Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: DEs Unite: A compromise for the DE/Crafter and DE/CH camps
I would gladly forget about the certifications if the mob AI was improved, for example if a mob was being attacked by someone and his droid, the mob would go after the weaker of the two always (maybe not always, but at least 70% of the time) because then the n00bies would just die quickly, and they wouldnt be able to use the droids as their own tanks.
It would be a good thing if TH saw that as a way to prevent the same situation with noobs with super powerful droids happen again.
We should start bringing that up more often
Also, if we get battle droids (roger rogers), since they have hands it would be neat if we could put any kind of blaster (carbines only? i think they used carbines in the movies) in their hands, so the richer DE's could make them a lot better.
Hawk, what you are saying doesn't make sense...
(1) If the devs give us better combat droids, it will be done only after a lot of balancing discussion as to how powerful they should be. Thinking that devs are going to give us combat droids and then take them away by nerfing themis stupid. The only reason it happened the first time was because the game was new and they didn't have much experience in the issue. Things have changed since that time.
(2) Devs are not going to implement 14 differeent kinds of droids, and will not give us 30 different certifications (one for each class).Theywant a simple, quickfix that iseasy to implement. We will get one, maybe 2 new droids and maybe some new modules. If all you ask for is complicated stuff like this you will get nothing.
(3) How could removing combat droids even be an option?
My solution gives good combat droids that are sellable, a small number of them, easy implementation (same droids for everyone, DEs get more), and something unique and special to the class (we get to handle 2-3 combat droids instead of only one). Why does htis not solve every problem you think we have? Why does it need to be more complicated than this?
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I would gladly forget about the certifications if the mob AI was improved, for example if a mob was being attacked by someone and his droid, the mob would go after the weaker of the two always (maybe not always, but at least 70% of the time) because then the n00bies would just die quickly, and they wouldnt be able to use the droids as their own tanks.
It would be a good thing if TH saw that as a way to prevent the same situation with noobs with super powerful droids happen again.
We should start bringing that up more often
Eric,
This is an OUTSTANDING point. I forgot all about the mob AI improvements. I agree we need to highlight this fact in our droid proposals.
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Also, if we get battle droids (roger rogers), since they have hands it would be neat if we could put any kind of blaster (carbines only? i think they used carbines in the movies) in their hands, so the richer DE's could make them a lot better.
I also wholeheartedly agree with this. I think this would be very cool.
Oh another thought. The improved mob AI would also help stop some of the lesser combat droids from never being used, my thought being that if the droids combat abilities is more in line with that of its owner, a mob wouldnt always go for the owner righ away since both pose about an equal threat. So the n00bies would buy the weaker combat droids, and as they get stronger upgrade, so more money for those of us who sell our droids.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
I would prefer the devs to ask for feedback, and us to have varied combat skills on the droids.Maybe droideka are the best at pure shooting. Maybe we get battle droids (roger rogers) thatwave a weaker generalattack, but can throw (or launch if you prefer) grenades that hit mobs with an area attack. Droidekas would be better for pure one on one fighting, battle droids better for groups. Maybeadd the ability to give the battle droid anygun in the crafting process, thereby allowing custimization and specialization.
Holy cow.
Excellent idea.
We need variety for combat droids, the attacks they have, and the strengths of attack.
The more variety, the more markets we have and the better we can serve our customers.
And battle droids with any gun - that's the ticket. They are bipedal and carry guns. This would make perfect sense. We sella base droidand let people equipe them with whatever they want. It gives customers the option to customize thier own droids, AND helps drive weaponsmith sales.
Win-Win-Win situation.
EricTheGreat wrote:
I would gladly forget about the certifications if the mob AI was improved, for example if a mob was being attacked by someone and his droid, the mob would go after the weaker of the two.....and they wouldnt be able to use the droids as their own tanks.
It would be a good thing if TH saw that as a way to prevent the same situation with noobs with super powerful droids happen again.
Also, if we get battle droids (roger rogers), since they have hands it would be neat if we could put any kind of blaster (carbines only? i think they used carbines in the movies) in their hands, so the richer DE's could make them a lot better.
The main purpose of combat pets is tanking. If we take that away we seriously reduce the effectiveness and usefulness of all pets.
The problems with creature pets did not arise from the fact that noobs could have pets, but that they could pull out three super powerful pets with very few skill points expended to gain such a huge advantage.
This has been fixed with the big CH revision.
Non-CH players will only be able to pull out one pet of below average strength.
If you want to have more pets or stronger pets, you'llhave to use skill points to gain that ability.
This was a combat balancing issue. And the devs have attempted to balance it so unskilled players cannot have such a huge advantage. If you want the toys, you have to pay the price.
Given the problems which the CH profession experienced, the problems have been resolved to the devs satisfaction, and these problems will not plague the DE profession if the same scheme is used to implement DE only droids.
Equiping battle droids with standard weapons would be an excellent idea for customizing these combat droids.
