Droid Engineer Archive

Thread: (W) Focus Thread: Drawing the new line here

GnomeAd
Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:23 pm
#40

Runesabre said in his post yesterday that Lucas was behind the scheduling decisions for this patch. Maybe we should be focusing our attentions on them instead of SOE. Anyone got a good snail-mail address for them?
TheRealTK421
Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:26 pm
#41






TheWoody wrote:

how many people have started leaving because of this (myself included)?


A lot of the veterans and burnouts, yes....maybe they will come back somedayif SOE and Runesabre can turn things around.

My guess is....we all needto get used to disappointment (more on this, below).



How many have already walked? How many more can they afford to lose?


There weren't that many of us to begin with....remember?

It's not as if a lose of a lot of DEs would hurt too terribly much. There'd just be other players that would step up an take our place.



There's the point. At this time it is damage control, not profit-gain.


No..I'd say you're wrong there. It's ALWAYS about the money, Wood. I hope you understand that key aspect. We DEs don't impact the monthly bottom line, dude. It's hardly like the loss of mass DEs (via cancellizations) would hurt them too much.


As far as the correspondent deal, a quick link here (sorry gnomeAD)


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=droid_engineer&message.id=52500&page=1


No comment.


I believe that Drashk indeed is doing a marvelous job, has been burned far more than he deserves (including by me at times) and has the closest voice to the Devs. But the correspondent system has already been proven to be ineffective and the voice alone is not loud enough.


Yes...I'd agree with this. Thankfully, the recent hubbub over the DH/DC thing has finally started forcing TH, Runesabre and others to more carefully read our opinions and comments and pay attention to the overarching forum 'voice' that we emit.

They may be 'getting it' more now than they ever have before...you just don't know it cause they haven't said anything much about it.

This might well be a situation where it truly is the darkest before the dawn, Wood. Don't give up...just takefew deep breaths and pretend that it's all gonna be okay.


But fine.. you're right, I quit. I have one month left in the game. DE has been the only thing I've cared about here and I have done, all I try to do is to see this profession reach top marks. But if you're happy with the situation then I'll leave it be. Enjoy DE, I hope you get more out of it than I did.



Well..you know that I hope you don't quit. I need a partner in crime to pull of total DE galaxy domina....errr...."community".

You and I pulled off some pretty amazing "firsts" in the game (first fully functional server profession association, first fully functional inter-server profession association, first fully featured "Race" event (complete with betting windows and 'color commentary'upon the release of vehicles).

Anyway...I know how you're feeling. I felt the same way when I did my "I know what I'll do on my server.." thread. Just a bit of random lunacy to help clear the pipes. We need to figure out another best way to move forward, to be honest.





/bow

Respectfully,






TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"
SWG DE Correspondent
Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."


TheWoody
Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:40 pm
#42

The trick is not just one letter. A single event is never enough.


On the topic of this discussion, I'd like to publish a quick message I sent to someone over private chat. I think it has particular bearing on these proceedings (and perhaps narrow things down a little also)







once a group unites as one voice they can start to communicate. By factioning after the initial poll of yours the Devs could no longer communicate or understand what we were saying. Furthermore the Correspondent does not have a loud enough voice to break through, it became obvious.

If we could speak as one, then we could start making headway towards making intelligent communication happen. They (the developers) would no longer have to guard their words as carefully as we could then take it back and get a single response to them instead of 50.

In essense this is exactly what the correspondent system is about, but has not succeeded in doing up until this point. Perhaps my target is wrong.. perhaps we should get Drashk more on-the-ball with things. If he can get everyone to agree to a few groundrules then he can then take the voice and use it towards getting our goals across.





So let us consider your alternate thoughts on the matter. If the community feels that the correspondent is the best way to head this up (indeed I agree with them in principle on this matter) then let us turn our efforts towards that. Let us empower the correspondent more.


But to do this, a few 'groundrules' will have to be laid down. The first steps are to find a centre of unity. A sense of order is going to have to be maintained about everything that comes. If we stray from this to far, then factioning of the voice will occur again and all efforts will be lost.


