Droid Engineer Archive
Thread: DEs and DEA Admins Rally To ME!!! Sample Announcement Regarding the Droid Invasion and Hybrid Plan
I'm not excited about these.
Some of my customers are however.
The Entertainer Module is exciting to a friend who is a true entertainer (not the AFK sort)
Barkers for a buddy who is a wholesale weaponsmith (Shabitz on Flurry. Quick plug)
I want more modules then this though. This cannont/should not be the end all be all final list of new modules we will get.
/bow
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
TK
Not to rain on your 'Thunderheart-esqu' call for a reality check here, but the fact of life is that DE has been nerfed in Pub 7, and it looks perilously like under-delivering in Pub 8.
I don't know enough about Publish 8 to be concerned right now. I need to focus on Publish 7 right now...
And...it's better to live in reality than in fantasy-land, with regard to development, Shian. I know that it's not fun but it is what it is (race ipsa locquitor). What I do not want to do is be unrealistic about our future. That won't help any of us.
Now, this has upset a lot of DE's, and I should think by now we all realize it has also upset thousands of non-DE too.
So, Pub9 is scheduled for the Jedi Revamp..ok cool.. but never ever forget the infamous quote from JustG regarding DE being the focus for January....and we got focus (if it can truly be called focus) only in March.
2 months adrift...2 whole months. So why is Jedi so sacrosanct that they cannot also suffer a small delay in order to rectify the glaring shortcomings of this last publish, and what I for one expect to be shortcomings in Pub 8?
We don't even know much about Publish 8, Shian. I know you're frustrated...but let's try to focus on the situation at hand. And that's what is going on with Publish 7.
In short, time can be made for the Hybrid Plan,...
With all due respect, you have no basis to make this claim. We don't know how difficult it will/would be to code this, debug it, balance it, get it to TC, retest and re-debug, etc.
...and for more extensive utility which players will actually want to buy. Nowhere is it cast in stone that schedules cannot be made to slip as required.
Yup...I'd agree with this. However, what we agree (or not) with doesn't necessarily chart the course that the Devs will follow, Shian. If only it were that easy. They have to be concerned about the other professions and the myriad of other things that need attention in the game.
Add to that the proven ability of SOE to multitask (see vast non DE related content in what was portrayed as a DE focussed Pub 7) and you can see there is no reason to suppose the Hybrid plan could only be worked on after publish 10.
We simply do not know this. It's pure conjecture on your part...
or to put it more simply, they underdelivered (the reason does not matter anymore) and like any company who does that they have a duty to correct that situation.
They have no such "duty". We would like them to do this, yes.
No part of DE is just required to roll over and 'take it'..so why give in so easily?
Uhhh...what are you thinking that we are giving in on, Shian? Really? I ask in all seriousness.
Supping at the Dev's table is not good for you...remember always where you come from.
Yup...I do. I'm sure the Dev team will be very apt to totally alter everything based on a few good DE-related 'Breakdowns'. ...............not.
Don't think that being blue means that I'm toothless, Shian. However, I think that there are many here that are quite simply unrealistic about what is possible. I simply try to make sure that we work to get the best possible outcome that is actually realistic to expect and to receive.
If it was only DE asking, well I think we would have little chance, but its not..it is also 1000's of other players who all want to see at least some move to add new droids to the game in a combat capable role.
Yes...we all want them, Shian. I know, I know...
For right now, please......................................................relax.
There's NOTHING that is going to change in the really, really short term. I'm working to get the Hybrid proposal moving forward but getting 'down' does not help. I know you may not like to hear that from me..but it is still the case.
Respectfully,
TheRealTK421 wrote:
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
TK
Not to rain on your 'Thunderheart-esqu' call for a reality check here, but the fact of life is that DE has been nerfed in Pub 7, and it looks perilously like under-delivering in Pub 8.
I don't know enough about Publish 8 to be concerned right now. I need to focus on Publish 7 right now...
And...it's better to live in reality than in fantasy-land, with regard to development, Shian. I know that it's not fun but it is what it is (race ipsa locquitor). What I do not want to do is be unrealistic about our future. That won't help any of us.
Now, this has upset a lot of DE's, and I should think by now we all realize it has also upset thousands of non-DE too.
So, Pub9 is scheduled for the Jedi Revamp..ok cool.. but never ever forget the infamous quote from JustG regarding DE being the focus for January....and we got focus (if it can truly be called focus) only in March.
2 months adrift...2 whole months. So why is Jedi so sacrosanct that they cannot also suffer a small delay in order to rectify the glaring shortcomings of this last publish, and what I for one expect to be shortcomings in Pub 8?
We don't even know much about Publish 8, Shian. I know you're frustrated...but let's try to focus on the situation at hand. And that's what is going on with Publish 7.
