Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Droid Decay System 2.0
Knapf
Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:45 am
#53
I'm really Don't think the idea of droids decaying like a rifle makes a lot of sense. I am all for making things that will dacay and give us a renewable market, but I would rather see mods decay and only a DE can change them. Make Droids like lightsabers in that the droid stays the same but DEs and DEs only can add and remove modules even after the droid is built. Make it so that their armor can be upgaded and damaged like a suit of armor and needs to be replaced. this would make far more sense then a droid that dies after a month of use. I mean I know they are not sticking to movie content but DidR2-D2 decay in all the years he has been around? I would love to see someone walk into my shop and tell me their droid is damaged and needs to be repaired, or needs a new armor mod or wants to change out the food crafting station for a weapon station. We would sell Mods and get business just based off upgrade alone. and when a new set of mods comes out. the droid gets an upgrade. or maybe newer models can only be upgraded. Make droids more like computers are today. Some things can be upgraded some things can't . It would make old droids still useful and also make new droids more sort after. Maybe a time decay in them that the older a droid gets the lets level mods you can upgrade. like make mods different levels and as a droid gets older some mods can still be changed out and others can't ..
just making a droid run out after time is like getting a car that you don't have to fill up but can only drive it for say 6 months.
just me.
Danoran
TheRealTK421
Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:52 am
#54
Just a quick head's up here...
Knapf wrote:
DEs and DEs only can add and remove modules even after the droid is built.
I don't see any type of decay system ever happening that includes adding/changing the installed modules. Whatever will happen will likely be quite close to what Drashk has put forth.
Note: I say the above as ME....not as a "Corr". It's just my opinion.
/bow
Respectfully,
Rywo
Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:26 am
#55
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Just a quick head's up here...
Knapf wrote:
DEs and DEs only can add and remove modules even after the droid is built.
I don't see any type of decay system ever happening that includes adding/changing the installed modules. Whatever will happen will likely be quite close to what Drashk has put forth.
Note: I say the above as ME....not as a "Corr". It's just my opinion.
/bow
Respectfully,
I was under the impression that is is almost exactly what they were doing with ships for JtLS. It was my understanding that ships could have parts damaged, but the ship itself is never actually destroyed. If I'm right in my thinking, this shouldn't be too diffcult to transfer over to DE. Just as was stated above, I'd really love it if I could run my business where after making a custom droid for someone and earning a customers respect, that they would return to me for repairs and or upgrades to their droids down the road.
Just seems like a more realistic system to me...
Knapf
Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:28 am
#56
Well Not sure why a decay system would be hard for droid mods when jedi have it for Crystals. I know droids are different and touch different parts of the game .. It just seems a decay system of the droid itself seems wrong and counter productive to the class.
Knapf
Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:37 am
#57
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Rywo wrote:
I was under the impression that is is almost exactly what they were doing with ships for JtLS.
Hmmm...That's true. I guess we can keep this on the burner. Maybe it would be a 'phase 2' thing. /shrug
I know that Drashk as some suggestions that are a bit like this (with regard to replacing a fully decayed / disabled droid). I had thought that might be about as far as we'd go on this point.
The whole point of having a decay system for droids is that more than just one module would decay and need replacement.
We are looking to increase the replacement of full droids.....................are we not?
If that's the case, we shouldn't focus on a decay system that only allows for replacement of just ONE module.
Yes? No?
No one stated that it had to be ONE mod, Why not ALL the mods, Make items that would need decay get it.. like Armor or combat mods. Make Droids batteies decay and can only be replaced by a DE.
It sounds like youare basing this Decay Solely on Greed. I am ALL for a renewable market (making tires that last for ever would put tire companys out of business) But lets be more proactive and not kill the droid all together. There is almost no market for the droids we have now. Remember the more we make droids Un-user friendly the less people will want them.
They still get a level 10 pet and it will be a better tanker then any driod we can make. No batteries required.
And in some cases they get to ride it.
Just seems like a more realistic system to me...
We all know that realism doesn't always have a place in SWG.
I'm good to go on adding module replacement on decayed droids if you all are behind it, of course.
I just seems to me that the reason we got this all going was as a way to make sure that we saw sales of full replacment droids occur...not just adding in a new module once in awhile
Decay of a system seems to be more palatable then killing the droid all together. We want to make droids something a player would want to own, not look to avoid all together. With this decay system, droids would be looked at more like Bic lighters and less like an item that they really want to own.
