Droid Engineer Archive

Reposting this here:

I think my whole problem with the current situation is not so much the fact that things change, but the fact that we seem to be constantly being promised 'it'll be in the next publish.' So we wait. Next publish comes, its sorry guys, didnt make the deadline, decided you'd rather have colored text messages instead. It'll be in the next publish...ad infinitum.Not only that, but they actually have the termenity to be surprised when they are informed about bugs that have been in place since beta and we get: ok, we'll put that on the list for the devs to look at for the next publish (BH Droid bug).

January publish seems to be happening in February. Im assuming February pubish will be in March/April and before you know it they will have a perfect game and an empty world because their entire subscriber base got tired of waiting and moved on to the next, latest greatest thing.

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Soronume wrote:

Thanks for posting, but as you can see from the sigs of half the community, we already know the state of this situation.

of course the new push for better communication from SOE never bothered to come tell us that we weren't on the plate anymore. we get to discover this for ourselves.

and -that- is the problem.

you always will have those that gripe over anything, but if we were told "expect this in january" and then when you had your Lucas command of "crackdown first" you told us...we are big enough to accept that.

for some reason you guys keep telling us "things change, when we change you always rip us. that's not fair" we woundn't rip if you kept us updated on the situation.

is this really that hard a concept? if you can't make a deadline TELL US.

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I'm not mad that they missed a deadline, but how many times have they 'missed' a deadling to never return to it? THAT is what is bothering me.

I swear to God, every time I start enjoying this game and think "whew, months of sticking with the bugs/Dev screw ups, etc it finally paying off" they do something this..boneheaded as what they've did in this Publish.. They completely shift focus on it, they tried to give DEs a Droid Handler tag saying we asked for it, they lied about removing PvP decay, they lied about WHY they removed PvP decay, the list goes on..

Sure, if I was JustG or TH I could easily say "Just hang in there guys, it'll get better, we'll get to you soon, have patience.." Know why? They get PAID to 'put up with it' while we are the ones doing the paying..

Message Edited by Nailliar on 02-04-2004 05:45 PM

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Damazig wrote:

JustG "We plan on implementing combat droids (< level 10) in P7, and Utility Droids in P8"

I agree with you, information changes... thats one thing, misleading is totaly diferent. Again, what you are talking about implementing in 2 or 3 months is what was once said to be out with the 1st version of the game. I can see the nice rate things are going... its february, and that january publish still isnt out, and the monthly story... 3 acts e more than 6 months... monthly???

To me it just seems like sony is only trying to have the least possible ppl on the Dev team, so they can save money, but the result is the slow rate things are going and the high number of people droping the game.

You shouldn't have reopened the closed accounts yet. The people that did leave the game wont be finding that much new content and stability, and they will leave again. My 2 cents (still hoping for a miracle here)

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G - change is good. I would rather see that the droid invasion be put off and done correctly as oppossed to rushing it. Not all of us are crying about. Check out this book - it is an excellent resource for droids. There are over 100 droids that can be applied. I believe that graphic immersion and functionality is what is needed for this profession. Also please play Knights of the old republic. And watch all the available Star Wars dvd's. It is creatively inspiring. I am not trying to be a richard here-I just think that the information is very available to get it right in the officefor this game. Cheers.

Message Edited by Ablon on 02-04-2004 06:29 PM

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JustG wrote:

So while Droids are not the MAIN focus, we are addressing some of the DE issues. In the next two publishes, after crackdown, we ARE focussing specifically on Droids. We plan on implementing combat droids (< level 10) in P7, and Utility Droids in P8.

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You guys still are not communicating! Yesterday TH wrote in the droid invasion thread:

___________________________________________________________________________________
Yes. It was a long and hard decision and the team was divided.

No Droid Commander at this time. We are going to focus on utility modules and Droid Engineer Issues.

Combat Droids will be added at some later date.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Then again, perhaps one of you doesn't know a Droid from a Module.

Really, I would rather see some new combat frames than guns to give to an R2, though the MSE bombs sound good,. DZ70 could use a better weapon that made it a realistic lv 10 with lousy armour -- maybe about 200-300/ 2sec would make it usefull only in guard mode to kill off kreetles that attacked me.

Better yet, you could offer higher ability combat droids to Artisan based Elite classes only. No combat balance problems there, and if it was spread around enough it would make for some good sales of droids.

Really JustG.. this is a half-arsed apology.

You let your mouth get out in front of reality. You led your customers to believe something that didn't come true.

How can you be surprised that they were offended and disappointed with the outcome?

No, this isn't the end of civilization or anything. We all make mistakes. I have done the very same thing.

Bite the bullet man. A simple "I screwed up" without the friggen' disclaimers might be a better choice.

But its your statements and your customers.. so I guess you will have to live with the results.

Best Wishes

Nyght

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JustG wrote basically that players get ticked when expectations are not met, as a result of giving them too much specific info, IE: "We go live in January."

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And here lies the main problem of NOT telling the players enough. Let me explain by offering two different styles of communication as examples. These are all made up quotes here, I'm not actually trying to quote you or any of the other devs. I'm just trying to illustrate a point. Assume for each scenario that these are the only posts relating to a particular profession or directed at that profession.

Scenario 1:

(posted prior to the start of the particular development cycle) "We are planning on putting the new [insert system X here] in Publish [Z]. It should be a good one. Hang on to your hats, kids!"