In short, time can be made for the Hybrid Plan,...
With all due respect, you have no basis to make this claim. We don't know how difficult it will/would be to code this, debug it, balance it, get it to TC, retest and re-debug, etc.
...and for more extensive utility which players will actually want to buy. Nowhere is it cast in stone that schedules cannot be made to slip as required.
Yup...I'd agree with this. However, what we agree (or not) with doesn't necessarily chart the course that the Devs will follow, Shian. If only it were that easy. They have to be concerned about the other professions and the myriad of other things that need attention in the game.
Add to that the proven ability of SOE to multitask (see vast non DE related content in what was portrayed as a DE focussed Pub 7) and you can see there is no reason to suppose the Hybrid plan could only be worked on after publish 10.
We simply do not know this. It's pure conjecture on your part...
or to put it more simply, they underdelivered (the reason does not matter anymore) and like any company who does that they have a duty to correct that situation.
They have no such "duty". We would like them to do this, yes.
No part of DE is just required to roll over and 'take it'..so why give in so easily?
Uhhh...what are you thinking that we are giving in on, Shian? Really? I ask in all seriousness.
Supping at the Dev's table is not good for you...remember always where you come from.
Yup...I do. I'm sure the Dev team will be very apt to totally alter everything based on a few good DE-related 'Breakdowns'. ...............not.
Don't think that being blue means that I'm toothless, Shian. However, I think that there are many here that are quite simply unrealistic about what is possible. I simply try to make sure that we work to get the best possible outcome that is actually realistic to expect and to receive.
If it was only DE asking, well I think we would have little chance, but its not..it is also 1000's of other players who all want to see at least some move to add new droids to the game in a combat capable role.
Yes...we all want them, Shian. I know, I know...
For right now, please......................................................relax.
There's NOTHING that is going to change in the really, really short term. I'm working to get the Hybrid proposal moving forward but getting 'down' does not help. I know you may not like to hear that from me..but it is still the case.
This is not a flame; its an expression of one DEs desires...
TK, I think there's an important difference between being realistic about the devs development schedule and being constructive and enthusiastic in our demands for an adjustment to that schedule. I appreciate that you are trying to keep our expectations low so we are not disappointed, but at the same time we need you to be and ADVOCATE for us on the plan and not stifle our enthusiasm for it. I do beleive you ar pushing for the plan with the devs, but I would prefer that you not put a damper on our efforts to be constructive and forward-thinking here.
We've had 19 pages of discussion on the plan, most of it very constructive. Ranting has been at a minumum. We have tried to work up a plan within the devs game limits and we just want our voices to be heard. No one is flaming the devs on the Hybrid plan when we say "Pls implement it soon! We want combat droid in the game in a fair and balanced way such as the one we propose!"
Managing expectations is one thing; curbing our enthusiasm is another. The devs have changed their schedule before; chef got a boost before DEs did and we were promised a fix first.It is our hope that they will see the positive energy poured into this and say, "yes we will implement this soon" or "yes, we will implement something like this soon." I think the hybrid plan is a solution for the devs to the widepsread discontent on the "invasion."
/bow
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
This is not a flame; its an expression of one DEs desires...
TK, I think there's an important difference between being realistic about the devs development schedule and being constructive and enthusiastic in our demands for an adjustment to that schedule. I appreciate that you are trying to keep our expectations low so we are not disappointed, but at the same time we need you to be and ADVOCATE for us on the plan and not stifle our enthusiasm for it.
Hey...I'm as enthusiastic as the next guy. That's not the point. I can only do so much, Sodan. Ultimately, there does come a point where it's up to the Devs to move forward in some way.
I do beleive you ar pushing for the plan with the devs, but I would prefer that you not put a damper on our efforts to be constructive and forward-thinking here.
Nope...just trying to keep it real, that's all. I am staying the course on the proposal to push it, Sodan. You can't see it...but I am.
We've had 19 pages of discussion on the plan, most of it very constructive. Ranting has been at a minumum. We have tried to work up a plan within the devs game limits and we just want our voices to be heard. No one is flaming the devs on the Hybrid plan when we say "Pls implement it soon! We want combat droid in the game in a fair and balanced way such as the one we propose!"
By the way, if possible, it would likely help a ton if we revised it to a ver. 3, to roll in all the current variants, concerns, issues, etc. If you want help on that, lemme know and I'll dig in a bit (aside from other Corr. stuff I need to stay on top of...).
Managing expectations is one thing; curbing our enthusiasm is another.
I want to be clear...
I'm not trying tocurb enthusiasm over this. It IS a strong plan with 'legs'. At ths same time, I can't have DEs and non-DEs alike working under the unrealistic assumption that the proposal is done deal for Publish 8.
