Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: The Only Viable Alternate Future
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
This sounds very familiar to me. You don't have to shoot anything if you don't like or even program the attack command. Under this proposal, you still get to sell droids to others.
Jenden wrote:
Finally, what happens to those of us who could care less about combat? Are we getting screwed out of a profession because we don't want to waste extra skill points for something we don't want? will we lose all our DE skills if we don't already have master artisan? There's a lot of holes in this idea, and even without them I don't like the direction its heading in.
Ok, I had a nice post written up but the whole all forums locked thing got me and then I had to go for a bit. Anyway, I think you missed my point.
In his suggestion, one of the key elements to allow DE's to have combat droids, as well as to keep more dabblers out is to include master artisan in the pre-requisites. Now, first off it just won't happen, there's too many people that don't have it already, what would you do about those people? Secondly, requiring master artisan screws over those of us who don't want combat droids. We would be essentially paying an additional 48 skill points for something that we could care less about. Furthermore, it pretty much kills a lot of future development in the utility aspect of droids. There are not a limitless number of resources any resources spent developing combat aspects of the profession could have been spent developing utility aspects.
Well put Jenden.
Jenden wrote:
In his suggestion, one of the key elements to allow DE's to have combat droids, as well as to keep more dabblers out is to include master artisan in the pre-requisites. Now, first off it just won't happen, there's too many people that don't have it already, what would you do about those people? Furthermore, it pretty much kills a lot of future development in the utility aspect of droids. There are not a limitless number of resources any resources spent developing combat aspects of the profession could have been spent developing utility aspects.
Drashk wrote:Well put Jenden.
Jenden wrote:In his suggestion, one of the key elements to allow DE's to have combat droids, as well as to keep more dabblers out is to include master artisan in the pre-requisites. Now, first off it just won't happen, there's too many people that don't have it already, what would you do about those people? Furthermore, it pretty much kills a lot of future development in the utility aspect of droids. There are not a limitless number of resources any resources spent developing combat aspects of the profession could have been spent developing utility aspects.
Then why not leave Artisan and DE as they are and have the DH profession consist of one or more skill boxes that requires MDE and MA to aquire? Then DEs who want combat droids can get them, those who want to stay the way they are (MA or not) can.
-norax
Sorry Woody, but this is a horrible idea. If this is the alternative, then I would be forced to campaign for the creation of the Droid Handler profession.
I'm opposed to anything that makes such a radical change to our profession.
Or put combat droid certs for DEs-Only in Master Artisan, just like all the crucial components we need. That way no one HAS TO get Master Artisan, but they can go for it if they want.
N0RAX wrote:
Then why not leave Artisan and DE as they are and have the DH profession consist of one or more skill boxes that requires MDE and MA to aquire? Then DEs who want combat droids can get them, those who want to stay the way they are (MA or not) can.
-norax
I want to be able to use any droids that I make.
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:Or put combat droid certs for DEs-Only in Master Artisan, just like all the crucial components we need. That way no one HAS TO get Master Artisan, but they can go for it if they want.
N0RAX wrote:
Then why not leave Artisan and DE as they are and have the DH profession consist of one or more skill boxes that requires MDE and MA to aquire? Then DEs who want combat droids can get them, those who want to stay the way they are (MA or not) can.
-norax
That would work too.
However, I'm only backing this plan for DE/MA to have the combat droids under the assumption that these combat droids won't be "uber". Maybe one or two "combat droids" of around the pre-nerf Probot level... which up until recently is all I thought the Devs had in mind for Combat Droids
-norax
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
I understood you just fine, man. Sounds like your complaining about DE becoming a hybrid profession because it might impede your playstyle.Sounds a lot like the complaining a lot of us have done about being stuck with pure crafter.
Under Woody's proposal, you could still play a pure-crafter by avoiding combat. Under the DH proposal, the rest of us are screwed. You can add up the hypothical skill points however you want. I'm talking playstyle.
The difference is that you are attempting to change Jenden's play style after-the-fact. He played by the rules and picked a profession that correctly matched his playing style. You now want to force him to change the way he plays despite the fact that he's worked within the system correctly.
Jenden isn'tattempting to change your play style at all - he's preventing you from changing it. You made a poor choice and selected a profession that does not fit your own playing style. You're now unhappy with your own choice and so, rather than selecting a more suitable profession for yourself, you are attempting to change the incorrect profession that you chose into a profession that better suits your own style.
Why should people like Jenden be forced to change so that you can correct your own mistake?
N0RAX wrote:
However, I'm only backing this plan for DE/MA to have the combat droids under the assumption that these combat droids won't be "uber". Maybe one or two "combat droids" of around the pre-nerf Probot level... which up until recently is all I thought the Devs had in mind for Combat Droids
That is the crux of the whole matter. If the DEVs where only planning on wanting to add Level 20 and under droids, do you think there would be such a problem with the Cert idea.
The biggest problem with Droid Certs and making DE a combat profession that can also craft is that we are limiting the Experimentation system.I was under the impression that people wanted the Experimentation system to work correctly at some point. Limiting combat droids to Level 25 and below will guarantee that we will never see a dynamic crafting system like the Bio-Engineers have.
Nailliar wrote:
There is No dynamic now, none, nothing! Go out and spend MILLIONS to get +12 experimentation boxes for what? So your droid Might have 1 pt more HAM if you have the very best materials on the server? You **edit** about being a crafting profession, Crafting by Definition implies you can Make some that is Better than a manufacturer, you can Make the Best droid etc.
Nailliar, this is what I am getting at. Placing such limits now, as suggested by Woody's alternative will ensure that experimentation may never have an effect. Turning DE into a Droid Combat profession is only a band-aid, the same as a Droid Cert system. Droid Engineers will never see a truely dynamic crafting system if droids are limited to Level 20-25. This is one of the many points that every needs to think about before asking to turn DE into a Droid Combat Profession. Doing so now only means that if we ever want to build better droids, either a) DE becomes more like CH, or b) a new profession is added later on.
Drashk wrote:
Nailliar wrote:
There is No dynamic now, none, nothing! Go out and spend MILLIONS to get +12 experimentation boxes for what? So your droid Might have 1 pt more HAM if you have the very best materials on the server? You **edit** about being a crafting profession, Crafting by Definition implies you can Make some that is Better than a manufacturer, you can Make the Best droid etc.Nailliar, this is what I am getting at. Placing such limits now, as suggested by Woody's alternative will ensure that experimentation may never have an effect. Turning DE into a Droid Combat profession is only a band-aid, the same as a Droid Cert system. Droid Engineers will never see a truely dynamic crafting system if droids are limited to Level 20-25. This is one of the many points that every needs to think about before asking to turn DE into a Droid Combat Profession. Doing so now only means that if we ever want to build better droids, either a) DE becomes more like CH, or b) a new profession is added later on.
I think we'd all like to see experimentation matter on some things like Item Storage, Medical Modules, etc. I'd love to be able to experiment on my Probot's HAM and Damage to a degree. But I don't want to be a Bio-Engineer, I want to be able to use the droids I make.
Drashk, exactly how many "Combat Droids" do the Devs have in mind? And what possible Skills do they have in mind for "Droid Handlers"? I can't think of enough skills to fill an entire profession, nor I can imagine 5 or 6 droids being sufficient for a "Droid Handler" profession when CH's have 100s of pets to choose from. Can you shed any light on this? Information like this could really help sway people to one side or the other.
-norax