Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Fundamental Question Concerning the DE-only Combat Droids Concept
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Wanji wrote:
Why worry about others when our own DE's want to rain on our own parade.
No kiddin'. Did the CHs bag on themselves this much?
Everyone wants things only other profession have access to: flamethrowers, graul maulers, ability to use BH droids (No! not BH-only droids! Save us!), etc. No one is really surprised that only CHs can use lvl 70 creature pets, that BHs get eye-shot (or whatever it is), that architects can build furniture. All professions have and should have some degree of exclusivity to what they do and to the equipment they can use --otherwise we'd all be in the same profession. What if -- *gasp* -- DEs had some cool droids that they, as Droid Engineers, alone could use? Perish the thought! People might get jealous! They might no longer call us gimps with pocket protectors! NOOOOO!!!!
Droid Engineers are crafters. Do weaponsmiths get better weapons? Nope. Don't shoot yourselves in the foot. You aren't droid handlers, you are droid creaters, as it should be.
Droids are for everyone and should be. Just like the movies, just like the books. Just like common sense.
I can: Squad Leader.
Squad Leaders are already a combat class. Squad Leaders are already designed to enhance and control large groups. And for the realists out there, Squad Leader "makes sense" as the Droid Handler class.
Finally, someone else seeing some light
That's precisely it. A SL is the person that has the skills to lead groups. Each of the other combat professions are aimed at individual skills. It is to make the best individual soldier. SL is designed to take those individuals and turn them into a group. What I would really like to see out of this is to give the SL some bonus certs. If the SL is in a group with other PCs already, give them bonuses to call out more combat droids. So say everyone has one combat droid out, if the SL is in a group, they get to call 3. If not in a group (must have other PCs, not pets) then they are limited to the single one that others can have. That would enhance the grouping thing no-end, and also ties in nicely with the SL profession design philosphy.
hmm.. I wonder if this bickering is standard for whatever profession is currently on the "dev-love" list, or if it's just a DE thing.. I'm only a DE and don't really watch other forums, so I can't answer that. Anyone want to venture a hypothesis? You'll have to be careful.. you can get flamed for looking at people funny on this board anymore. *sigh*
I personally think DEs should get higher-end droids.. not just combat models.Reason being, my first priority when I learn a new scientific technique in RL is to build a scary prototype that only I know how to operate. There are powerful (and usually unstable) features involved that an average user wouldn't know jack about. I'd LOVE to have the same luxury as a DE.. I love to experiment to create bigger, better, spookier stuff. (and frequently blow my eyebrows off in the process), and my droids should be no different.
I supposed it could be fixed with a FUNCTIONAL experimentation system in place; if they gave me the ability to create my own utility and combat droids with highly unstable experimentation. Experimentation would work normally (if it worked) on a consumer-based droid, but would be riskier yet yield radically different stats on the more complex DE-only versions.
The whole "you can't do that because it would make people jealous" case doesn't compute to me.. I'm a Master Engineer, not a CSR. If you guys want to banter about how to balance a million professions each littered with a million different personalities that are all screaming and crying for different stuff.. be my guest. As for me, I'm heading back to the lab and waiting for SOE to give mea real reason to experiment. 
Cheers,
Ellewen wrote:
Exactly my thoughts. I think there are a few DEs here who simply can not accept the fact that the profession can be played differently than they are playing it. Personaly Im getting a little frustrated at the same few people spamming the same posts that do nothing but dictate to us how we should be playing our profession.
This game was designed from the onset to allow more diversity and more options for the player characters than any game Ive ever seen. It is simply wrong, for those of you who are incapable of evolving your gameplay, to force the rest of us to wear the same blinders your wearing.
If you don't like what the majority of us want and hopefully get, then dont use it, don't build it, and stop trying to force us to play our game your way.
I support an MDE-only droid 100%. I think it fits into the DE-profession like a glove. I do not support it, if its an over powered clvl. That would be unballencing to an extent.
If by playing differently you mean building yourself a droid, going out and doing missions getting combat experience, you're playinga profession but it's not DE. You're more likely playing the combat profession you're subscribed to, using the skills thatit gives and not the ones that DE gives.Replace build a droid with buying a droid, and you can do the same thing with any other profession in the game. By your rational, anyone with a droid is a DE, even if they have no skills in artisan. So that can't really be called playing a droid engineer, can it?
