Droid Engineer Archive

>What is Star Wars and what is not ?<

Everything you've ever seen in a SW movie, and everything you've ever read in a SW extended universe book. Every droid you ever saw in the corner of a wide screen for a few seconds. And lots you've never heard of before.

SWG can pick up and elaborate on any SW thing. SWG has the right to expand the SW expanded universe as well.

Yes there are things that would not, be star wars. Darth Vader could not announce he was redirecting the Imperial military budget, to create petting zoos in each and every city. After which he will fund the Jedi academies.

But I think SWG is free to pick and emphasize what they want. You dont have to keep the exact same ratio, of Jedi, Creatures, Droids, Wookies, Wamp rats, as episode IV, statistically had.

There are many ways to explain why the sample or impression we got from SW IV, may not really have been representive of 'the real' SW world.

But mainly SWG has an artistic license to take the general world of SWG and make a particular slant on it for the purpose of making a fun 'MMOLRPG'.

I think it would be quite acceptible to give everyone a jedi slot. To have as many creature pets and droids as anyone wants. Etc.

~'Jedi were scarce in this period'~ Well, maby it was just the 'known Jedi' that were scarce. Maby many Jedi did not commonly report to Yoda and co. Because if the pretty famous Jedi bunch got caught. Then they didnt want the pool of hidden Jedi talent to be gone as well and hence all hope for the galaxy. How many secret and little known heroic things were these hidden Jedi accomplishing that never made it to the silver screen ?

~'No one ever towed a rancor thru town in SW IV'~ Well not at the very same moment that Luke and crew were passing thru. 5 mins earlyer, or 5 mins later ? My guess is as good as yours.

~'Combat droids were illegal during this time period'~ Yes, True. But it certainly doesnt mean they didnt exist or werent used by any faction/group. Again just because you didnt happen to see somthing in the movie, doesnt mean it doesnt exist in the SW universe. Yes if some imperial wants to arrest you, and your carrying an unconsealed combat droid. Your Busted. But you could take an R2 unit with a combat laser anywhere. And even an obvious combat droid could be used almost anywhere. I see an obvious combat droid as another example of contraban.

Even so, if it was determined that having combat droids be treated as contraban, sapped alot of fun, balance, whatever out of the game. Its not nessissary to fully express every last principle that ever showed itself in the extended universe. Its a game. The main drift has to be right or why call it Star Wars. But if your going to pick nits, No MMOLRPG can faithfully represent , Any 'world'.

I think 'overt' (obvious) combat droids should be contraban. I think we must carefully balance how we deal with contraban. But its not somthing I must have. And its not worth wrecking some other more importan facet of the game, if they both can't coexist.

So far i see nothing that budges my opinion away from a seperate profession. I agree, it should be DE friendly, branching off the engineering tree. But any form of cert still feels very unexciting, and a waste of future potential for droids.

Because no one can answer the balance argument effectively, i don't think that DE's will becomesole master of higher end droids. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a combat/crafting hybrid profession. But to give you an example, take a look at smuggler. There's one tree devoted to crafting there. Let's say they expand that to two trees for DE. It looks to me like DE would be losing much of it's ability to craft. I'd rather see DE become a successfulcrafting profession in it's own right, with full experimentation that actually matters to the outcome of the product.

Also, i'd consider the DE profession framework to be pretty well set in stone at this point in the game. I don't really see a massive reworking of the profession happening anytime soon. My guess would be that the profession is operating much like the dev vision for it indicates it should be. Bio eng and Droid eng have too many similiarities to make me think otherwise. Both professions have the potential to create mobs for other players, and to a lesser degree, for themselves. I know many hate the BE comparison, but it's there.

>And its not worth wrecking some other more importan facet of the game, if they both can't coexist.<

I mean, lose the contraban aspect, not the combat droids. To me combat droids Are a more important facet of the game.

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Jenden wrote:

If you want to get more, you have to give something up.

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So far, we don't have anything to give.
We paid the skillpoint, we want what we've paid for.

AFAIK musician and dancers don't have any combat advantage, still they DO have a role in combat. So does weaponsmith and armorsmith and chef,...

That isn't giving people free skill, that is giving what they have paid for: Something USEFULL.

I agree that we need more useful things, and I'd rather that be in the form of utility modules/combat support modules. They may even be able to get away with adding some very minimal combat capabilities to the profession without having to take something out, but it would kill any non-combat potential we had. There have been too many great ideas on these forums to give them up to be yet another of the plentiful combat professions, and a sad one at that.

