just something for Devs to think about as they implement this.
For the love of all that's gadgety, PLEASE give the Binary Load Lifter some UNIQUE combat ability/addon (such as gun attachments to replace its forklift, it ain't got to be visible, my suspension of disbelief still works).
I would LOVE to see the BLL have some PROMINENT COMBAT USE.
Aside from that, the 6 combat module stackin' thing bothers me, but I'm sure (knocks on wood) that will be fleshed out.
Aside from ALL that, it's better than nothing.
Gairnok wrote:
Oh one more thing.. Barker droids? I mentaly groan when I think of starports filled with droids shouting at messages constantly. Visions of HUGE LAG, come to mind.
I'm hoping that when they implement this, they do the following: whena player gets near it the droid barks for that player only, and thus no one else hears the barking. much like when player is chatting with an NPC, usually nobody hears what the NPC says except for the player. otherwise, it would be a serious lag problem in major starports.