Let's not deceive ourselves that we are asking for a Master-level perk. There is no need for it, it is simply something people want which diverges from the current nature of Droid Engineering, whether that is a good thing or not.
In my opinion, if you want a pet that no one else can use except the elite members of your profession togo hunting with it, go Creature Handler. It's there, it works. If you like doing missions, that's the best way to do it.
Kollos wrote:
Grimjakk wrote:
And unless they institute a "Droid Handler" profession, I can't think of a more appropriate one to carry the certs [for high-end combat droids] than the class that designs, builds, and maintains them.
I can: Squad Leader.
Squad Leaders are already a combat class. Squad Leaders are already designed to enhance and control large groups. And for the realists out there, Squad Leader "makes sense" as the Droid Handler class.
But the game balance issue should PRECLUDE giving high-end pets to any combat class.
CH's have no combat skills in their own tree.
"Let's not deceive ourselves that we are asking for a Master-level perk."
Don't we already get a master level perk! WE CAN MAKE THE BINARY LOAD LIFTER!!!!!!!!!!
oh wait
/suicide
Grimjakk wrote:
CH's have no combat skills in their own tree.
I am no CH and know little about it. But I just looked at the skill mods for CH and there is the "Max number of pet levels" mod. I assume this determines the maximum creature level that the CH can control. Since the creature level determines how powerful the creature is, this isessentially a combat certification (i.e. you are certified to use this powerful of a creature...).
Grimjakk wrote:
But the game balance issue should PRECLUDE giving high-end pets to any combat class.
I disagree. It makes absolutely no sense for every class to have the same overall combat ability - some classes aren't SUPPOSED to be good fighters.
Squad Leaders are already arguably the weakest combat class even when being played in a group like they're supposed to be played. Giving them combat pets would simply bring them up to par and would HELP game balance (since that balance is currently out of whack against them).
There's also the question of just what you mean by a "high end" pet. The best creature handler pets are currently too powerful. So if by "high end" pet you mean something as powerful as a Rancor, then you are correct. However, giving Squad Leaders something in the level 30-35 range would be just fine so if a "high end" Droid is level 30 everything would work great.
Kollos wrote:
Grimjakk wrote:
But the game balance issue should PRECLUDE giving high-end pets to any combat class.
I disagree. It makes absolutely no sense for every class to have the same overall combat ability - some classes aren't SUPPOSED to be good fighters.
Squad Leaders are already arguably the weakest combat class even when being played in a group like they're supposed to be played. Giving them combat pets would simply bring them up to par and would HELP game balance (since that balance is currently out of whack against them).
There's also the question of just what you mean by a "high end" pet. The best creature handler pets are currently too powerful. So if by "high end" pet you mean something as powerful as a Rancor, then you are correct. However, giving Squad Leaders something in the level 30-35 range would be just fine so if a "high end" Droid is level 30 everything would work great.
The Squad Leader discussion really shouldn't have any more bearing on the DE discussion than BE or Chef fixes... not trying to wiggle out... just saying that if we start discussing everyprofession's problems and strengths we'll never get anywhere. If SL's wanna petition for special droid certs, they'd be better off doing that on their own board. It really doesn't effect us (beyond providing another market).
Regarding giving high-end (and picking a number outta thin air, I'll say anything stronger than say CL-30) combat pets to combat classes is just going to perpetuate the "Pet Wars" style of play that thenext publish is supposed to help ween us off ofviapet nerfs and brawler fixes. The CH changes, especially, are designed to take powerful pets out of the hands of players who don't devote the 106 points required to become MCH's. If they can get high-end droid pets for no extra points,the"dabblers" willjust substitute the new droid for theircreature pet, and free up the 29 points or so that they had to sink into CH to get their Mauler.
Currently, everyone can own a CL-16 ADV Probot.I don't see a general-sale combat droid being much higher than that. Maybe CL-20...probably with certs. (As a matter of fact, I just hope they don't nerf the ADV Probots . 
