Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Moving On To Combat Droid Certifications -- Who Gets To Use Combat Droids?
I agree with you. Only problem is, this game does not work 100% logically. SOE has a biased position, which is fine...They must make money.
More and more on Tempest server, I see less and less craftsman. Everyone is going combatant. Can you imagine the uproar of a TK master or the like when he is dropped by a master Architect with 2 Advanced Battle Droids? LOL...Granted I would LMAO literally...but that would really tick people off and give them a reason to talk smack about the game.
Also, with everyone going combatant, if you only offered advanced battle droids to crafters, you would be losing a lot of business and a lot of money. You have to think about those SPEND HAPPY BH, CH, TK and Commandos who just want to KILL KILL KILL.
But, have to hand it to you...You did bring a thought up in my mind. As a Brawler, or any of it's advanced professions, (TKA, Fencer, etc...) they logically would have no clue how to control an electronic device. They only know how to kick things or thump/chop things with blunt/sharp objects. lol... "ARGH! MY NAME IS GAUNK, SEE ME ROAR! ME THROW HEAVY STONES LIKE YOU NOT BELIEVE!" 
Jenden wrote:
So what if, instead of taking certs, droids have encumberance. This would probably be focused on the mind pool, as it is mainly a mental task to keep track of the droid in combat and be aware of your own situation at the same time.
I like it. I like it a lot. Puts droid in the hands of all players, but limits their effect on combat. Makes them like a massive special move.
Would also make it easy for the Dev's to adjust their effectivness post-release.
Good post!
Jenden wrote:
Ok, I just got an idea that I'll throw out here, see what people think. Currently the only thing keeping all combat droids out of the hands of all players is serious game balance issues. So what if, instead of taking certs, droids have encumberance. This would probably be focused on the mind pool, as it is mainly a mental task to keep track of the droid in combat and be aware of your own situation at the same time. This would, in effect, be the same balanceing trick they used for armor. A good set of armor will let even a non-combatant take out stuff over his head, and similarly, a droid would as well. This allows everyone to use droids, keeping our market broad, as well as giving some reason for people not to use the absolute best combat droid (as it would also have the highest encumberance). Please throw up some comments, I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks of the idea.
This is an intriguing idea, one that should be explored.
In extrapolating this idea, the intent of armor and HAM pool enhancing stimuli should be considered as well. Armor is purely for defense, and foods, spices, and buffs are generally intended to assist in the usefulness of the armor, as it relates to combat. In other words, a player encumbers himself with these items because they provide passive protection.
By the same token, a combat droid attached to a player's mind pool may be a passive combat mechanism, for protection purposes. This could mean, for example, that you would not directly order the combat droid to attack enemies (which would be "active" combat, which is governed by certifications), but instead the droid would be in continual guard mode, with the sole intend of protecting its master or members of the master's group.
So in essence, a combat droid attached to your mind pool would be another layer of defense. Elite combatants may like the added "defense" it would give them, and non-combatants would enjoy this special Star Warsy-type protection as well, especially during harvester runs.
This is an interesting idea. WOuld somewhat suck for medics though since they are already suffering on the mind pool front. I prefer Daker's certs but this is certainly a creative new idea. (Not really grounded in "reality" in the sense that droids shoudl operate without need to taks their masters, but the purpose here is to find balance measures and so it fits well as an alternative to certs).
Jenden wrote:
Ok, I just got an idea that I'll throw out here, see what people think. Currently the only thing keeping all combat droids out of the hands of all players is serious game balance issues. So what if, instead of taking certs, droids have encumberance. This would probably be focused on the mind pool, as it is mainly a mental task to keep track of the droid in combat and be aware of your own situation at the same time. This would, in effect, be the same balanceing trick they used for armor. A good set of armor will let even a non-combatant take out stuff over his head, and similarly, a droid would as well. This allows everyone to use droids, keeping our market broad, as well as giving some reason for people not to use the absolute best combat droid (as it would also have the highest encumberance). Please throw up some comments, I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks of the idea.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:This is an interesting idea. WOuld somewhat suck for medics though since they are already suffering on the mind pool front. I prefer Daker's certs but this is certainly a creative new idea. (Not really grounded in "reality" in the sense that droids shoudl operate without need to taks their masters, but the purpose here is to find balance measures and so it fits well as an alternative to certs).
Jenden wrote:
Ok, I just got an idea that I'll throw out here, see what people think. Currently the only thing keeping all combat droids out of the hands of all players is serious game balance issues. So what if, instead of taking certs, droids have encumberance. This would probably be focused on the mind pool, as it is mainly a mental task to keep track of the droid in combat and be aware of your own situation at the same time. This would, in effect, be the same balanceing trick they used for armor. A good set of armor will let even a non-combatant take out stuff over his head, and similarly, a droid would as well. This allows everyone to use droids, keeping our market broad, as well as giving some reason for people not to use the absolute best combat droid (as it would also have the highest encumberance). Please throw up some comments, I'm interested in hearing what everyone else thinks of the idea.
