Droid Engineer Archive

I'd love it, but I just can't believe that they will allow an artisan profession to turn into a combat profession too. If anything, they'd create a new profession that would control them.

As an alternative... perhaps some of the really powerful combat droids that DE's will make would not be able to be player controlled, but could become factional NPC type guards at bases and in town militias.

That would still be super cool, but wouldn't end up creating another creature handler type overpowered/hated/nerfed cycle.

yes, that would be nice... politicians and base commanders could purchase powerful combat droids from DE's to place in their defenses. You might even make it so that rebel and imperial DE's can even have unique versions of some combat droids that can only be used by their sides. You could also tie some of the certs to rank, which would encourage DE participation in the GCW. Neutral DE's could still make some of the advanced droids, but not all.

Just to throw in an additional monkey wrench:

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Quote from another thread:

Specifically, what if you changed my proposal to substitute "any profession other than DE"for "combat profession?"

Put simply, the 7 basic professions (marksman, brawler, etc) would be able to use all current droids. All elite professions except DE would get a medium droid cert. at novice, and a strong droid cert. at master. DEs would get a strong droid cert at novice, and that ability to pull 2 droids at once at master.

So...the question...

Does this cause balance problems?

To me, I really don't think so. The only addition is adding combat droids to professions that aren't primarily combat professions. Giving a master tailor/master merchant ("Crafter") a droid won't hurt anything, because chances are that the crafter would die in pvp against a real combat profession, despite the presence of a helper combat droid. Chances also are that the crafter wouldn't be able to tank/kill anything major with the droid if combat droids are properly balances. I don't think this would be game-breaking at all.

Additionally, this helps DEs by further increasing the market created for new droids (to all players instead of combat players).

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I am pondering the question of whether it makes sense to limit combat droids to combat professions, or whether all professions should be able to use them...

As several of you have pointed out, it is really the combat professions who will get the benefit of combat droid, so it may not make sense to prevent non-combat professions from having them.

However, simply giving everyone their gurreck back (in droid form) may not fly with the devs (although I STILL think 90% of the non-CH creature nerf had to do with poke*** complaints, not balance).

Hmmmmm...

Maybe the solution to the balance problem has nothing to do with certifications... What if (in addition to the above plan Sodan quoted) the best combat droids required specific, rare resources? Of course we (DEs) will want a premium for the difficulty in making these droids, making them very expensive (but of course at-harvester-cost for us).

I often notice that people rarely use AT-STs anymore now that people are limited to 1 at a time, mostly because of the cost and risk of losing it. Indirectly, making high-end combat droids very expensive would ensure that only high level characters (and DEs who would get multiple droids) would be able to use them effectively in combat. Most people use pets as a distraction...and the distraction only works if you can kill the mob before it kills your pet and moves to you. Any low level character would run the risk and expense of having the mobs kill the droid before the character can kill the mob.

I could see this become a great solution for us, because lots of people will buy the high-end, expensive combat droids, but the game wouldn't turn into "pet wars" because those droid owners would be very careful as to where and when they used their droid.

Hmmmmm...

I dunno...

What about the simple fact that giving an Elite profession a combat droid is making them even more powerful than they already are? There are already circumstances where a Commando or Bounty Hunter are far and above the rest in combat, now stack a Heavy Combat Droid next to them aswell?

No longer will they solo that Krayt with an exploit, they'd just go up and solo it as normal... exageration perhaps, but you would completely trivialise encounters as they already are. And what Doctors or Combat Medics, or Smugglers...

I have no better idea, but not everyone should be running around with a Destroyer in tow.

I'd also like to add that I have enough skillpoints left to do some damage to an Elite Combat profession, so if it turns out that that's what I have to do to use combat droids, I will.. but I'm damned if I'm going to let people GIMP combat droids because they only want to craft or don't want to step on the toes of the CH crowd..

I know two MCHfriends who are loving the new system, because the pets they have now are far more powefull vs other creatures now than they were before.. and they get to have creatures tailor made if they want as well.

It's already bad enough that AT-ST is about as scary to your average elite combat classas your snoozing grandmother, lets not gimp combat droids from the get-go.

And there are plenty of examples of characters in the canon making powerful combat droids and using them..

Lets help make SWG feel like Star Wars =)

The comparison with Armoursmiths/Chefs/Doctors isn't valid. Because ANY player can use all armour, all buffs and all food. BE is the best comparison, and also look at weaponsmith - they spend as many (or in the case of BE, more) SPs as a DE yet have to spend other SPs on being able to use the weapons they make.

Secondly, I hardly ever PvP....so my comments were regarding PvE. Pets are useful in PvE, but not level 10 ones really once you get a fair way into your profession. High level pets are useful all the way through, but they require CH skills. Maybe I'm just not cruel enough but I won't send my pets against a target that I know will rip them apart.