>If someone wants combat skills they can take a combat profession. The only reason you could have for giving non-combat profressions combat skills "so they could at least do a little combat" is if they couldn't take a combat profession in conjunction with their non-combat profession.<

You arnt getting my point. Maby I didnt make iit clear.

If someone wants to be a rifleman, or a creature handler. They can do so and fill out the rest of thier skills, to be a competive combat 'player'. Theyt can have a chance in PvP. They can be usefull to thier buddies ion quests. They can adventure.

Someone who wants to be a DE, or AS, or Master musician. Cant! do anything with the rest of thier skillpoints to make them ANYWHERE NEAR as powerfull as a pure combat char. Sure they could get Pistol 4, or maby master rifleman. (I havnt counted it all out) But I KNOW they ARNT going to have a chance to compete with someone else who has the 97 (or however many, points they spent of thier crafts) To Spend on OTHER COMBAT RELATED SKILLS !

You want to 'Roll Play' a CH or BH. You can HUNT, PvP, QUEST ADVENTURE, etc. You want to 'Role Play' a DE or Dancer You CANT COMPETE ! you can get master marksman and/or whatever but you are butt wipe.

You understand ? A master DE with all his non DE skillpoints spent on the optimal combat mix. Will NOT, be COMPETITIVE with a master Rifleman, who spends the rest of thier points on combat too. Comprendo ?

Its like the guy who has 97,145, whatever, More Skillpoints to spend on COMBAT has MORE CHECKERS ! SEE ? Like if you were to duel them they'd win. Or to PvP, or to try to gather Krayt Pearls or Holos, They'ed WIN. Some people actually care about stuff like that.

Crafting and entertainment checkers are more like potato chipes or ritz crackers or somthing that someone got on the board game. They arnt 'real checkers' you cant jump the other guys checkers with them. They're just to eat.

Now if your a 'pure craftsman' this is fine with YOU. But Many of us are NOT 'pure craftsmen'.

You See that thing ? that if you have 97 (or more like 145 for 'real' DEs really) LESS points to spend on COMBAT STUFF. You arnt going to COMBAT as well ?

Now one can say, maby crafters shouldnt combat as well ? maby not. But getting ZERO combat ability for your efforts, results in Not a Player. Not somebody sombody else wants in thier quest group! Not sombody that has a kreatlebugs chance in the Great Pit of Kartoon, to win a PvP fight! Not someone thats going to find many Krayt Pearls!

You go ahead and "take a combat profession" if you want. But let the rest of us Live!

Just because YOU dont care about somthing, Does Not, make it not worth caring about.

reguardless How much 'Balance' you put in a game. There will be those who are pure combat. there will be those who are pure craftsmen, or entertainers, etc. There will be those who spend thier points cleverly and Are a bit more 'powerfull'.

If you want a game where (ala Monopoly) you choose the Race Car (Commando or whatever) you win. you choose the Hat (Tailor, or whatever) you lose.

{but you can still run around the board cant you ? Its a Matter of TASTE. ALLOW, for others, of different Taste}

To some winning is PvP, to some the bank account. To others, maby thier Email count. Whatever. Combat abilities are somthing that should be within balance. Just as the ability to aquire wealth.

Boeda,

I don't agree with you.

Even with combat droid capabilities, there is no reason a DE should be as good as an elite combat profession.

An elite combatprofession with a combat droid should have an advantage vs same elite combatprof without droid, but there is now way a combat droid alone should be enough.

Boeda,

yes, someone who invested all their skill points in a combat profession should beat someone who has only invested half. You can build droids, they can't, so its not like your skill points are down the drain. If all you care about is combat and being powerful, then why are you a DE in the first place? Do you see any indication that we are a combat profession? I understand what you are saying just fine, I just don't think it applies to SWG at all. This game is not only about combat, it is an online RPG, this implies many different player styles. Many people's play style does not involve combat, so why would you gimp their professions (yes, adding combat abilities does mean something on the crafting side present or potential has to give) when there's already plenty of professions out there where you can go kill as much stuff as you want and be important in a group or whatever it is that makes you happy.

