Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: DEs Unite: A compromise for the DE/Crafter and DE/CH camps
Quote:
Pretty darn easy:
Day one: Dedicate your first day in-game to getting Survey IV.
Day two: run 900cr survey missions for an hour, buy a fleet of personal harvesters.
Day three: collect 15-20k resources. Sell stacks of 1k on the bazaar for 3k apiece.
Day four: you have 45-60k. Buy any droid you like.
Come on!!!!! Anyone who does this is not a noob. You have to be very efficient and know exactly what you are doing to pull this off.
Besides that:
(1) it takes more than a day to get Survey IV...back before the macro surveying nerf it took me 3 solid days (about 40 hours) of AFK macroing to get Survey IV. AFK macroing is now basically impossible because the game shuts off after 30 minutes to an hour of being AFK.
(2) You have to have money to pay the maintenance on each of those harvesters (720 creds per harvester per day)
(3) You have to buy or manufacture power to run all of those harvesters (600 units a day per harvester; per your logic 1800 credits a day).
(4) I have run survey missions a lot, and unless you luck out and get a close resource, it takes close to an hour to run 2 missions alone.
and, most importantly
(5) If you collect that much money legally, you deserve to have a droid. That player could have spent that money on armor, weapons, clothing, etc. It will not be unbalancing for the player to have a droid because: (a) the player gets no experience for the things the droid kills, and (b) the players is going to die if they buy a droid before weapons and armor because the devs are making all mobs in the game perodically break off attacks on pets and go after the master.
As for a guild giving the player money to buy a droid, the guild could also give the noob powerful weapons and take the player out and power level him to whatever certification you propose for having a combat droid. I went from non-brawler to part of the way into pikemen this weekend with a group of guildies in a couple of hours (The Holo told me to 
. The only way to stop noob who really want good pets from having them is to take them out of the game.
In sum, you are talking out your a$$. Better luck next time.
Come on!!!!! Anyone who does this is not a noob. You have to be very efficient and know exactly what you are doing to pull this off.
People write FAQs. Noobs read FAQs. Established players create new characters on other galaxies. Happens in every game.
(1) it takes more than a day to get Survey IV...back before the macro surveying nerf it took me 3 solid days (about 40 hours) of AFK macroing to get Survey IV. AFK macroing is now basically impossible because the game shuts off after 30 minutes to an hour of being AFK.
I don't know what you were doing, but it took me less than three days to get Survey IV, and I have never macro sampled once. Besides which, there are plenty of ways you can convince the system you're not really AFK even if you are. You can still find plenty of people macro-sampling all day long, even after you say they made it "impossible."
(2) You have to have money to pay the maintenance on each of those harvesters (720 creds per harvester per day)
Four pairs of survey missions a day for ten harvesters, even if you couldn't pay for them exclusively with profits from selling resources.
(3) You have to buy or manufacture power to run all of those harvesters (600 units a day per harvester; per your logic 1800 credits a day).
Power is much cheaper. Easy to find for 1cpu or less. Or make two of your harvesters wind generators. My previous numbers were based on 8 harvesters anyway (I own a small house, so I wasn't thinking 10). You can trade the output of one harvester for one day for all the power you need for all the harvesters for the next day.
(4) I have run survey missions a lot, and unless you luck out and get a close resource, it takes close to an hour to run 2 missions alone.
Luck? How hard is it to find one 70% deposit of any metal, ore or gas, at around 1024m from one artisan mission terminal somewhere in the galaxy? It's not a matter of luck. Just a matter of looking. If it's taking you an hour to run one pair of missions, you're just not trying very hard. I could make enough to buy any droid you'd care to sell me in a day running survey missions alone. It's boring as hell, but possible.
(5) If you collect that much money legally, you deserve to have a droid. That player could have spent that money on armor, weapons, clothing, etc. It will not be unbalancing for the player to have a droid because: (a) the player gets no experience for the things the droid kills, and (b) the players is going to die if they buy a droid before weapons and armor because the devs are making all mobs in the game perodically break off attacks on pets and go after the master.
I'm sure there are folks arguing that if you think to get the right combination of BH, CH and Pistoleer skills, along with faction pets, you deserve to have the power to solo anything in the game. In fact, I've seen that very argument. But it doesn't take skill or smarts. It just takes somebody telling you how it works. Expensive droids pose the same problem, and your answer here isn't really all that different.
As for a guild giving the player money to buy a droid, the guild could also give the noob powerful weapons and take the player out and power level him to whatever certification you propose for having a combat droid. I went from non-brawler to part of the way into pikemen this weekend with a group of guildies in a couple of hours (The Holo told me to . The only way to stop noob who really want good pets from having them is to take them out of the game.
But PLing at least involves some risk and actually builds the combat skills necessary. The noob would still have to be certed for the powerful weapons as he leveled. You can't necessarily stop PLing, but that's another discussion entirely.
In sum, you are talking out your a$$. Better luck next time.
Uncalled for, especially since you're just wrong. Just because you never figured out how to make money efficiently doesn't mean other people haven't. Availability of money is not the universal limitation you seem to think it is.