)
IF THERE ARE high-end combat droids, I don't see the devs giving them to any profession that is already a "combat" profession (due to balance issues). As far as "every class having the same combat abilities", I'm a MA/MDE/Novice Rifleman. In order to get to MasterRifleman, I'll have to give up allScoutbeyond Novice for campsandmost or all of myMarksman Support line. Even with a pet, thats hardly going to make me a powerhouse.
Just for comparison, MCH costs a minimum of 106 points. Most MDE's also find they have to be MA's as well for a cost of 140 points, and even those that don't, master Survey4 for a cost of 106 points. I really don't think MDE's getting a single strong combat pet is out of line... or several mid-level combat pets for that matter.
HamsterPimp wrote:
Many of us have argued that other crafters should be able to use thier own products!!!
Jedene Stop trying to force you r Narrow view of the game onto the rest of us!!! Me being able to run missions with my comnat droids would not affect you in any way, so why are you trying to force your ideas on me? Let me have my combat droids and you can sit back and craft all day!!!
I have no fun trying to sell anything, or even explaining the server limits of the droids i sell. I would much rather build some combat droids, then go out and participate in the game!!!
Money has no real use in this game!! As long as i can afford to run my combat droids i do not care to sell anything!!! A few guildmates may want some droids and i will take time to craft them, but if i had combat droids i could then be out there runing missions!!!
I just have one question for you, if you don't enjoy selling things, why are you a crafting profession? If there weren't any combat droids then you could free up the skill points you put into it for whatever profession got certed for it or one you enjoy more. As I said, just a question, people seem to be overreacting to some of my posts.
Jenden Morn - Master Droid Engineer- Mos Espa, Tarquinas
Owner, Operator, and Founder of DarkStar Inc.
Many of us have argued that other crafters should be able to use thier own products!!!
Jedene Stop trying to force you r Narrow view of the game onto the rest of us!!! Me being able to run missions with my comnat droids would not affect you in any way, so why are you trying to force your ideas on me? Let me have my combat droids and you can sit back and craft all day!!!
I have no fun trying to sell anything, or even explaining the server limits of the droids i sell. I would much rather build some combat droids, then go out and participate in the game!!!
Money has no real use in this game!! As long as i can afford to run my combat droids i do not care to sell anything!!! A few guildmates may want some droids and i will take time to craft them, but if i had combat droids i could then be out there runing missions!!!
Droid-Creator wrote:
Jenden and his personal crusade to deny his fellow DEs something they desire....though if we got it it would not impact him at all.
Jenden isn't the only Droid Engineer who does not want our profession turned into a combat class. We are a CRAFTING profession. There is absolutely no reason that we should be given a high-end COMBAT droid that only we can use.
Go ahead and add a combat droid chassis that we can make. I would love to be able to make something better than the Probot that I can sell to other, combat-oriented classes. But DO NOT gives us a combat droid that is only useable by a Droid Engineer because that will simply turn us into Droid Handlers.
Should Droid Engineers be able to call and control more than one droid at a time? Certainly. Should other professions have the same ability? Possibly. In both cases, however, only one combat droid at a time. (With a possible exception for a specific Droid Handler-style class, which as far as I'm concerned should be the Squad Leader profession.)
I'm a Droid Engineer, not a Droid Handler. Please don't change my profession into a different one after the fact.
Neologist wrote:
Droid Engineers are crafters. Do weaponsmiths get better weapons? Nope. Don't shoot yourselves in the foot. You aren't droid handlers, you are droid creaters, as it should be.
Droids are for everyone and should be. Just like the movies, just like the books. Just like common sense.
Exactly.
Those of you who are arguing to change us into Droid Handlers, why? Why did you choose a crafting profession if what you really wanted was a combat profession?
Note that I'm not saying Droid Engineers should not be allowed to use their own product. We should be able to use any droid we can create, but SO SHOULD EVERYONE ELSE. In fact, I think that Droid Engineers should be able to use more droids simultaneously than any other profession. However, I do not think that should include multiple Droidekas or other combat droids. Give us 1 combat droid and multiple utility droids.
If you want a Droid Engineer specific droid, make it an uber-utility droid of some sort. Just don't make it a combat droid, because we're not a combat profession.
And to all you lamers who are 1-starring every post you disagree with, I can play that game too.