Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: Sorry folks, the math says probots are overpowered like hell
Alacrity wrote:
Does anyone really know EXACTLY what statistics are used to define "Creature Level"?
I don't think so. I think the developers just get a feel for how strong it seems to be and go from there.
As to what duncje said: i agree. no two CL10 pets (creature or droid) are exactly equal. And any attempt to classify all pets on a single scale is going to involve intuitive feel and guesswork and wont be exactly perfect. This is why i said its a question of how much better the probot really is. is it better enough to be fairly classified as CL11? or is it really CL10? I'm not claiming to be able to evaluate the CL of a pet either way.
That said, i've yet to see a CL10 pet that had better stats than my advanced probot. They all seem to average a bit weaker than the probot, particularly in terms of the armor. But I haven't seen enough CL11 pets to have a feel for how the probot compares to them.
duncje wrote:
DarthIguana wrote:
I'm not convinced that probots are so much over powered as too multifunctional. I like the way the devs are carrying out the new combat modules and how they are used, the exception being AdvR3s becoming the most powerful combat droid possible. Currently, probots are CL10 (ish, feel free to debate that) combat droids AND capable of carrying utility modules making them a no brainer choice for the all purpose droid while the R series and walkie talkies are only utility droids. Trading utility modules for combat modules makes perfect sense and brings the probot into line with other droids functionality wise.
ChrisSell me a probot with all 4 crafting stations, max medical, and item storage then. Oh that's right.... you can't. If you want to put all those in a droid you'll have to sell me an R3. Or if you want the probot, you'll have to limit your 6 choices to 2. How is this not a tradeoff?
Message Edited by duncje on 03-02-2004 10:24 AM
Sell me an R3 with CL10 combat capability AND utility functions. No, you can't do that either, but that's just an inherant characteristic of teh chassis. What I am saying is that, if you look at droids in the most general sense, as carcasses for functions, you get more out of a fully loaded Probot than you do an R3. Based on the way combat modules will stack for maximum power, with Pub7, a 6 utility module droid = a CL10 combat. The current probot model exceeds that formula because it's a CL10 + 2 utility modules. It just makes sense from a ballance perspective that a fully powered combat droid have no utility functions and vice versa.
Chris
DarthIguana wrote:
Sell me an R3 with CL10 combat capability AND utility functions.
R3's shouldn't have combat fuctionality. Period. They are used for maintenance and repair, not hunting.
I see your point, but my point is they are lessening the functionality of the droids we currently have. And this Publish is supposed to be Droid Engineer enhancements. Enhancements, by definition, do not take away from what is currently there.
Alacrity wrote:
Astromechs will have buzzsaws and arcwelders, IIUC. That fits in with the movies just fine, as I remember R2-D2 having both those things.
Yeah, and R2 used them to zap rats and cut ropes. They're tools, not weapons. At least not CL10 caliber weapons.
Chris
True. But if those weapons/tools are fairly weak and short-ranged, I won't have a problem. They can be used for emergency defense, and not for hunting.
DarthIguana wrote:
Alacrity wrote:
Astromechs will have buzzsaws and arcwelders, IIUC. That fits in with the movies just fine, as I remember R2-D2 having both those things.
Yeah, and R2 used them to zap rats and cut ropes. They're tools, not weapons. At least not CL10 caliber weapons.
Chris
What the original poster fails to realize is CH pets CAN BE HEALED. Not so with droids. Sure in a single battle a droid might be a better choise. But, they cant be healed. So lets say your droid takes 500 damage in a battle to one of its HAM bars. This happens quite frequently. Now what? Heres what happens. In your data pad or out, your droid heals at the rate of 5 health every 18.5 seconds. And there is no way to speed that up.
So if you want to wait for your droid to get back to full health, it will take 30 mins. Or if you just want to wait till your droid gets back to 600 health for the next battle, it will take 18 and a half mins. Even if you have 2 droids and alternate them, very quickly you have 2 droids with HAM bars around 100.Not to mention you haveto make camp quite frequently to change droids,which of couse requires scouting skills.