Kitsunetsuki wrote:
Pretty darn easy:
Day one: Dedicate your first day in-game to getting Survey IV.
Day two: run 900cr survey missions for an hour, buy a fleet of personal harvesters.
Day three: collect 15-20k resources. Sell stacks of 1k on the bazaar for 3k apiece.
Day four: you have 45-60k. Buy any droid you like.
More complex droids? Big deal. Wait another day or two.
Availability of funds is not the best way to determine who should have access to what combat tools.
I don't know, if anyone pulls that off, I think they deserve any droid they want.
Surveying is a totally legitimate business, and the person has to work hard to getto Survey IV regardless of how many days it takes you (1 or more). It still takes many hours. It's notas easy as being a twink and getting 100k from a friend.
It's not hard to climb to Novice DE anyways if you have help. I'm not sure certification is a marginal improvement. It only extends the wait maybe a few days. I'd say, nothing's going to stop a committed player who's got time on his/her hands from getting the certification and droid they need in a week. So it's not an issue of speed, and thus certification is only a momentary impediment.
If you're going to apply certification on combat droids (and only combat droids), I recommend basing it off the generic combat branch. I think you get experience in that tree regardless of what weapon/profession you are. Once you get to level 4 combat, let it be determined by credits. A DE should get instant certification for the droid once he/she is able tobuild it, of course.
Personally I don't like certification ofcombat droids, and I thinkthat money is a reasonable balancing force. But like I said, I'm not fond of twinking either. If something's going to be put in place, I'd prefer if it was something like what I'vesuggested above.
Quote:
People write FAQs. Noobs read FAQs. Established players create new characters on other galaxies. Happens in every game.
Established players aren't noobs. Also, no noob can simply ready a faq and become as expert and efficient as they would have to do the things you are asserting. As a said...get real.
Quote:
I don't know what you were doing, but it took me less than three days to get Survey IV, and I have never macro sampled once. Besides which, there are plenty of ways you can convince the system you're not really AFK even if you are. You can still find plenty of people macro-sampling all day long, even after you say they made it "impossible."
Never macro sampled? So what did you do when you ran out of action, and your character stood up and stopped sampling? How did you start sampling again? Have you ever even sampled before?
It takes atLEAST 24 hours of surveying to get the xp needed to "master" surveying. Without macro surveying, you are telling me that you sat at your computer for over 24 hours straight babysitting your character to make him (or her) start sampling again every time your ham bar ran out. Riiiiiight... I believe you (sarcasm).
Regardless of this BS you are trying to feed me, you are still wrong. You said you can master surveying in a day. You can't.
And FYI...using tricks to "convince" the system you are not AFK = illegal, bannable offense. Short of having no job and setting your alarm to wake you up every 30 minutes so you can go giggle the mouse, you are cheating. When I said "impossible" I meant impossible within the legal limits of the game. I wouldn't post any more "tricks" here if I were you.
Quote:
Four pairs of survey missions a day for ten harvesters, even if you couldn't pay for them exclusively with profits from selling resources...
Power is much cheaper. Easy to find for 1cpu or less. Or make two of your harvesters wind generators. My previous numbers were based on 8 harvesters anyway (I own a small house, so I wasn't thinking 10). You can trade the output of one harvester for one day for all the power you need for all the harvesters for the next day.
Ok let me lay this out for you in detail. A harvester costs 1000cr, with an additional 720cr a day in maintenance, and 600cr a day in power (assuming everything is as you say).
So, you first day of harvesting is going to cost you 23,200 (2320 * 10), and 13,200 every day after that.
Four pairs of 900cr missions = 7200cr...half of what you need for daily upkeep, and 1/4 of what you need to buy and upkeep the harvesters for the first day. Your numbers are exaggerated.
Now on to the actual running of missions...
From the way you are describing how "easy" you missions are, I assume you are doing the following.Flying from place to place until you find a town with a high % of certain kind of resource close. When you find one, you search though the mission terminals for certain types of missions and run to them. How are you getting from town to town? Shuttle? How do you get the right to ride the shuttle? Buy a ticket with credits? So where is this fledgling noob getting these credits to fly around?Come to think of it, where did the noob get all these surveying tools (you start with only2) Hmmm...I dunno. More exaggeration.
Lets move on... Per your logic, you are running 900cr missions...this means that you have to spend time looking for TWO missions that are BOTH 900cr AND the specific resource you found close to town. That takes several minutes. Then you have to run an estimated 800-1000m to the resource and back, comprising at least 20-30 minutes running there, surveying, and comingback. On the low end, this is at least 30 minutes per 2 missions, notincluding the time and money searching for and traveling tothe resource in the first place.In perfect circumstances with no set up time, we are talking a MAXIMUM of 4 missions an hour (30 minutes per 2), and even this number is very exaggerated. Not to mention that even at theexaggerated and abysmally low number of 30 minutes per 2 missions, it still takes you over 6 hours of continuous play just to be able to afford your first day of harvesting.
There is no way it takesless than aday to earn the money for a "fleet" of harvesters, let alone a day to get the money to run them.