Not to be Nancy Negative here, but isn't this the equivalent to DE mast.urbation? We all like to pontificate and come up with great ideas, and I love most of the ideas thrown up here...but historically there is no correlation between all these great player ideas and anything being brought to the live servers.
I can give you 100 awesome ideas for droid functionality, and I can guarantee you that none of them will see the light of day because the devs don't give a squat about what we think.
Look at the list of awesome droid fixes coming out for Publish 6 as an example. They're all fixes for problems. Great! They're fixes for problems that should have been fixed before Beta was over. There is not one thing on real wishlist coming out for us, and I really doubt there ever will. We'll never see BLL's lifting anything, we'll never see LE droids repairing anything, we'll never see a surgical bot healing anyone, and we'll never see a probot 'probing' anything.
It's all carrot and stick, and the message forums here are just a way for us to talk about how strong the stick is, and how juicy the carrot looks.
Sorry to seem so negative, but I'm just about done with this game. I started playing to be a DE, rushed and became a master of my profession in early August, and I've been VERY patient so far. If they have no intention of making this a worthwhile profession, do what they did with Miners back in beta, just drop us completely.
If you don't think anything here will be taken into account than don't post, its your choice. I have hope, and furthermore, like I mentioned before, if you don't speak out beforehand you have no right to complain afterwords.
FooGuevara wrote:
Not to be Nancy Negative here, but isn't this the equivalent to DE mast.urbation? We all like to pontificate and come up with great ideas, and I love most of the ideas thrown up here...but historically there is no correlation between all these great player ideas and anything being brought to the live servers.
I can give you 100 awesome ideas for droid functionality, and I can guarantee you that none of them will see the light of day because the devs don't give a squat about what we think.
Look at the list of awesome droid fixes coming out for Publish 6 as an example. They're all fixes for problems. Great! They're fixes for problems that should have been fixed before Beta was over. There is not one thing on real wishlist coming out for us, and I really doubt there ever will. We'll never see BLL's lifting anything, we'll never see LE droids repairing anything, we'll never see a surgical bot healing anyone, and we'll never see a probot 'probing' anything.
It's all carrot and stick, and the message forums here are just a way for us to talk about how strong the stick is, and how juicy the carrot looks.
Sorry to seem so negative, but I'm just about done with this game. I started playing to be a DE, rushed and became a master of my profession in early August, and I've been VERY patient so far. If they have no intention of making this a worthwhile profession, do what they did with Miners back in beta, just drop us completely.
FooGuevara wrote:
Sorry to seem so negative, but I'm just about done with this game. I started playing to be a DE, rushed and became a master of my profession in early August, and I've been VERY patient so far. If they have no intention of making this a worthwhile profession, do what they did with Miners back in beta, just drop us completely.
I feel you man. You were MDE a bit before I was on Intrepid and the only major changes we've seen are 1) the probot nerf, 2) borked customization tools, 3) increased battery consumption and 4) +30 (whoop-dee-doo) dmg to probots.
We had all these expectations for January and now they're all a wash. I definitely believe the devs are working hard. I just don't think they should promise us things they cannot or are not sure they can deliver.
Man, I NEVER tell somebody I'm gonna be there at 7:30 when I know I can't make it till 9:00 -- EVER. And if I am late, I am always apologize because I like for people to know I respect their time. SWG is just a game true, but I apply these principals whether its work time or playtime. I don't think its unreasonable to expect the same.
Eutock wrote:
This is an intriguing idea, one that should be explored.
In extrapolating this idea, the intent of armor and HAM pool enhancing stimuli should be considered as well. Armor is purely for defense, and foods, spices, and buffs are generally intended to assist in the usefulness of the armor, as it relates to combat. In other words, a player encumbers himself with these items because they provide passive protection.
By the same token, a combat droid attached to a player's mind pool may be a passive combat mechanism, for protection purposes. This could mean, for example, that you would not directly order the combat droid to attack enemies (which would be "active" combat, which is governed by certifications), but instead the droid would be in continual guard mode, with the sole intend of protecting its master or members of the master's group.
So in essence, a combat droid attached to your mind pool would be another layer of defense. Elite combatants may like the added "defense" it would give them, and non-combatants would enjoy this special Star Warsy-type protection as well, especially during harvester runs.
I'm not even sure you'd have to limit it to pure defensive only. Historically pets in general have been much better at taking damage than they have been at dealing it. I'd say this qualifies it as defense enough. Furthermore, you can look at the HAM costs that weaons have, implying that it is a system that can be used for offensive abilities. I think mixing certification systems and some form of encumberance system would probably be a bad idea though, if nothing else than for the complexity of it. It may be doable a good long way down the road, but for now we need one simple, effective system (not a band-aid solution but not something that will take 6 more months).
As sodan pointed out, medics would definately get the short end of this deal, but from my experiences as a doc you don't need a droid too often (nothing any more powerful than a probot) unless your trying to go out soloing stuff. The people who will really have problems are rifleman, as they could benefit from good tanks possibly the most out of all the combat professions yet mind is their weak point.
Anyway, more feedback from everyone would be great. Positive, negative, as long as its constructive.