That's not fair and right to all of you either. I'd rather deal straight with you as much as I caninstead of wear rose-colored glasses.I will continue to champion this...and, as I've stated, the proposalhas already been seen by the Devs.
Please...don't forget that Runesabre has stated that theydo want to get these >CL10 droids into the game (he agreed with us) that doing a 'metallic CH' wasn't really looking good to them either.
The devs have changed their schedule before; chef got a boost before DEs did and we were promised a fix first.It is our hope that they will see the positive energy poured into this and say, "yes we will implement this soon" or "yes, we will implement something like this soon." I think the hybrid plan is a solution for the devs to the widepsread discontent on the "invasion."
Yup. That's one way to spin it for them. I'm still encouraged by the plan, Sodan. I encourage ALL DEs to read it, try to add to it and revise it to build the best possible plan that we can. Getting info in there that will help it to be balanced and uniformly accepted (to the degree that is possible) by DEs is important too.
If we speak with a one voice to say.......
"WE WANT THIS...!!!"
...then we will be more likely to get it. When?
I can't answer that.....I simply do not know.
Respectfully,
Somebody tell me something, why can the Devs not come up with a useful and meaningful purpose for droids and DEs??? This is such an easy job. Stop being obtuse and narrowminded and realize that direct combat is only a small part droids can play.
Make droids integral and required for crafting, for mining, for navigation when traveling, along with ALL aspects of combat! The possibilities are endless! Instead of stupid clothing and armor attachments, allow droids to increase various skills for different professions. For example, a droid to increase "to hit" % for Riflemen, a droid that places a small shield to protect a brawler, a droid that creates diversions to help DEs sample an animal for DNA, a droid that improves experimentation sucesses, a droid suite that when several droids are together, they add more bonuses to crafting skills, a droid that maintains a factory and increases production rates, a droid that aids in hunting and tracking for Rangers, a droid that improves surveying range or sensitivity for miners. How about general abiliites like auto-pilot when in a vehicle? or increased speed in vehicles when the droid is riding with the user??? My gosh, the ideas and possibilities are so easy and endless. WHY ARE DROIDS RELEGATED TO STUPID, USELESS TASKS LIKE AD BARKING AND HAVING R2 DROIDS INVOLVED IN COMBAT??!?
The Devs have shown no creativity or ingenuity with one of Star Wars' staples,droids and those who make them! I'm noteven a DE andI've been waiting patiently for droids to become the integral part they should'veplayed from the beginning. We are no closer to that than we were when this game came out. I have a bunch of freaking droid frames in my lab to "simulate" aworkshop environment where droids are present and helping with weapon crafting and maintaining thetools of thetrade. Why do I use up valuable storage spaces for items that donothing? Cause it's such an integral part of SW that aroom or environment without them is not truely "Star Wars"
It would be nice if the Devs actually made them useful and placed the importance Lucas intended them to have in the SW universe. 
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Nothing warms my heart more than two doods standing in the way of what 90% of the community supports. Right on brothers! Go, go, go! We love the status quo!
90%?
No way. Only somerhing like 12% of the community actually posts on these boards.
/bow
Shian_Tavkin wrote:
TK
The one thing I won't do at this time is relax..not a hope.
I post a forward looking, positive, constructive and enthusiastic post and I get a TK breakdown laced with valium in response.
It's not 'valium', Shian. It's an attempt to keep things in perspective, that's all. Yes....there are a lot of things that are not where we'd want them. I agree. Most of these are already in process in terms of me getting Dev attention, etc. on them.
I know more about multitasking teams of developers in a complex IT environment than I would wish on anyone, and all I am trying to say is that while its laudable that you try to set minimal expectations, it's also laudable to have enthusiasts demonstrating that there always is a way if the committment from the Devs is there. If you dont have that then the liklihood is that people sigh in resignation and accept the (in this case poor) set of cards they have been dealt. It doesn't have to be like that. You, me, Kollos, Sodan and oh you know who I mean..its quite a list.. understand these things, but there are a ton of people come into and out of these boards every day who we wont see here again for weeks, and I want to make sure that nobody doing that goes away with the impression that it's a done deal and it's all over.
Nope...it's not over, not by a long shot. I hope you do understand my position in this, Shian. I need to push for the DE communities issues and such. But, I can't do so in a way that gives false hope. It's very important, and needed, for us to get behind the proposal. I just got done writing something to TH on the Corr. boards to get more info on where this stands.
I suppose the valium you hear is an attempt not to count my chickens before they have been hatched. I don't want to give DEs hopes if I cannot say with 187% certainty that there is reason to hope. Right now, I just haven't heard info back on this yet. Once I know...you'll know. Until then, the caution in my posts stay.