/bow
Respectfully,
Message Edited by Knapf on 07-14-2004 11:46 AM
IceTigger
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:00 pm
#58
Can not always get back to the forums on a timely bases. Don’t get me wrong, droid decay is a necessary evil. I am just concerned that this proposal will cause more problems then solutions.
I have to presume that the vitality loss for creatures is as Drashk stated, as I have not used creature pets. That would explain the high price for creatures that only creature handlers can use. I am sure Bio-engineers would love better repeat customers just as Droid Engineers do. The statements suggests that even for creatures, the decay rate is very slow and it is likely that Creature Handlers can use the same creature several times longer then a weapon or suite of armor. It is my though that droids and creature pets should decay about equally and should reflect the risks that the droid or creature is placed in. Apparently, the current decay system is not as rapid as is desired and it does not affect droids or creatures not taken into combat.
Prices of droids are very relevant to the decay system. From the contents of this post and others; it is clear that droids are being sold at 20 to 40 times the cost to build the droid (in raw resources based on cost to run harvesters). The price structure reflects the fact that droid decay (epically for non-combat droids) is very slow. For maximized droids, players are willing to pay because they know the droid will basically last forever. Anything less, the price better be rock bottom because it becomes a throw away item until they can afford the maximized version.
The aggressive system proposed will not likely generate repeat customers, by itself. As long as prices of droids remains as high as it is, people will demand that they last a long time or they will stop using droids all together.
TheRealTK421
Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:29 pm
#59
/bow
IceTigger wrote:
Prices of droids are very relevant to the decay system. From the contents of this post and others; it is clear that droids are being sold at 20 to 40 times the cost to build the droid (in raw resources based on cost to run harvesters).
I've seen evidence to show that some Armorsmiths / Weaponsmiths are seeing 50-100 times the build cost for their products.
The price structure reflects the fact that droid decay (epically for non-combat droids) is very slow.
Actually, there isn't really "decay" for non-combat droids at all. Thus, the very reason for this proposal...well, part of it anyway.
For maximized droids, players are willing to pay because they know the droid will basically last forever.
Hmmm....maybe. I bet that some folk would be happy to pay for droids even if they didn't last forever.
Money isn't exactly super hard to come by, especially over the course of 2-4 months of playing.
Anything less, the price better be rock bottom because it becomes a throw away item until they can afford the maximized version.
This depends a lot on the mentality of the buyer in relation to where they place importance or "value" on the item.
The aggressive system proposed will not likely generate repeat customers, by itself. As long as prices of droids remains as high as it is, people will demand that they last a long time or they will stop using droids all together.
I don't see people that use droids now stopping. They will likely have gotten use to having the features and benefits droids bring.
Also...
Bear in mind that the decay system proposed has a lot of 'outs' to keep the droid owner from needing to pay full price for a new droid. We are, in a way, shifting our recurring sales from droids over to 'repair kits' but that's partly okay.
My point here is that the system allows for droid owners to have control over how long their droid "lasts". It's not as if we are taking that away from them...just altering it to more closely fit how droids should be.
Respectfully,
Knapf
Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:28 pm
#60
Ok to break it down to Brass tacks, TK
You feel a decay system like this will be a boon to the Droid community. I (in my humbleopinion) feel there are better ways to make our market thrive with out making droids break down, ( I noticed to avoided the Movie reference) I do see a market for what we craft, heck! I CAN'T think of star wars without thinking "droids".My feeling ( and I maybe alone in this. as you pointed out you have the Pluse of the DE community in your hands) is thatDroids can and should be less like the guns you are trying to make them and more like the pets/servents that they are portrayed in the moives. I feel I amcomparing apples to apples when it comes to droids and CH pets. True they do different thingsbut game wise they are not much different at all. They don't have to be for fighting but can help a doctor with healing or a Smith withhis/her craft, where as a Pet is more or less for either tanking a mob or moving you from point A to B. But there are enough similarities between them to make a good comparison.
Droids have Vitality as do pets ( which was also pointed out in the forum) and level like pets. Yet pets don't decay or do they? as Vitility goes down so does the pets abiltiy to tank and do damage. Is this not a decay system for driods as well? Doesn't the Vitality system decay droids somewhat.? True if a dancer never gets into a fight then where is the decay for her droid?
This is the fulcrum of the problem.
How does the droid market get return customers? Decay can be a way, but is it the best way? Is decay of the droids or the modules more or less painful for the end user?
I know you stated that it's not about the money, butyou know it is. Why would a DE wantdecay of droids if not to sell more of them.