SigmaTech wrote:
I really think certifications are the only true way to restrict use. DE-Only combat droids would do it also, but then you'd kill the general market for combat droids while also opening it up to "dabblers" who take Novice DE just to use the upper-end combat droids. Keeping it DE only but putting certs in the DE tree will only move us more towards a CH profession that makes its pets, which would piss off both CH and BE. We aren't that, we're a crafting class. No droid should be better than a master-level CH pet, because the CH spent skill points to get that pet. A random player using a droid didn't spend skill points to be able to use it.
DE only combat droids will not kill the general market for combat droids if the skills for using themare implemented properly.
And if players take a few DE skill boxes to use droids, so what? They're only taking the skills needed to use the droids, not build them.
It doesn't matter if certs in the DE tree would piss off CH.
Combat droids will be in direct competition with CH creature pets.
That's what their for!
No droid should be better than a master-level CH pet, because the CH spent skill points to get that pet???
What good are master level combat droids in that case? Who will use them if they can just go get a CH pet that's stronger? No one will buy combat droids if they're underpowered. That will kill the general market...
If a player spends DE skill points to get a droid,there's no difference than if they spent CH skill points to get a creature.
What is the difference???
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What good are master level combat droids in that case? Who will use them if they can just go get a CH pet that's stronger? No one will buy combat droids if they're underpowered. That will kill the general market...
Fundamental Flaw with this logic...you aren't paying attention.
(1) Non-CH creatures are about to be nerfed to CL10 (in other words, worthless chubas).
(2) Faction pets are only usable by overt players (newest dev numbers show this is 2.5% of all players) and have already been nerfed so that they can ONLY be used against factional targets (basically limited to pvp).
(3) Most players want a pet, which is why the creature level is being nerfed, and why all players will now be limited to one pet.
So, against this backdrop, it should be CRYSTAL CLEAR to you that it will not take much improvement to the combat abilities of droids for them to overcome the weakness of CL10 pets and faction pets to become THE pet of choice for most players.
My point is that droids ARE currently underpowered (same or even less useful than the CL 10 pets) and we NEED stronger combat droids (to sell). The ONLY thing that will kill the market is a selfish desire to have combat droids that only we can use.
As for combat droids being as powerful as CH pets. Please let me remind you that this will never happen. Devs know as well as we do that putting CHs into the game with high creature level, powerful pets was the worst mistake they could have made.There is no thing in game that is more imbalancing that CH pets,and CHs are going to be systematically nerfed throughtout the life of the game. Devs will not make that mistake twice by making us another, just as powerful, CH class. If you think this is an option you need to go live with Mickey Mouse in the big blue castle (fantasy land).
At most, we will get one, MAYBE two combat droids. Niether will be very strong. You have 2 choices:
(1) Droids are sellable to everyone. We get the benefit of selling these droids to others, as well as a combat droid benefit of being able to wield 2 to 3 reasonably powerful droids (whereas non-DEs can only have one).
-or-
(2) Combat droids are not sellable to everyone. They are also not very powerful. Devs won't give us the power we asked for, and we shot ourselves in the foot by asking only for DE-only droids. We still suck, and the half of us that actually want to do the thing we are designed for (crafting) still have no market.
You make the call...I think the choice is obvious.
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1 really nice DE-only combat droid is not going to kill the market as long as a few combat droids that anyone can use are added as well.
This is my point...we will not get a bunch of new combat droids. We are also not going to get any really nice droids (because then devs will make the CH mistake again).
What we will get is one, maybe two new droids. These droids will be reasonably powerful, at most as powerful as the pre-nerf probot. Making one or both of these new droidDE-only will kill the market. Especially considering that the non-DE models will have to be gimped to make them less powerful than a reasonably powered DE-only droid.
Why does it have to be this complicated? Why not just implement one, maybe 2 new droids, usuable by all, and give us the ability to call more of them?
No complicated certifications.
No complications from having to design new droids (droidekas are already in game).
Just good, sellable droids that we get the advantage of handling several of.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Anyone who is a noobie can't afford super powerful droids. How do they get them?
It took me a month and a half as a new player to be able to afford my first probot.
Any one of a number of ways.
Really easy: Join a PA with friends and have the PA provide high-end combat droids.
Pretty darn easy:
Day one: Dedicate your first day in-game to getting Survey IV.
Day two: run 900cr survey missions for an hour, buy a fleet of personal harvesters.
Day three: collect 15-20k resources. Sell stacks of 1k on the bazaar for 3k apiece.
Day four: you have 45-60k. Buy any droid you like.
More complex droids? Big deal. Wait another day or two.
You probably just weren't thinking in terms of maximizing wealth when you first started playing. I wasn't either, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.
Availability of funds is not the best way to determine who should have access to what combat tools.
The ability to make cute toons and sucker desperate geekboys should also not be a key to getting the best combat tools in the game.