Jenden wrote:If you don't think anything here will be taken into account than don't post, its your choice. I have hope, and furthermore, like I mentioned before, if you don't speak out beforehand you have no right to complain afterwords.
FooGuevara wrote:
Not to be Nancy Negative here, but isn't this the equivalent to DE mast.urbation? We all like to pontificate and come up with great ideas, and I love most of the ideas thrown up here...but historically there is no correlation between all these great player ideas and anything being brought to the live servers.
I can give you 100 awesome ideas for droid functionality, and I can guarantee you that none of them will see the light of day because the devs don't give a squat about what we think.
Look at the list of awesome droid fixes coming out for Publish 6 as an example. They're all fixes for problems. Great! They're fixes for problems that should have been fixed before Beta was over. There is not one thing on real wishlist coming out for us, and I really doubt there ever will. We'll never see BLL's lifting anything, we'll never see LE droids repairing anything, we'll never see a surgical bot healing anyone, and we'll never see a probot 'probing' anything.
It's all carrot and stick, and the message forums here are just a way for us to talk about how strong the stick is, and how juicy the carrot looks.
Sorry to seem so negative, but I'm just about done with this game. I started playing to be a DE, rushed and became a master of my profession in early August, and I've been VERY patient so far. If they have no intention of making this a worthwhile profession, do what they did with Miners back in beta, just drop us completely.
I admire the persistence, but if you click on my name, and look at my posts, I have had hope. I've had hope for about 6 months. But after 6 months, and countless apologies to customers after each nerf I have a right to b.itch hither and yon.
We're a crafting profession, we rely on sales. To continually leave us broken is tantamount to killing us. It's not like the CH nerfs, those folks can still hunt and make money. When our stuff is broken we spend all night online apologizing to customers.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
My idea on how combat droids should be implemented is this:
(1) All classes can use all current droids
(2) In every novice elite combat profession (pistoleer, commando, BH, teras kasi, etc.) the person gets a cert for a medium power combat droid.
(3) At novice DE, the person gets a cert for both medium andstrong combat droids (DE advantage = strong instead of medium droid)
(4) In every master combat profession, the person gets a cert for a strong combat droid.
(5) At master DE, the person gets the ability to handle 2 droids, including 2 strong combat droids (DE advantage = 2 strong droids instead of one)
That sounds good to me, but would we be too powerfull then?
First off, looking over the other posts I have to agree somewhat with kollos. With the current balance system in place with cl10, I dont see how the new droids we are getting are going to be that much better than the probot. However, I think the pet level is way too low and the ch pets probably need a cert system like we are working out with the droids. The way it is now, I rarely use either cause they are to much of a pain in the a$$ to feed, recharge and heal for the minor benefit they serve in combat.
For the melee arguement, I am a fencer and an uber ranged droid I will have to admit would make any melee class pretty formidable. The drawbacks to melee are the fact that they are hard characters to play in mob fights because they rely alot more on their special attacks to win the fight quickly because they are taking massive point blank damage. If the mob is numerous, then the melee fighter has to really manage the special attacks so that the ham drain doesnt take him out of the fight to quickly and so he is way less effective, but one or two good tanks divides the attention of the mob and the melee fighter is way more effective!
Another thing to add to the overall controversy, if this was hypothetically handed to the de profession on a silver platter, I would say that bar none the most powerfull player in the game would be a DE/CH if you skip master artisan and just grind one leg of the artisan tree and on leg of the scout tree, you have more than enough points to be masters of both professions and hence a one man army! So the cert system has to be very well thought out!
I still however dont think that this makes us a combat profession. I say this because in reality most people here are a combat proffession along with DE. Like myself, I am a fencer also. I would say that weaponsmith is this way also. I am sure weaponsmiths are useing the weapons they make! That doesnt make them a combat profession and it wont make ours one either.
Arguing whether non-DE’s should have combat droid certification on the basis of realism is pointless. The in-game reasons for certification are little more than role-playing window dressing. (IE: Anyone can use a droid, vs only a DE has the expertise to use a droid)
We should be debating this issue on the basis of game balance and playability. That is the real issue. Once that is ‘settled’ then we can introduce any in-game justification we want.
Requiring novice DE means less combat droids because it would require sacrificing skill points.
Placing certification in all combat trees means more droids since the certification is easier to obtain.
In either case the effect on PvP should be neutral as all players would have equal access to droids. True, BH’s and Commandos would get the bonus of a combat droid in addition to their already formidable skills. But so would a Master Smuggler. If they both buy the best combat droid possible, the result should place them on the exact same footing as they were pre-droid invasion.
The effect on PvE is different. I do not like the idea of a BH soloing a Krayt with a droid. But neither do the devs.
Personally, I want to see lots of droids out there. So I favor wide certification. However I believe that this means we must limit the effectiveness of droids to maintain game balance in PvE.
Again I ask..why Certs?
PLEASE explain to me why certs are needed? I want to learn, really I do!
So far I believe everyone can and should have a droid...I see no reason to change this except some people being ..selfish?