(posted during development phase) "We'd like to get your opinions on some issues. Let us know where you guys stand on issues 1, 2, and 3. Thanks! With your help, we can make this a great game!"

(posted shortly before Publish Z due date) "Well, I've got some bad news. It looks like, based on your comments, we just won't be able to get system X out in time for Publish Z. I know this is disappointing, but in an MMO, you have to expect that things will fluctuate. We're planning now for Publish A1. Stay tuned. Again, my apologies."

Scenario 2:

(posted prior to start of development cycle) "System X is gonna be GREAT! We're looking to push it to live in Publish Z. Stay tuned!"

(posted during development phase) "Ok, to make sure this one works well and has player support, we'd like to guage your reactions to issues 1, 2, and 3. Let us know where you stand."

(posted a week after the player correspondent collects the info and gets it to the devs) "We think your ideas on 1 and 3 are great, but 2 is a little tricky. We're thinking of MAYBE doing something along those lines, but it'd work more like this. Keep in mind, this is all in development and may change."

(posted three weeks before system X is scheduled to go to TC) "Alright, it's looking like issues 1 and 3 are resolved. As we thought, 2 is proving difficult, but we're going to try out our idea on some internal servers to see how it goes. We'll keep you posted."

(posted one week before system X goes to TC) "Issues 1 and 3 are basically set. Issue 2 continues to be a problem. We thought we had it nailed down, but it's looking like server loads are just going to be too heavy from this to actually pull it off. We are going to TRY this on TC, but remember, that's no guarantee that this will go live. Also, we want to let you know right now: if we can't get issue 2 resolved, we're not going to be able to get system X out in time for Publish Z. We know this sucks, but we'd rather give you a robust, fully developed system than a half-baked one. Check out TC, give it a try, and let us know what you think. Expect things on TC in about a week. Keep the ideas coming, though."

(posted one week after system X is put on TC) "Well, as we figured, issue 2 just proved to be unresolvable. As you know, this means we can't get system X out in Publish Z. I know this is a disappointment to you guys, but really, talk to those who played on TC. They'll tell you what a disaster issue 2 turned out to be. We're committed to giving you guys a WORKING system, not just something we cobble together. I know it gets old when game companies say they'll release something 'when it's done', but we really do try to live by that adage. If it ISN'T done, we don't want you guys to be turned off by an imperfect implementation of system X. You guys deserve real credit for your patience, and we now have to ask you to be patient again. I promise you, though, once issue 2 is resolved (and we've got some good ideas on that -- expect a post in about 2 weeks), system X will be well worth the wait. Thanks again guys. This is the nature of the beast when dealing with MMOs."

Now, given my choice, I'd pick Scenario 2 every single time. Do players get disappointed? Absolutely. But it lets 'em down MUCH easier than the bombshells that land with regularity in Scenario 1. In Scenario 1, players are left mostly in the dark. They're left to sit around, cook up their own ridiculously high expectations, or in the alternative, concoct horrifically bad paranoid delusions about how System X will ruin their profession, the game, and life as we know it here on planet Earth. It leads to a see-saw effect in player attitudes. When they get the first post, they're ecstatic. When they get the second one, they're constructive and focused on getting ideas to the devs. But when they get the third one, they plummet and get ANGRY. THAT's the point when they start throwing the word "liar" around.

In scenario 2, however, everyone has fair warning. They're kept roughly in the know about where things stand. I don't mean a constant running comentary, just regular updates on the problem issues, WHY the devs are reluctant to put System X in Publish Z, where they're thinking of taking the system, and reminding players that, if they can't get it right, it won't go live in THIS publish, but it WILL go live later. The other thing that happens in scenario 2 is that players begin to implicitly understand that things are working towards their benefit. The devs really ARE working on system X, and the proof is in the info that's posted for them. They don't need to know about the daily hassles with the code, how this particular script went haywire after it was compiled, etc., etc. But by telling them "Here's where the pitfalls are, here's how we think we may avoid them, and stay tuned for more, True Believers" gives them an understanding that yes, their issues matter. Not only that, but it reassures them that all the info the devs collect isn't going into some massive black hole, being filed under "X" in the basement, or being used to line George Lucas' parakeet's cage. Essentially, it keeps players involved. It doesn't reveal all of what goes on behind the scenes, but it doesn't turn things into the CIA either.

Right now, and for the past six or seven months, Scenario 1 has been the norm for many professions and aspects of the game. Players will get a smidgen of information on the front end, TH will collect info through some mechanism (correspondents, top 5 posts, top 10 posts, etc.), and that's the last the players hear in many cases. In others, they hear "We're going to have a system X in the next patch thanks to your information" and then find out "We talked it over, and we just can't do it" a short while before Publish Z is scheduled to go live. Players are left mostly in the dark and it creates resentment, unrealistic expectations, and results in "liar" or worse being tossed around at the devs.

I urge you guys to adopt the method of Scenario 2. I imagine a LOT of the player ire would be dealt with by doing this. And incidentally, you may THINK you're doing that already, but I promise you, you're not. The players don't feel like they have enough info and they feel like you guys regularly hold a LOT back. More than you should, in fact. Like I said, we don't need every minute detail laid out for us, but we do need to be kept in the know more than we are currently. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Or the short version:

If you don't want to be called a liar, don't lie.

Three rules to live (and practice business by):

Say what you mean.

Mean what you say.

Do what you said.

There. Wasn't that easy?