Droid Engineer Archive

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Malitevv wrote:

Changing the way factory crafting vs. hand crafting works would be a very tiny step and wouldn't change the overall situation much at all, unless they completely nerfed factories and made it so all factory crafted items were significantly sub-par.

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the impression get from all this is that the"industrialist" think we want them nerfed we dont ..we want it so that both options are viable to any play style .. games are about risk Vs. reward .. in my mind the risk hand crafters put out is not worth the pay off AO even said this :

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AO said:

This is in much the same way that there are many intangible benefits to being a hand-crafting DE - including low-risk in stock, better customer service, endlessly more customization abilities and other things to attract customers. These all get ignored because some of us produce them in greater quantity and therefore make more money.

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maby im takeing this out of context but yes you can produse thows same customization options in in high quanity .. there by taking that way as a benafit.. so again the only reward is low stock? and as for customer service thats the person not the crafting prosses a hand crafter can still be a jerk.

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Malitevv wrote:
I suppose there might be a nice middle ground where factory made items are still pretty good (good enough for people to buy and use), but hand-crafted items are a little better (better enough to be worth making and buying, but not so good that equivalent factory items are useless).

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This is what we want to see not a nerf

supose the "bonus" was that you get 5% more experimentation "room" on the bars .. nowthat would meen we get 50 -100 extra ham out of a droid .. the WS gets 10 damage out of the weapon and the cook gets 30 more mind in his brandy now how would this effect my game play?

how would this effect my B/H alt?

would I buy my guns from a industralist? depends for a the most part yes ..why? well i like to get them by the crate and give the crate to a smugler for sliceing ..I toss any "low" slices this would not be ecanomical for me to switch to hand crafted items for that tiny bit .. but for a weapoin that 5% makesa defrence on and cost a lot iwill .. example: rocket launcher .. LLC ..

would I buy my foodfrom a industralist? again it depends fort the most part yes .. why?well i shure as hack am not going to carry 25 brandys in my pocket .. but synth steak is anothere story only use it in emergentcys and it could meen life or death .. so yes i would buy this hand crafted and would scouer there server for it.

droids? again im not gona carry 30 B/H droids items on me ill get a crate of each .. besides the only bounse in the bomb droids would be maby 200 PvE damage and 20 PvP damage.. but when it comes to the the R3 bombsI thinkI might take a min to think.. x6 modules is 1200 PvE damage .. thats enoff to mak me think about it..

all in all for me industralist would still suport i big part of the market .. but hand crafters would also be looked for to make "some" items .. and thats what its about : FINDING MIDDLE GROUND.

edit : fixed some major typos

Message Edited by babyblue_d on 09-10-2004 01:48 PM

Message Edited by Malitevv on 09-10-2004 01:42 PM

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Malitevv wrote:

look. I am not an "industrialist" baby_blue. Assuming I am because I disagree with you is simply wrong.

And I didn't say that people supporting this idea are asking for anybody or anything to be nerfed. I said that if hand-crafted items are signficantly better in quality than factory-crafted items then it is a nerf to the factory. and it is.

Message Edited by Malitevv on 09-10-2004 01:42 PM

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Malitevv wrote:

look. I am not an "industrialist" baby_blue. Assuming I am because I disagree with you is simply wrong.


None of us should be assuming anything in relation to another DE's playstyle, etc.

And I didn't say that people supporting this idea are asking for anybody or anything to be nerfed.


Correct. There's no nerfing that's on the table, per se. If you think that's why I made this thread, you're mistaken.

This isn't "nerf factories". It's "Why Hand-craft?"

The reasons to use a factory (or multiples) is pretty obvious. I don't think any of us need to be sold on using them. That's not the point of this discussion. The point is...

Under what circumstance should hand-crafting be more desirable than using factories?

As I'd aluded to earlier, this harkens back to the one-day Crafting Experimentation change. In that change, a WS for example needed to select to commit Exp. points to speed or damage. There was a choice to be made when making products and it very much went to the 'quality' of the outcome.