For the record I have a M CH/ M Carbineer character and a M Smuggler/TKM.

Imagine a Master Rifleman taking shots at someone while his 2 heavy combat droids are also taking shots at the same target. A master rifleman can be fairly scary right now if they plan things out right. Giving such a person twice the droid ability as anyone else really isn't going to go over well and will get something nerfed. Is it possible for this class combo? Yes. It is possible for a Master Artisan / MDE to pick up novice medic and master any of the elite brawler or marksmen professions.

I want droids to be powerful. That is what will sell them and be useful to me. However, if a DE is able to call out 2 combat droids, those droids will need to be reduced in power to compensate for game balance reasons. The Devs have proven their desire for this in the past. That is how all the CL15 pets were magically turned into CL10 pets. I would rather 1 powerful protector than 2 gimped ones.

As much as we would like many changes to DE to make it the uber class, it will not happen. If it does, it will be nerfed in time as each 'flavor of the month' class is. DE was never presented as a combat class. It can create combat and utility droids to benefit themselves and others. The argument that we know our creations better than anyone else is valid. However, the exact same argument can be made by the other artisan classes from the engineering branch so that Armorsmiths should see an increase in the effectiveness of the armor they wear because of their class and Weaponsmiths should be able to use any weapon they can create as if they are certified in it's use and Architects should see a decrease in maintenance costs on all their structures above and beyond what they can experiment on. We actually have more in common with these classes than any other. We have the exact same requirements to enter into our elite class and we gain expience the exact same way: by creating the items of our class only. Not by using the items or any other way. But, by creating items.

We need to try and keep our ideas realistic or we are entering into an area where we will be ignored (even if we are being paid attention to now). I think the best way to do that is to not try and make DE any more combat effective with droids than any combat class. We should be better than other non-combatants with combat droids, but we should not be better at it than people who have dedicated significant parts of their skill point totals.

I would actually suggest giving combat droid certificates toartisans and elite artisan professions- who deal with mechanical and manufactured things - rather than combat classes.

This will help in making artisan classes less of a 5th wheel in certain situations, and also helps make pure crafters who suddenly end up in a combat situation. It also helps us in making a product other artisans are interested in.

(I think someone mentioned this allready but there is no harm in repeating it)

My original reply got kinda one-starred. I didn't mean to be critical of the original proposal... I think it was great. Sorry if anyone was unhappy about my idea to have some really powerful combat droids not be player controlled. Perhaps it was the faction element of it that was not such a good idea. I just think that we might have even more potential types of powerful droids that the devs would consider if some of them were strictly AI controlled. That would do away with potential player balance or overpowered issues. I'm not saying that these should replace player-controlled combat droids... I was hoping that they could be in addition to them.

Anyway, I hope that the future brings a lot of neat and fun things for us all. I'm really just beginning to learn about this profession.

Tybalt

Why not just have the certs as a purchasable commodity?

You spend 100k for a Light Combat Droid cert. Then X amount on the droid.

You spend 250k for a Medium cert and 500k for a Heavy cert. Money isn't a big issue in the game, but I can't fathom a good cert system based around the current classes without making the more combat orientated classes even more powerful compared to the others than they already are.

Daker-Naritus wrote:

(1) All classes can use all current droids

Agreed - these are the backbone to SW life and should be available to all

(2) In every novice elite combat profession (pistoleer, commando, BH, teras kasi, etc.) the person gets a cert for a medium power combat droid.

Disagree - this goes against the grain of every other profession (if you want a piece of another class you take novice in that class)

(3) At novice DE, the person gets a cert for both medium andstrong combat droids (DE advantage = strong instead of medium droid)

Agree but limit it to just medium combat droids as per (2) above.

(4) In every master combat profession, the person gets a cert for a strong combat droid.

Disagree - Again this goes against the grain of every other profession (if you want a piece of another class you take novice in that class)

(5) At master DE, the person gets the ability to handle 2 droids, including 2 strong combat droids (DE advantage = 2 strong droids instead of one)

Agree - although i would prefer more droids than just 2.

Additional to the above

Introduce a mid level droid engineer stage - increase the level of droid to strong combat droids at DE 2/2/2/2.

I would like to see something of the following

1. all current droids = level 10


2. medium battle droids = level 15


3. strong battle droids = level 20


4. Ultimate battle droids = 25

droid pet level starts at 10 (same as non-CH)

number of droid pets starts at 1

1. Novice DE- MAXIMUM level of droid pet = +5


2. level 1 in all 4 skill branches grants a total of +1 to level of pet


3. level 2 in all 4 skill branches grats a +1 each to level of pet (total +4)


4. level 3 in one branch grants a +1 to number of pets and +1 to level of pet


5. level4 in all 4 skill branches grats a +1 each to level of pet (total +4)


6. Master DEgrats +1 to number of droid pets

So...