Your job, as you well know, involves communicating this enthusiasm to the Devs and I'm certain you are doing that already. I could take wild guesses what is going on at SOE right now but I wont because then I'd be speculating.
Well...I'm sure they are concerned that we will waffle, yet again. That's an expected response, given what occurred in the past. I have already pointed them to the proposal and it's been read. There is, apparently, still some amount of 'talk' about it internally (or just the issue of >CL10 combat droids in general).
The issue is NOT dead..and there is (I believe) enthusiasm to get these droids in the game. They know players want them. They know we want them. I think they are worried a bit on things going 'wrong' again.
That's why revising and tweaking the proposal to the best place possible is our best move right now. In addition, getting a unified shout from the DEs that..."Yes! THIS (/emote points to proposal) is what we want!!"
is so important.
But back to your asking me to relax..nope. Once a body of people relax, you can bet that any group of understaffed and overworked developers (every IT department in the world) will breath a sigh of relief and say 'Good, they are quiet so they are happy' and MOVE ON to more pressing matters. It is just the way it works.
Yes...I guess you're right. So...errr....un-relax?
So, let me keep my enthusiasm, even let me have my dreams...I don't think I need you to tell me what is realistic or not, I'm sure I can work that out for myself. All I need you to do is keep communication going. Certainly not try to pour valium down my throat..
Okay...I'll keep the information flowing. It doesn't mean that I won't try to deal straight with all of you. I happen to think you deserve nothing less. I'm still calling 'it' like I see it.
So, nice and friendly, stop pouring, especially to me and the others who know full well the SOE story. I know its not a done deal for Pub 8, but I also know the morale of the DE's needs to be kept up, and hope is the only thing that can do that.
Oh...you forgot...info and ideas for mo' betta utility modules.(yes, that was something of an 'announcement' everyone. I need ideas)
Pointing out that there is realistic hope is not wrong. If we had no hope the forum would be empty now wouldn't it?
You DO have "realistic hope". For what, I can't say yet...but you do.
So..the short version is you do your job and I'll keep hoping and saying things are possible Ok? The bottle to me is half full, not half empty and I dont want to change that attitude thank you very much.
We will progress, but not through relaxing, and on that we may just have to disagree.
Well..."relax" isn't really what I meant, in the way you're presenting it...but I know what you meant.
Respectfully,
Deidre_DE wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Nothing warms my heart more than two doods standing in the way of what 90% of the community supports. Right on brothers! Go, go, go! We love the status quo!
90%?
No way. Only somerhing like 12% of the community actually posts on these boards.
Thanks for your participation. The meeting gets decided by those who show up. And if you read the original post and the replies, you'd see that the WHOLE POINT of this thread is to broaden the scope of people who are aware of the plan INCLUDING by emailing people in-game through server-specific Droid Engineer Associations.
What are YOU doing to increase participation?
"90% of respondents to the proposal (thus far)", I guess.
Deidre_DE wrote:
90%?
No way. Only somerhing like 12% of the community actually posts on these boards.
No, it's not scientific or all-inclusive. But, we probably couldn't get that anyway.
/bow
Respectfully,
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Deidre_DE wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Nothing warms my heart more than two doods standing in the way of what 90% of the community supports. Right on brothers! Go, go, go! We love the status quo!
90%?
No way. Only somerhing like 12% of the community actually posts on these boards.
Thanks for your participation. The meeting gets decided by those who show up. And if you read the original post and the replies, you'd see that the WHOLE POINT of this thread is to broaden the scope of people who are aware of the plan INCLUDING by emailing people in-game through server-specific Droid Engineer Associations.
What are YOU doing to increase participation?
/emote agrees with the proposal. How's that for a start? Additionally, I have been contacting DEs in game, when I can find them.
I did read the post, the replies, and many of your other threads. My post was in response to one statement, not a body of work.
Deidre_DE wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Deidre_DE wrote:
Sodan-droiddreamer wrote:
Nothing warms my heart more than two doods standing in the way of what 90% of the community supports. Right on brothers! Go, go, go! We love the status quo!
90%?
No way. Only somerhing like 12% of the community actually posts on these boards.
Thanks for your participation. The meeting gets decided by those who show up. And if you read the original post and the replies, you'd see that the WHOLE POINT of this thread is to broaden the scope of people who are aware of the plan INCLUDING by emailing people in-game through server-specific Droid Engineer Associations.
What are YOU doing to increase participation?
/emote agrees with the proposal. How's that for a start? Additionally, I have been contacting DEs in game, when I can find them.
I did read the post, the replies, and many of your other threads. My post was in response to one statement, not a body of work
And my reply was to remind you that we are trying to be inclusive here. But we will NEVER escape that not everyone reads the boards. We can't just quit because of it.
Your help is MUCH appreciated in getting more people to review, comment and vote on the proposal.