Which is fine. My point is not trying to take money out of the hands of deservingDEs but to make what people buy worth coming back to get it again.
You feel there are lots of useful droids for players to reach for. I feel that most playersdon'treach for a droid to further there class save Doctors and BountyHunters because there are few really good items a droid cando to make them worth while toown,
This is so much like the computer field in that once you have hit maximumsaturation of a market then the only repeat business is the support of thosesystems sold. So toforce clientsinto a repeatbusinesswe add a system that makes thedroid slowly breakdown.This too would be fine ifit were component based butmaking clients buy a whole new droid every few monthsis only going to make people move away from getting droids altogether.. And No one uses a droid as much as they use aweapon. Save doctors.
I would say if you want to focus on the droid market look to thenovice DE who is having a hard time selling what he/she makes. (but that is off topic)
I feel there can be alot of good to come form a form of decay but droids don't rot when they get older they just need to get repaired.
/bow2
Danoran
Ke_la
Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:56 pm
#61
I like the Idea but I think that the Droid should only take an Integrity hit a recharge IF the Droid is below 50% power thus Incressing the use of batteries for thoughs that want to protect there droids. Also if the Droid reaches a power lvl of 0% the droid along with lossing most of its functionality (Data/Iteam Storage only work, maybe Crafting) they also take Intagerity Damage Over Time hit (looking for an "i" word to place between Damage and Over) of 1 point every few minutes. More often if Crafting stations don't shutdown without power.
Ke_la
Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:58 pm
#62
I like the Idea but I think that the Droid should only take an Integrity hit a recharge IF the Droid is below 50% power thus Incressing the use of batteries for thoughs that want to protect there droids. Also if the Droid reaches a power lvl of 0% the droid along with lossing most of its functionality (Data/Iteam Storage only work, maybe Crafting) they also take Intagerity Damage Over Time hit (looking for an "i" word to place between Damage and Over) of 1 point every few minutes. More often if Crafting stations don't shutdown without power.
I mean if your Car runs completly out of gas it does sugnificant Damage to the car same should be true with droids If your not doing proper maintance (keeping it charged) it should get damaged
Straker_Atrella
Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:54 pm
#63
Wow that was a lot of reading to get caught up on.
1. Let's start with the "Droid Cookie Cutter" mentality. It seems that a lot of people thingk that all DE vendors are pretty much identical, I disagree, perhaps that used to be the case, but not anymore. Sure perhaps our Med, Storage, crafting and other generic models may have the same abilities, but a good DE gives plenty of options on Chasis and color to liven things up.
Even with combat droids there is variance, not everybody makes max HAM or MAX combat ratings. Now with the addition of the Auto-Repair module, there is variety to be had here as well.
On Stimpacks and some of the newer modules, how you experiment does matter, adding variety.
Sure all DE's have access to the same resourcesin that galaxy,but what if I harvest 300k, and he only got 50k? I will outlast him.
Plus something else to consider is that "awesome amazing assembly" the one that gets you better statseven with the same resources. By doing this, my Combat Droids, Detonation Droids, and Harvesting droids can be better then anybody elses.
I run a busy vendor, if all droids are the same, why do people come to mine, instead of all of the others out there?
By all means, make experimentation matter more on new modules, such as the JTL ones. Variation is good. I just disagree that the entire droid crafting system needs changed because all droids are the same.
2. I'll say it again, any system of Droid Decay needs to give some advantage to droid users. Meaning more conveinance or something. Droids are growing more popular, the last thing we want to do is scare people away.
Making it so people need to replace their droids is ok, but you need to make the period where they own their droids BETTER. For example, make them recharge less, not more.
TheRealTK421
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:05 pm
#64
I'm gonna come back to this in more detail later but I want to remind everyone...
This is all just talk. Nothing is actually getting coded or anything. We're just....pontificating.
Note: I do have personal feelings on this issue but I want you all to firmly and unequivocally understand that the 'will' of the DE community is what I will carry forth to the Devs on this issue (regardless of how it aligns to my personal feelings)./
/bow
Respectfully,
This is all just talk. Nothing is actually getting coded or anything. We're just....pontificating.
Note: I do have personal feelings on this issue but I want you all to firmly and unequivocally understand that the 'will' of the DE community is what I will carry forth to the Devs on this issue (regardless of how it aligns to my personal feelings)./
/bow
Respectfully,
OckVofad
Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:50 pm
#65
I'd like to point out that in order to compete in JTL effectively everyone will need an astromech droid.
Do we really want this to be something that cannot decay or be damaged?