I'm not saying that we come up with a single proposal and force those who are against it to stomach it. What I do propose is that we set up a regular polling system on various matters that are deemed to be of importance. Drashk has done this once or twice before, and I feel it should be continued, and indeed both streamlined and extrapolated.


Second, we should consider agreeing, that if 2/3rds of the population (or some similarly high number, say 75%) agrees to something in a poll, we should perhaps take it as read that it is generally the way to go in matters. While everyone is welcome to their own opinions, the nature of forum boards shows that the vocal minority increasingly appears as the angry majority. So there may not be decisions that you are for, but that is no reason to tear down the walls of this civilisation that we are to now try and build because you feel differently on one single matter.


We have an extremely intelligent bunch up here in DE land, moreso than the other professions. We all take nice firm looks at the situation and arrive at our reasoning on what will happen because of it. In times of disagreement it is a lack of trust between one person and another over their respective ideas. But when a vast majority of a population such as our feels it is safe or important to proceed, we need to ask that those that disagree with such actions reach out and place their trust in the others here. We're not hear to screw one another, but if we don't work together then we may never achieve what we could if we did.


Lastly, there will have to be some codes of conduct in the demonstration of the 'voice'. Flaming will have to be cut down, and we'll have to respect one another in matters. Keep the hatred for those who deserve it, don't turn it on one another.



If we can achieve these steps, or at least the foundation of these ideals, then we can turn adn give Drashk the voice that is needed to back him in all calls. Then we can also drop it into his hands to get us the communication needed for usto act intelligently, rather than with knee-jerk reactions to half-truths and snippets of information.



There is my proposal in a little more full context. Within it we can develop a coherant voice, and start putting together a campaign towards gaining what we have already paid for.






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"Never in the field of forum posting has so much bollocks been said to so many by so few"
Akkori
Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:55 pm
#43

YES


Stop making droids altogether...it will get their attention if the people who provide at least 75% of the droids for the game (us, the former DE ) stop making them, the Devs WILL notice it quickly. Leave Droid making to the Holo grinders.





Odano Akkori
First Mayor of Tempest
Jaxian Bay
Elder DE, Rifleman, Swordsman

Jedi will never be a starting profession...Looted items and quest items will never be better then crafted items, this is not a loot based game...CH will return shortly...CH and BE will not be back in game...Rangers are getting their revamp next!...The stealth system will not be changing in the spy expertise...Need any more examples of things the devs said that did not hold true?
TheRealTK421
Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:56 pm
#44






Akkori wrote:

Leave Droid making to the Holo grinders.




Holo-grinders tend not to make/sell droids on a large scale. They are there to grind XP and move on.


/bow

Respectfully,






TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"
SWG DE Correspondent
Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."


Lonkley
Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:03 pm
#45






Malitevv wrote:

Now you are putting yourself back into the role of proposing that we set out to do drashk's job for him. He has been trying to pull the common thread out of the rambling on this board and has been doing so quite successfully I think. If that's your only goal then I say step back and let Drashk do his job. Short-circuiting Drashk in an effort todefine theunified voice, when he is already moving well towards thatgoal,will do nothing other than create confusion.





With all due respect to Drashk, he gave up the fight. He was going along with the inevitability of the DC, and if we had followed the devs would not have canned the idea. Cant really say i blame him, but im not quite sure what success you're referring to.


The question i really have is this. Even if we all get together with one voice, what are we going to say?


We've said everything that there is to say. Utility droids have been clearly outlined, and the reply is the inept "droids cant be useful" and thats not technically possible in a short amount of time.


Short of the devs giving us a useful viewpoint to concentrate our efforts, anything else becomes moot.


Look at the flurry with combat certs. Lots of plans, lots of thoughts, and the devs reply once. "cant do that"







----------------
There is a special place in hell for necro posters
Ziaa
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:26 pm
#46

After the whole combat droid debacle, I found myself thinking, DE's in general are just money hungry players in the wrong profession..


I guess it still hasn't sunk into DE's heads yet, but you guys are getting nothing now.. for at least a year, because the majority of you are so stubborn that you couldn't allow anything new to get into the game in our allotted development timeframe.