1. ANovice DE would have (1) medium (level 15) droids at his disposal


2. A 0-0-0-3 DE gets (2) medium(level 15)droids


3. A 2-2-2-2 DE gets (1) strong (level 20) droid


4. A 2-2-2-3 DE gets (2) strong (level 20) droids


5. A 4-4-4-4 DE gets (2) Ultimate (level 25) droids


6. A Master DE gets (3) Ultimate (level 25) droids

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EagleShard wrote:

The comparison with Armoursmiths/Chefs/Doctors isn't valid. Because ANY player can use all armour, all buffs and all food. BE is the best comparison, and also look at weaponsmith - they spend as many (or in the case of BE, more) SPs as a DE yet have to spend other SPs on being able to use the weapons they make.

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Unless I'm misunderstanding your intent, this isexactly why Armorsmith, Chef, Docter, et alare the PERFECT comparison. ANY player can use all droids just like any player can use all food.

BE is a terrible comparison because they essentially only have 1 market - Creature Handlers. (I'm ignoring using BE pets as decoration in a house for now.)

We want to be able to sell our droids to everyone, or at the very least to as many people as possible. If DE-only combat droids are added to the profession, it does nothing to expand our market and instead changes our profession into a combat profession (or at least a pet profession like CH).

Someone on this post said DE should not get to use powerful droids because they only have to get up the engineering skill...whereas the other professions require more than just 1 skill.

HELLO! You must have Master Artisan before you can make even the Advanced Blueprint Droids...

Also, what about sniper, pistoleer, carbineer? Those only require 1 skill to be learned, yet they will have medium droids when they are novice. hmm?

Someone also saidBH have to have more than 1 master base profession, or CH being so difficult to reach master. Well as opposed to CH, our Droids do not have 10k HAM and do not deal 300 damage per hit. LOL. And, as opposed to BH, We do not have lightning cannons backing us up.

People are getting bitter taste in their mouth because they say DE should not be a battle profession. Well why not? There were 1000s of droids controlled by 1 man on Episode 1. Do you honestly think that 1 man would be as powerful alone? Do you think he was a combat professional? NO...he just knew how to push buttons. If it makes you feel better...would the DE profession be better fitted to your brain if the profession was renamed to: "Droid Engineer & Handler" ??

I saw a post here also that someone said BE are CH suppliers. Well...BE make BE creatures...Most of which are only available to be used by a CH...so...they have no choice. Not like a dancer is going to have a Rancor do the Waltz. LOL. CH can also go out in the wild, tame a 10k HAM pet and use it for battle...well wouldn't it be logical to seeDE have the ability to use their Droids?

Yes...you may say that this should then be the case fora BE...but think about it logically. A BE only mixes & mingles cells, and chemicals with those cells to create a beast. He has no control over the Beast he creates. He might be a scientist, but that doesnt mean he is good with animals. A DE lays out every wire, every switch, every control interface and circuit on a droid. Would that not in turn mean he knew how to work it too? That is like sitting at a camp fire, getting a stick, ripping all the side-branches off, getting it nice and sharp on the end, finallyputting a marshmellow on the end...only to find yourself clueless as to how to hold it over the fire. As a scientist (BE), you may be able to create a life, but you probably don't know how to raise it.

Perhaps i'm getting this wrong but...i'd rather have the NON-combat classes get access to heavy combat droids.
and the combat classes not be able to have them.
Let me explain.
If your a combat professional like a soldier you need to concentrate on what you are doing to do it to the best of your abilities. Therfore having to control a droid or a pet distracts you from you main abilites.
But let's face it your a combat professional, your the weapon...you don't need additional backup to help you out.
Now if you a non-combat individual and have to venture out into the galaxy you know it's a tough place out there with wild creatures trying to kill you. So what do you do?
You can't use guns yourself because you've not been trained in them so you either hire human bodyguards (group) or next best thing get an intelligent droid to protect you. So if you're attacked you can use your droid to attack whislt you try to stay out of it.
What i'm trying to say is this since droids may require intelligence to use more effectively make it as if it reqires mind to utilise (min encumbrance)...since the combat professions often migrate mind to action or health
they are less likely to use combat droids whilst the true market for droids is MORE likely to use them.
This way you don't get an overpowered combat type using an overpowered droids.
MDE's since they are adapt at the design's and control systems of a droid get far less mind encumbrance when they use a droid therefore have the ability to call more than one at a time.
And so therfore you meet 3 criteria:
a) market forces, those who NEED droids get them and those that make them can sell them
b) imbalance, Those that don't need droids can't use them (combat types)
c) Profession expertise, And those that are expert in their use get to use more