>So you think a Master Dancer that dabbles in marskmanship should be a contender against a Master Bounty Hunter or Commando?<

I think, say, a master Dancer that has spent all thier remaining skillpoints towards combat proficiency. Say Master TK, or whatever/else they can afford. Should be, say, ~90%(or so maby more) as strong in combat as a pure fighter. By getting say 85% of the skillpoint value of the Master Dancer in combat perks, And 100% of the direct combat skills. Master Dancer perks could be like ranged/melee evaision perks (they have some already I hear) And maby some creature empathy thing. (limited creature pet cert) (one Master Dancer I knew Quit after the CH nerf partly cause she couldnt keep her pet snake (with its combat abilities) Maby even melee attack bonuses. (that would force dancers to UA to get all thier power. But its intuitive)

>My template will be master De, and master Swordsman. I'll be just as effective at combat as most every other combatant, while also getting the ability to craft droids.<

No, unless you get some inherant Droid Certs or somthing else you willbe 97-145 skillpoints weaker in combat than someone else that bought thier droids and spent the other points on other combat related skills.

>I'm not understanding why your seeing combat as the entirety of the game. <

Just that it is, somthing that is, important to many crafters/entertainers/'non combat classes'. Just as bank balance and a fancy house/furniture is important to many 'combats'.

Im not trying to force crafters/entertainers to combat. I like the Idea of pure crafters. I like that they will allways have advantages as pure crafters over those who try to do both. I just dont want to be force out of the many combat related aspects of SWG,just because I fancy playing a DE/master dancer/whatever.

>But if i pick up, say master rifleman, i become every bit as deadly as that bounty hunter or commando. <

NO, I dont think so.

>Even with combat droid capabilities, there is no reason a DE should be as good as an elite combat profession.<

I do see why a pure combat profession should have some edge. I just want someone that sees DE, Dancer, Whatever, as thier Image, thier Role, in SWG. To have a Chance, to compete. To if they spend thier every other skillpoint on optimal combat choices. To have a chance at 'lucking out' in a PvP conflict. To have a substantial value to a hunting fellowship (compared to pure combats) To be able to visit Jabbas Hut, etc. And adventure without being 'carried' by a rare mercyfull group.

>If all you care about is combat and being powerful, then why are you a DE in the first place?<

When I was choosing what to be, I saw DE. Thats Me ! It was 'not finished' they said. But I wanted to make cool High tech droids. I wanted driods to give me abilities to fill in for some of the skills I wouldnt be able to have. I wanted fighting droid pets. Same if I chose WS, or AS, I would want to be able to 'adventure' as well. there are Entertainers who feel the same. They want to be a heart stealing dancer, or a popular musician. But they Also care about 'adventure' ! They want to be a kick butt TK, or a mow em down carbeener.

>I understand what you are saying just fine, I just don't think it applies to SWG at all. <

Lukes old pappy started as DE, I think. must have been master arts and at least some DE. He became a proficient fighter and I think he didnt have to surrender his DE skillpoints. Not to mention his politition skills, and his 'FS' Skills.

If we werent forced to a single char slot. I wouldnt be here writing this. Id have my DE, and my CH/combat 'adventurer' already. Maby they are trying to sell multiple accounts per player. But I dont think its working at least not on me. I know many who have left that wouldnt if they had multiple char slots. I think they would make drastically better profits if they just limited the 'lot's per account. Multi slots could even share the same bank account. BUt we do have the 'SCS'. In any other game there was no problem forcing crafters to be pure crafters. Any Player that wanted could still be both. thru 'alt' chars.

Im getting a bit tired here. I could crate upo some droids and surrender DE. But ,, I want to 'wait' till the 'droid evaision' happens. I'd be waiting anyway for my DE pets. I feel very frustrated not being able to do very much else, in the mean time. Another thing that would help is a 'Bicycle effect' (once you know how to ride a bicycle you never forget) Like I could surrender DE, and relearn the boxes I surrendered at 10% of the original cost.

I may not be here in two months to benefit or bane from the decisions on these issues anyway. But, I still push my point here. If you not going to allow players to have multiple chars to express multiple role play 'needs'. (skitzo's are every where!And they have thier own team of kibizters, right there with them(g)) . Then let your single chars have that breadth.

hey how about this......

someone who has mastered a non-combat profession gets a new attack move called the Vulcan Neck Pinch, this allows you to incapciate anyone with one move. they should also get an invincibility shield that allows them to not take any damage when attacked.

how about that?

Boeda, you keep talking as if your talking for the majority of players. Just because you feel that way doesn't necessarily mean everyone else feels the same. If you really want to argue this go for it, but it doesn't belong on the DE boards.