On the other hand, you can heal a CH pet in battle. So even a pet with 700 HAM potentially has more health than a 800 HAM probot. 3 heals of 400 each, easy enough with HQ pet healpacks, raises your CH pet health to 1900. Add to that the fact that BEs can add up to 2 special attacks to level 10 pets, and they are even more powerful.
Yes droids can bemore powerful than CH pets, but they are situational, once they get low on HAM they are worthless, whereas CH pets can be healed in or out of battle, and in some cases can be your mount too.
Each type of pet has its strengths and weaknesses, to say one is better than the other just shows you dont see the big picture of this game, which is, there is no best for all situations. One on one, a droid may be fine, but five on one, and you will sure beglad your pet is also your mount.
Sunfire1 wrote:
What the original poster fails to realize is CH pets CAN BE HEALED. Not so with droids. Sure in a single battle a droid might be a better choise. But, they cant be healed. So lets say your droid takes 500 damage in a battle to one of its HAM bars. This happens quite frequently. Now what? Heres what happens. In your data pad or out, your droid heals at the rate of 5 health every 18.5 seconds. And there is no way to speed that up.
So if you want to wait for your droid to get back to full health, it will take 30 mins. Or if you just want to wait till your droid gets back to 600 health for the next battle, it will take 18 and a half mins. Even if you have 2 droids and alternate them, very quickly you have 2 droids with HAM bars around 100.Not to mention you haveto make camp quite frequently to change droids,which of couse requires scouting skills.
On the other hand, you can heal a CH pet in battle. So even a pet with 700 HAM potentially has more health than a 800 HAM probot. 3 heals of 400 each, easy enough with HQ pet healpacks, raises your CH pet health to 1900. Add to that the fact that BEs can add up to 2 special attacks to level 10 pets, and they are even more powerful.
Yes droids can bemore powerful than CH pets, but they are situational, once they get low on HAM they are worthless, whereas CH pets can be healed in or out of battle, and in some cases can be your mount too.
Each type of pet has its strengths and weaknesses, to say one is better than the other just shows you dont see the big picture of this game, which is, there is no best for all situations. One on one, a droid may be fine, but five on one, and you will sure beglad your pet is also your mount.
Shh..they can be healed in Pub 7
Not that that makes a bit of differnce to the Troll who started this thread, since he already knows that.
To the original poster, who by the way has been stirring up discontent anywhere and everywhere he can:
Yo BE dude, its been a long long time, and DE is coming right at you and your monstosities. You killed CH, dont even for a moment think it will be as easy with us.
Love and kisses
duncje wrote:
DarthIguana wrote:
Sell me an R3 with CL10 combat capability AND utility functions.R3's shouldn't have combat fuctionality. Period. They are used for maintenance and repair, not hunting.
I see your point, but my point is they are lessening the functionality of the droids we currently have. And this Publish is supposed to be Droid Engineer enhancements. Enhancements, by definition, do not take away from what is currently there.
Ootwo,
I do agree with you on both points. The R units I craft will not have combat modules installed in them PERIOD. Astromechs aren't war machines, at least mine won't be. I can't believe that Lucas Arts or whoever approves this sort of thing to protect the Star Wars franchise would find combat R units acceptable.
As for nerfing our probots, well, yeah, I'd prefer that our products be enhanced rather than clipped BUT if it makes the profession more consistant and everything works correctly, then I can live with it.
I have an idea to save the probot and maintane the integrity of the R unit: Disallow combat modules in R units and make 5 combat modules max out the combat power of a droid.
Chris
That's all fine and good, but how many times did you see R2 actually fight? R2 never used those things offensively. There were used in utility, and maybe self-defense a few times. Astromechdroids are primarily used for maintenance, repair andstarship navigation.
Alacrity wrote:
Astromechs will have buzzsaws and arcwelders, IIUC. That fits in with the movies just fine, as I remember R2-D2 having both those things.
Tal-
I don't believe you're being called a troll simply for presenting facts we may or may not like. You're being called a troll because you're not a DE and the point of this post is obviously to stir up controversy. If you want to stir up controversy, at least pick a profession you know something about, and go elsewhere.
You don't go into somebody's house and tell them how they should run things. You admittedly know nothing about being a DE, so please don't tell us what we should and should not be.
Message Edited by duncje on 03-03-2004 08:25 AM