Publish 6 is out today.. you've got 1 weekto get the devs to agree to something new, so that they have 2 weeks to create it and 1 week to test it before publish 7.. I don't see anything much happening in that timeframe...


Anyhow, with the death of combat droids, I've left the DE profession.. I'm not waiting 6 or more months to add some variety to the profession.. enjoy your duct taped blasters crafters.


A reasonable idea (droid commander) would have allowed players like me to have combat droids, and money hungry crafters like you to have a sales target.. we could have take this implementation for now, while we had the chance, and we could have worked together and got a better solution implemented when the devs had more time... instead, neither the crafters or the droid users are getting anything.


So, I can't really add my support to anything that "CDE's" (a crafting subtype of DE) want, because they wouldn't add support for other people..






--
Ziaa/Xiaa

Southern Citadel, Naboo
loot/resource, tailor, shipwright and DE vendors (-1211 2614)
Malitevv
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:36 pm
#47

guess what? I'm not a money hungry crafter. And I didn't like the developers plans for a new profession. I hated itnot because I think its a bad idea in and of itself. I hated it because adding a new profession to supplementmy current professionwithout first fixing theprofession I'm already playing is just dumb in my opinion.


We are all entitled to our opinions, but nothing is quite as simple and black and white as you want to make it.



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In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

T.S. Eliot
Nyght
Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:35 pm
#48








Lonkley wrote:


We've said everything that there is to say. Utility droids have been clearly outlined, and the reply is the inept "droids cant be useful" and thats not technically possible in a short amount of time.


Short of the devs giving us a useful viewpoint to concentrate our efforts, anything else becomes moot.


Look at the flurry with combat certs. Lots of plans, lots of thoughts, and the devs reply once. "cant do that"





Yeah but the can't do utility droids' came from TH after lunch one day. He probably had several vodka shooters and in a drunken haze, that's all he could remember from the meeting.


Obviously, some form of utility droids are possible (Gee Mr. Developer.. I didn't even go to game developmant shoool and can think up a half dozen BALANCED scenarios).


I do have some faith in Rune.. he's been around long enough not to make the really stupid mistakes. I just think they need a little quiet time to think about the possibilities.


Lets see what happens in publish 7 before we go ballistic.





-------------------------------------------------
Smuggler revamp or bust!

(There's an old sig for ya!)
Guzic
Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:13 pm
#49

yes
JediKnightMark
Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:11 pm
#50








Gossimer wrote:


Don't give up the DE tree you have so hard to work for, but STOP MAKING DROIDS.


We alone cannot make a difference. The entie SWG player community has to get behind us for this to work.





First of all YES.


second (OT): 1) I don't think anyone will be behind us if we stop selling them stuff they want. 2) BHs will not be able to advance at all unless they exploit. If SOE was the only victim here, I'd say sure. HOWEVER please anyone considering this course of action keep making BH droids for the sake of keeping the community together, as the topic poster said. We need to stay united for this to work.


BTW I'm posting a link to this thread on the other profession boards so they can understand what is happening since it could possibly effect the entire community.



---------------------------
Haelon's Mercantile, Bounties and Starship Services.
Tatooine 2490 -4860
2-4-1-4 Reality Consultant
Yet another beta wasted
A respec a day keeps the monotony away

JediKnightMark
Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:19 pm
#51

oh I forgot to mention that if a CSR or correspondant or dev themself have to slap me for supposed spamming or OT threads or whatever that's fine I understand why they'd be afraid of the community banding together on this. I accept whatever punishment they feel is necessary since I realize I am probably breaking some rule of the forums by making people aware of issues in or profession that could effect them some way or another. So go ahead it's ok I won't hold it against you



---------------------------
Haelon's Mercantile, Bounties and Starship Services.
Tatooine 2490 -4860
2-4-1-4 Reality Consultant
Yet another beta wasted
A respec a day keeps the monotony away

PootieT
Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:20 pm
#52

Count me in!!!!


Ingame: Rhea on Shadowfire





Grandpa Jones Master Carbineer/ Master Squad Leader
Shadowfire Galaxy

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