Quote:
blah blah CH blah blah BH whine whine waaaa
What the hell does this have to do with anything. Droids can't solo anything. Hell, even if you double droid power to the prenerf probot they would still die against anything higher than CL15 or so. This isn't unbalancing...its weak.
Besides that you totally skipped over the following (I will repeat it for your benefit):
"It will not be unbalancing for the player to have a droid because: (a) the player gets no experience for the things the droid kills, and (b) the players is going to die if they buy a droid before weapons and armor because the devs are making all mobs in the game perodically break off attacks on pets and go after the master."
Because of no experience benefit and the greatly increased danger of death, droids are worthless to noobs. If any mobs your droid attacks automatically attack you, and you have no weapon skills or armor to protect you, what good is a droid? If you get no experience, what good is the droid? NOTE: Before you respond to this remember (1) droid can't kill mobs < CL15 and (2)your noob is making an alleged 45-60k a day from harvesters. Again why ishaving adroid any more unbalancing than anything else he can do as a noob?
Quote:
But PLing at least involves some risk and actually builds the combat skills necessary. The noob would still have to be certed for the powerful weapons as he leveled. You can't necessarily stop PLing, but that's another discussion entirely.
Oh so now you decide to use logic and realism? Well Mr. Smarty Pants, I will have you know that a guild weaponsmithgave me one of each of the pikeman weapons that there are certifications for, each as powerful as he could make them, I grouped with a pikemen for instant training, and worked quickly through the ranks. As you are trying to argue...preparation = you can do anything.
You also might like to know that weapon certs are NOT linear. Lower cert. weapons made with advanced componentsare MUCH more powerful than high cert weapons. If you look at the certs for marksman weapons for example, the best rifle is the DLT20a (first cert you get in rifle block one), the best carbine is theDH17 (first cert you get in block one), and the best pistol is the scout blaster (second cert you get in block 2). In other words, you need only introductory certs to get the most powerful weapons. If you are arguing that certs prevent anything, you are wrong.
Risk? I never died. Risky huh?
Quote:
Uncalled for, especially since you're just wrong. Just because you never figured out how to make money efficiently doesn't mean other people haven't. Availability of money is not the universal limitation you seem to think it is.
Moneyhas to be a limitation...why else would you post here with facts that I have shown to be totally exaggerated, unsupported, and unrealistic. If it were no limitation, you wouldn't need to resort to this gibberish to prove your unprovable point.
Please stop trolling here and move to the Jedi forum. I hear there is lots of speculation and exaggeration there, and I am trying to accomplish something productive here.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
My point is that droids ARE currently underpowered (same or even less useful than the CL 10 pets) and we NEED stronger combat droids (to sell). The ONLY thing that will kill the market is a selfish desire to have combat droids that only we can use.
As for combat droids being as powerful as CH pets. Please let me remind you that this will never happen. Devs know as well as we do that putting CHs into the game with high creature level, powerful pets was the worst mistake they could have made.There is no thing in game that is more imbalancing that CH pets,and CHs are going to be systematically nerfed throughtout the life of the game. Devs will not make that mistake twice by making us another, just as powerful, CH class. If you think this is an option you need to go live with Mickey Mouse in the big blue castle (fantasy land).
At most, we will get one, MAYBE two combat droids. Niether will be very strong. You have 2 choices:
(1) Droids are sellable to everyone. We get the benefit of selling these droids to others, as well as a combat droid benefit of being able to wield 2 to 3 reasonably powerful droids (whereas non-DEs can only have one).
-or-
(2) Combat droids are not sellable to everyone. They are also not very powerful. Devs won't give us the power we asked for, and we shot ourselves in the foot by asking only for DE-only droids. We still suck, and the half of us that actually want to do the thing we are designed for (crafting) still have no market.
You make the call...I think the choice is obvious.
I think perhaps you have not been paying attention.
And please don't misquote me and not read the other things I've said in the same post.
We have no selfish desire to have combat droids that only we can use. We have NEVER said we want combat droids only we can use.
What has beenproposed is that BUILDING combat droids are HIGH level skills that not everyone can gain without mastering DE.
What has been proposed is that USING combat droids are skills placed in ONE branch of the DE skilltree.
So that DE's can build droids, and handlers can use droids, and the two do not interfere with each other.
THAT is what has been proposed.
NOT combat droids that no one else can use.
Please get the facts straight before trying to refute them.
I've actually read the CH revisions, and some of the discussions that have gone on in the CH forum to gain an understanding of the changes that are coming for them.
What I've been saying is that if droids equal creatures, and changes (nerfs) are made to BOTH professions equally, then no one will be under or over powered. We will be EQUAL. And if a player wants to take a droid instead of a creature, then they can do that.
If droids are less powerful than creatures, then not that many people will buy droids. Most players in combat ONLY care about killing things. If creatures are more powerful, then they will buy creatures, NOT droids.
If droids are more powerful than creatures, then people will buy droids instead. And there will be balance issues if one entity type is stronger than another entity type.
I think there's another option that you forgot to mention:
(3) Combat droids are sellable to everyone. Droids equal creatures in strength. We didn't ask for DE-only combat droids but that's what we got. DE 'handler' skills allow everyone to use different levels of combat droids.