Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sorry folks, the math says probots are overpowered like hell
This isn't about droid engineers, it's about the CL rating system. Something Bio-engineer more than any other profession in the game understand a great deal about. When you compare a wild animal to a clone you can see our bonus to stats in effect giving clones a slight advantage over wild animals. The devs said this is an acceptable bonus. Looking at the probot however it is actually vastly more powerful to any CL10 mob in the game and every clone we make (even the invalid ones) yet we have the 9000 HAM and 49% resistance to everything ones whipped out from under us because the devs say it's overpowered.
What I want to know is why a CL10 clone with 17647 effective HAM is considered overpowered when a CL10probot droid with 19800 effective HAM is not. If they are going to nerf one claming it's overpowered they have to nerf the other, if they don't then there is a rock solid case for having our super-clones back for all non-ch players to own. If they don't it makes the developers hypocrites and liers as to their reasoning. The probot is actually equal to a CL20 mob.. did you know that? If they can allow any player to have a CL20 droid then they can equally give players CL20 animal pets.
So, Tal-N, are you a Dev? Do you know exactly what statistics "Creature Level" is based on, or its true purpose? Can you point out any Dev posts that corroborate your opinion on what "CL" really is under the hood? Or are you just assuming you know?
Keep in mind that you are drawing conclusions about something you don't fully understand (and neither do we).
Tal, the devs actually increased the ability of the Probot a little with the last patch to bring it closer in line with what CL 10 should be. If ya want to **edit** and moan about how underpowered CL 10 Bio pets are, feel free, but do it in the proper forum. In fact this isn't even the proper forum for this post. If this post isn't about Droid Engineers, as you said, it does not belong here. Take your rantings elsewhere.
Tal-N:
a) Your HAM calculation math is facinating, but faulty. Just take the medium armor factor, and consider the 40% resists on a top-line ADV Probot. You might get away with calling the Probot a 5k HAM...until it gets hit by something with armor-piercing. *splat*
b) If they are so good, why don't I see many folks with Probots out?
c) "The math" says that nobody much agrees with your odd conclusions. Obviously, you are right and everybody else is wrong. /lol
d) As a community I think we'd prefer you went away. Go talk about something you know about, somewhere else.
Run some of the math simulations yourself in how fast the a CL20 mob would take to kill a Probot and vice versa. You'll find there is a very real chance of a probot killing a CL20 mob assuming that the CL20 mob actually misses a few times or hit for a low damage roll (or if they simply aren't very well protected to energy damage). The math is really very simple to do, who will kill who first. All you have to do is work out the effective ham a mob will take from energy damage hits before they'd die, then run the same against the droid but it can be for any damage type you want meaning overall it's 'tougher' or just as tough as a CL20 mob you find in the game since they will never have resistance to everything meaning they have certain weaknesses that drop their CL rating a bit.
Also you should check your own forum, the probot peaks at 120 damage over 1.5 seconds and 990 HAM not 70-80 like they used to be.
Anyway here's the evidence that they can stand their ground very well against CL20 mobs and defeat CL18 ones. Remember that a Probot has 6600 effective HAM to everything in a single pool:
Tal-N wrote:
But a Probot being CL 20? Rediculous. It's "effective HAM" as you say, may approach that of a CL 20 Pet, but effective HAM is not a good indicator, for a bunch of reasons. Look at the damage output of a probot, 70-80. What CL 20 Mob or Pet do you know of that does thatlittle damage? CL 20 would do more in the area of 200 or so damage.
Run some of the math simulations yourself in how fast the a CL20 mob would take to kill a Probot and vice versa. You'll find there is a very real chance of a probot killing a CL20 mob assuming that the CL20 mob actually misses a few times or hit for a low damage roll (or if they simply aren't very well protected to energy damage). The math is really very simple to do, who will kill who first. All you have to do is work out the effective ham a mob will take from energy damage hits before they'd die, then run the same against the droid but it can be for any damage type you want meaning overall it's 'tougher' or just as tough as a CL20 mob you find in the game since they will never have resistance to everything meaning they have certain weaknesses that drop their CL rating a bit.
Also you should check your own forum, the probot peaks at 120 damage over 1.5 seconds and 990 HAM not 70-80 like they used to be.
Anyway here's the evidence that they can stand their ground very well against CL20 mobs and defeat CL18 ones. Remember that a Probot has 6600 effective HAM to everything in a single pool:
Alpha Veermok (CL20) 5% to energy damage, 5500 per pool, effective HAM vs energy is 5789. Total effective energy HAM is 17367.
Max DPS for this animal is 100dps.Best probot DPS is 80dps (thats based on 120 damage at 1.5 secs)
Theoretically if the probot hits the same pool on the Veermok every time then itwill kill the Veermok in72 seconds.
Theorectically if the Veermok hits the same pool on the Probot every time then it will kill the Probot in66 seconds.
....
(CL18) Arachne hatchling.
Resistance to energy is 10%, effective HAM to energy is therefore 4444. Total effective energy HAM is 13332.
Max DPS for this animal is 85.
Theoretically if the probot hits the same pool on theHatchling every time then itwill kill theHatchling in55 seconds.
Theorectically if theHatchling hits the same pool on the Probot every time then it will kill the Probot in77 seconds.
....