If you take that idea to a more core level...it's sort of what was discussed when we batted this around.

Right now, if your choice is factory vs. hand-craft vis a vis "quality"....there is no choice to be made.


I said that if hand-crafted items are signficantly better in quality than factory-crafted items then it is a nerf to the factory. and it is.

Significantly? No...I don't think that's the direction that was being thought of here.

The direction was closer to what we're seeing with the FS rewards. Diminishing rewards at the top end...but rewards that are still available for those that choose to go through what's needed to obtain them.

It wouldn't mean that a hand-crafter would see, say, a 140 Med. module. It might mean....112 or 115. Or it might mean that they'd get some amount of resources removed (i.e. end up only needing 20 units of _____ instead of 35). Note....those were off the top of my head examples only.

The point is that for the majority of players that buy products, the "best" would basically remain where it is now. However, for those that wanted to push the envelope...it'll be harder to obtain and a lesser return at the top.

Again....in thinking of this, consider how the current FS rewards are dealt with...

For 90% of the players, they stop at a certain point (since the rewards, while there, only provide diminishing returns). However, they ARE there for people that choose to commit the work required to realize that small reward. The key would that it not be seen as a "requirement" or barrier to entry into the marketplace. To a large large degree, the regular market would still stay in the way it is now.

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Tarne_Monter wrote


Yes it was well put; however, Industrialist vs. Hand-Crafter in the BattleBot arena is not why we're here.

We are here to look at the COST vs REWARD of Hand Crafting.
(Correct me if I'm wrong TK)

Is it balanced?
If so, then what makes it balanced?
If not, then what why isn't it balanced, and what could make it balanced?

Edit: (Put in the correct me thingy)

Message Edited by Tarne_Monter on 09-10-2004 02:37 PM

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Gron_DM wrote:

What is the balance then? if you make handcrafting +5(or so)% better itll affect wpns and armor(a lot!)and maybe a few model droids but overall it wont affect DE things much....if its a +10% well that might get some attn especially in the combat droids, hams, scout mods, and kind of stat based mod....but thats just droids, this would affect wpns and armor a ton.....

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Drashk wrote:

My suggestion for this system, or some thing like it, would be for a non-serial generic loot drop component. This loot drop item would have a drop rate around the same as the Imperial/Rebel datadisks and could be used in the final build of all crafting schematics, such as weapons, armor, medicine, buildings, droids, etc. The loot drop item would not have any listed values on it to point it out as being higher quality or not. This would add a random value to the crafting system for those that want to hand craft. There could even be a chance that the loot drop item could reduce the properties of the crafted item. This would validate both the Factory crafted items, by producing consistant quality products and the hand crafted method, by giving the chance to produce an item that is slightly better.

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I think Drashk is thinking along the same lines I have been...

Neither Hand-Crafting nor Factory Crafting is better than the other...both have different utility in different circumstances.

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TheRealTK421 wrote:

Again....in thinking of this, consider how the current FS rewards are dealt with...

For 90% of the players, they stop at a certain point (since the rewards, while there, only provide diminishing returns). However, they ARE there for people that choose to commit the work required to realize that small reward. The key would that it not be seen as a "requirement" or barrier to entry into the marketplace. To a large large degree, the regular market would still stay in the way it is now.

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This point has me confused. I've been looking over the FS rewards for crafters now that I am force sensitiveand so far as I can tell.... there are no meaningful benefitsat all. None of the skill bonuses in those FS crafting trees improve the quality of any of the items that I can make. They improve the chance of a successfull assembly and the chance of successfull experimentation, but I can already max out all relevant experimantation bars most of the time anyway.

So if I'm to think of this in terms of those FS benefits, what am suppossed to be thinking of it exactly? because those benefitsare dealt with rather poorly.

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TheRealTK421 wrote:

What's the cost vs. reward of hand-crafting (understanding what we know about factory use, lot problems, resource available and 'hoarding', etc.)??

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

Neither Hand-Crafting nor Factory Crafting is better than the other...both have different utility in different circumstances.

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