(CL20) Blurrg Hunter
Energy resistance is 20%, effective HAM to energy is 5000. Max DPS for this animal is 95dps.
Blurrg Hunter kills Probot in69 seconds.
Probot kills Blurrg Hunter in 62 seconds.
....
Bark mite burrower swarmling (CL20)
Energy resistance is 20%, effective HAM to energy is 5250. Max DPS for this animal is 110.
Bark mite kills probot in 60 seconds.
Probot kills Bark mite in 65 seconds.
....
Angler (CL22)
Energy resistance is 10%, effective energy HAM is 7222. Max DPS is 110.
Angler kills Probot in 60 seconds.
Probot kills Angler in 90 seconds.
....
Berserk kahmurra (CL19)
Energy resistance is zero, effective energy ham is therefore 5000. Max DPS is 95.
Kahmurra kills Probot in 69 seconds.
Probot kills Kahmurra in 62 seconds.
....
Therefore it does appear from this that a probot is most likely around CL19-20 since that is the level it fights at.
You're making way to many assumptions here. 100dps for a probot is not what's currently on live. They do 70-80 damage every 2.4 or so seconds. Thats about 31 dps. You can't bring in the Probot that is currently on Test, as they are still "In Testing" (Imagine that?!?) and are subject to tweaks.
You're also assuming that both combatants will hit each other every time. If you'veever owned a probot, you'd realize that they're lucky to hit a target once every 2 or 3 shots, at whatever range. They are not very accurate, whereas a melee mob at close range is very likely to hit more often than that.
Are these tests based on actual field tests, or did you just conjure these up in the warped mind of yours? Theoretical tests are all well and good, but they have no basis in reality. Crawl out from under your rock and actually try these tests, and you'll see that your assumptions are way off.
Tal-N wrote:
Also you should check your own forum, the probot peaks at 120 damage over 1.5 seconds and 990 HAM not 70-80 like they used to be.
You're making way to many assumptions here. 100dps for a probot is not what's currently on live. They do 70-80 damage every 2.4 or so seconds. Thats about 31 dps. You can't bring in the Probot that is currently on Test, as they are still "In Testing" (Imagine that?!?) and are subject to tweaks.
You're also assuming that both combatants will hit each other every time. If you'veever owned a probot, you'd realize that they're lucky to hit a target once every 2 or 3 shots, at whatever range. They are not very accurate, whereas a melee mob at close range is very likely to hit more often than that.
Are these tests based on actual field tests, or did you just conjure these up in the warped mind of yours? Theoretical tests are all well and good, but they have no basis in reality. Crawl out from under your rock and actually try these tests, and you'll see that your assumptions are way off.
I'm attempting to avoid a nerf when this hits live and the devs realise something is up, something any DE I would have realised by now. The fact I'm basing it on the fact they would hit each other every time is besides the point since the mobs in the game around CL10-20 hit for around 30% of the time exactly like the probot. So for all intents and purposes they'd hit just as much as each other reguardless of range. A mob also has knockdown attacks too which will tip the balance in their favour however we know that special attacks have utterly no effect on the CL rating so that can be dismissed. Are these based on field tests? No, they are simulations like I said. Accurate enough that if you took a probot on the TC now against these mobs you'd see these results played out.
If someone on the TC can make me one of those probots then I'd be happy to go around testing it but if you point blank refuse to accept the simulations what chance is there of you accepting screenshot documentation? I get the feeling I'd be wasting my time to be honest.
Tal-N wrote:
I'm attempting to avoid a nerf when this hits live and the devs realise something is up, something any DE I would have realised by now.
You started this thread before the probots on Test were bumped up. Or do you have ESP?
The fact I'm basing it on the fact they would hit each other every time is besides the point since the mobs in the game around CL10-20 hit for around 30% of the time exactly like the probot.
This is untrue. Send in a Probot against any mob in the game and check the combat spam, the mob will hit more often than the probot will. A probot doesn't have any dodge or counterattack mods, or at least it doesn't seem so.
So for all intents and purposes they'd hit just as much as each other reguardless of range. A mob also has knockdown attacks too which will tip the balance in their favour however we know that special attacks have utterly no effect on the CL rating so that can be dismissed. Are these based on field tests? No, they are simulations like I said. Accurate enough that if you took a probot on the TC now against these mobs you'd see these results played out.
I'd be willing to bet you won't see your "results" played out. You are only taking intoaccount a few factors, when the big picture is much larger. If I had the ability to make you a Probot on Test I would, but my TC DE is barely a novice.
If someone on the TC can make me one of those probots then I'd be happy to go around testing it but if you point blank refuse to accept the simulations what chance is there of you accepting screenshot documentation? I get the feeling I'd be wasting my time to be honest.
Facts, not theory. I would accept your writings if they were based on actual tests, but they are not. Your theories are full of holes, and don't hold water. If you were to perform these actual tests, then that's a different story. But the Probot isn't as powerful as you claim it to be, even in the Test iteration. If you can back up your claim with facts, and not flawed theory, I'll believe you.
Message Edited by duncje on 03-03-2004 10:47 AM
Message Edited by duncje on 03-03-2004 10:55 AM
Tal-N wrote:
I'm attempting to avoid a nerf when this hits live and the devs realise something is up, something any DE I would have realised by now.